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DrZ123

Leica T? Or Not...

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I wish you the best when the newborn arrives!!!!!!!!  How exciting!!!

Thanks! 

 

I just am afraid I am going to photograph it with my Sony Rx-100 M2 and regret not having a nicer camera to take some more stylized shots

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Never mind the camera. Use what you feel comfortable and - above all - confident with. The most desirable camera is a poor choice for unique moments in life when you are not utterly and completely familiar with how it handles in every detail.

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Never mind the camera. Use what you feel comfortable and - above all - confident with. The most desirable camera is a poor choice for unique moments in life when you are not utterly and completely familiar with how it handles in every detail.

I second this.  The T is a great little camera. Whatever you end up with.....do lots of photo taking of anything and everything before doing critical moments.  It will make a difference.  People who just go buy the most expensive camera thinking the camera will do the work will be disappointed.

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I would definitely urge you to try the T before buying to see whether you get along with it. The Sony RX100 is a very capable camera which will give you great results and is more than adequate to take pictures of your new baby. As pop says, being comfortable with the camera is the most important thing. Once the all-important first shots of your baby are captured, you may want to consider an M system (even second hand), which holds its value much better than a T, or a Q (which I don't have), which from all accounts is much faster. Both will likely give you better results than a T.

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I own - and love - the T (with T and M lenses and the EVF), and have owned many D-Lux models before.  I have also spent some time with the Q - which is an amazing camera - but with a 28mm lens.

 

I also just got back from spending the weekend with my 8 week old grandson - with my T and bevy of T and M lenses.

 

Here are my 2 cents worth of advice-

 

The T with M lenses have beautiful image quality - but nailing manual focus with a moving child is very hit and miss - unless you stop the lens down and use zone focus - but then you may possibly be faced with motion blur in low light settings.  

 

The T's AF zoom hunts quite a bit in low light settings indoors, and even the 23mm doesn't nail low-light AF 100% of the time.  

 

It's basically a slower camera to operate for this purpose.  You will ultimately miss "the decisive moment" now and then, and may also frustrate your wife I fear.

 

I have also found that the T with M lenses is a bit quirky.  Firstly, as stated above in another post, you will need an EVF with manual focusing M lenses (that's not a quirk).  That EVF, however, freezes while an image taken with an M lens is being written, so you can't really burst shoot (which you may want to with a young expressive child).  Also, I have found that I have had to pull the battery to reset the camera when I am taking a lot of successive shots with M lenses.  Hence - it ends up being slow, and you may miss that decisive moment (a priceless kid's smile, etc...).

 

Don't get me wrong - I do love my T and have NO regrets.  For me, the ease of handling and superb image quality makes these niggles worth it - but my grandson lives 1,500 miles away - so I won't be shooting active kids too often...   Street and travel/landscape shooting is different than capturing priceless shots of your child (AF speed and shot-to-shot time are key for child photography I feel).

 

The Q is blazing fast - like WOW!!  However - you may find a 28mm lens to be very limiting for your purpose of shooting your new child.  You will want/need to get close to fill the frame with a child subject - and that will lend itself to facial distortions (like a cell phone camera has).  Of course, you can crop the full-frame images taken from afar like crazy - but as nice as the Q lens is (and it's a beauty), you won't get the same compression and Depth of Field as if you used a real 50mm Leica lens.  (Think about it, if you had to travel to an outing with your child to take photos of him/her, and had every focal length lens available to you - but you could only bring 1 lens - it probably wouldn't be a 28mm - because "people" photos taken with a 28mm are far less flattering).  I think this distortion/lens limitation would outweighs the stellar image quality - for me anyway...

 

The D-Lux on the other hand may be an optimal solution for you.  It has a lovely, versatile and very fast zoom lens, and the 1" sensor provides great resolution.  It is a fast-handling camera (with a built-in EVF) and you may find the zoom very useful for family photos - both for birthday parties, family gatherings, and family trips, etc...  I had the D-Lux 6 last, and I NEVER missed a shot - and the lens speed (f stop) was faster and ultimately more usable in low-light settings than the T's zoom, believe it or not).  The autofocus was very reliable too.  The output has that signature Leica look, and the JPG's render colors very similar to an M, T, or X.  

 

I have blown up D-Lux landscape photos to be very large (upsizing them with photshop) and that was with their earlier minuscule sensor version.  The 1" sensor is in a different (much better) league.

 

I also have a SONY RX100 (1" sensor), btw, which also has very impressive output and is pocketable - but I much prefer the D-Lux handling and JPG noise reduction and color rendering.  Every time I picked up the RX100 - I couldn't remember how to use it or the essential controls - the menu is so counter-intuitive.  It is also too small to handle as a real camera for me (and I am not a big guy).

 

The new D-Lux seems to be the best of both world's for a compact point-and-shoot.  It has a faster, wider zoom with a larger-enough sensor, fast and intuitive handling and full manual control.  

 

Photos with a 1" sensor can be cropped quite a bit btw - if you're not making wall-sized prints.  I wouldn't be too turned off by the small sensor size - considering all your requirements.  Most people would be hard-pressed to tell the difference between photos taken with a 1" sensor RX100 or D-Lux 109 and a "regular gas" (entry level) DSLR.  

 

When traveling with a child, including a car-seat and stroller and diaper bag etc, you may well prefer having a one-piece, smaller point-and-shoot to having to carry yet another bag filled with camera gear...

 

Separately, It looks like Leica is about to announce a *very* interesting interchangeable lens camera this year (with built-in optical/electronic viewfinder).  I read the patent from a link on another web site.  That's the one I have my eyes on.  The rumor is that it will take T and M lenses and will be announced later this year (for what rumors are worth.  The patent application seemed very real).  

 

Maybe you can get the D-Lux for now and then pass it down to your wife (since it's small and diaper-bag pocketable) or sell it for a portion of your spend.

 

I hope this is helpful.

 

Cheers

DGP

Edited by DGP

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I owned a T with two of their lenses and it was too slow for me with grand kids.  I now have a Q and love it.  It is fast enough for kids that won't sit still and highly accurate.  With 24mp and cropping ability plus better dynamic range and better high ISO ability it is just a great camera and don't forget the faster lens too.  By the way, unless you buy a used T be prepared to lose a lot of money on resale.  Used T's are available for around $1200 and the lenses for as little as $900.  This camera has not held value and selling it can take some time as it is not very popular.  The lenses are overpriced for what they offer in performance.  The Q lens is so sharp you have to take care not to cut yourself! 

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I owned a T with two of their lenses and it was too slow for me with grand kids.  I now have a Q and love it.  It is fast enough for kids that won't sit still and highly accurate.  With 24mp and cropping ability plus better dynamic range and better high ISO ability it is just a great camera and don't forget the faster lens too.  By the way, unless you buy a used T be prepared to lose a lot of money on resale.  Used T's are available for around $1200 and the lenses for as little as $900.  This camera has not held value and selling it can take some time as it is not very popular.  The lenses are overpriced for what they offer in performance.  The Q lens is so sharp you have to take care not to cut yourself! 

 

This is more or less what I was thinking when I started the thread about Q potentially killing the T system : http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/247977-will-the-q-stop-the-t-system/

About myself I'm waiting, photographing with M7 and X1 by now !

robert

Edited by robert blu

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So first you all swayed me toward the Q, and now I think I am going to wait and see what is released this fall!

 

Will use my Sony RX-100 M2 and Nikon D700 to capture the newborn in all of her glory!

 

Leica to come soon after hopefully though.

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I think you will congratulate yourself on your choice. For the months after the great event, your small one will not be all that mobile and, hence, available for practice with a new camera. 

 

My best wishes for the three of you.

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Smart decision!  

 

The Sony RX-100 really is amazing, as is the Nikon.  I really can't distinguish photos taken with the Sony from my Leica.  Ditto for the Nikon (which a good friend has, and shared photos with me).

 

Best wishes to you as your little girl is about to be born.

 

Enjoy every moment!  They grow up very fast...

 

Can't wait to see the photos.

 

Cheers!

DGP

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This is more or less what I was thinking when I started the thread about Q potentially killing the T system : http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/247977-will-the-q-stop-the-t-system/

About myself I'm waiting, photographing with M7 and X1 by now !

robert

The T and the Q is not for everyone.  Totally different cameras!  The T is a great interchangeable lens camera that is fun to shoot.  This subject has already been covered.  

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Guest VVJ

By the way, unless you buy a used T be prepared to lose a lot of money on resale.  Used T's are available for around $1200 and the lenses for as little as $900.  

 

Given that new bodies are available now for $1,628 the $1,200 is actually pretty good IMO...

 

Do you believe that the Q will do better once Leica announces a new interchangeable lens AF camera?  I would be very surprised...

 

And I can also guarantee you that you will not find the latest 2 zoom lenses for $900...

 

Besides that I believe the OP has made an excellent choice.

Edited by JorisV

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Firstly congrats!

I was in a somewhat similar situation as you, except for the fact that I already had the T but was deciding which camera to bring to the hospital. I settled eventually for my Olympus E-M10... 

Perhaps I can share with you what I was thinking of...

The surgery suite lighting is quite decent... but was worried that my T (23mm summicron) would have difficulty focusing on my child... also the doctor/nurse would be helping us take a family photo... wanted a system which is almost fail-safe to use... In the ward, lighting is not good...family and friends would be coming over.. my camera will be passed around to help take pictures... with all this in mind, I decided on my olympus which is easy for other people to use and good in low light and fast focusing... didnt miss a moment.. no regrets...

but but I now almost use the T exclusively to photograph my kids... sure I miss some moments.. its ok... but child birth is special...one time only! don't stress your self out...

 

marh

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Will the Q loose some value when the interchangeable lens camera becomes available?...Maybe but not if it is priced at $6,000 for body only and another $2k for lens.  Also, if it looks like a DSLR instead of a RF, that will have an impact on the camera's desirability versus the fixed lens Q.  Fun times ahead.

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Guest VVJ

Will the Q loose some value when the interchangeable lens camera becomes available?...Maybe but not if it is priced at $6,000 for body only and another $2k for lens.  Also, if it looks like a DSLR instead of a RF, that will have an impact on the camera's desirability versus the fixed lens Q.  Fun times ahead.

 

Good point.  I guess to a large extent it will indeed be determined by the price tag of the ILC Q (or whatever).

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I have T and Q ....... keeping both ..... no grumbles about the image quality from either and all the T zooms are super lenses

 

The T is particularly handy as a back-up/second body for those with an M .... particularly on holiday where you don't want to cart loads of stuff ......

 

If you are not going to invest in M lenses or more expensive gear then the choice is quite difficult as they are completely different systems and it really depends what suits you ..........

 

If you want zoom capability and Leica quality/simplicity I would try an X-Vario ....... very underrated and can be had quite cheaply ....... has it's foibles and limitations but nothing you couldn't live with or work around. 

 

However if you forced me to choose and throw the rest (of my non-M gear) away I would have to keep the Q ....... it really is in a different league in terms of ergonomics, quality and pleasure of use ...... and I could forgive it the limitations of the 28mm fixed lens and use my feet instead of a longer lens for 90% of subjects.

Edited by thighslapper

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My go-to camera for most functions where I need to pass the camera around is my X (typ 113) set for face detect.  Since the Q cropped to 35mm has essentially the same resolution it would be even better, but alas I don't own a Q.

 

Still, even with its not-quite-blazing AF I have no issues at all with the X, and I'm sure the T with the 23mm isn't much slower on AF.

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Still, even with its not-quite-blazing AF I have no issues at all with the X, and I'm sure the T with the 23mm isn't much slower on AF.

 

The 23mm is actually quite snappy I find.  The 18-56mm on the other hand is very slow IMO.

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