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Leica Q highlights area blown

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Are you saying the Q has no highlight warning in the review?

Anyway - I wonder how anybody was ever able to produce a properly exposed slide. No warning in the viewfinder, 5 stops of DR, a delay of days between shooting and viewing... Still we managed to muddle by..

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Are you saying the Q has no highlight warning in the review?

 

I am just saying that if a camera does not have highlight warning in the preview, then it is impossible for a human to know which highlights will be actually blown and expose correctly.

I wonder how anybody was ever able to produce a properly exposed slide.

 

I wonder how many other slides were incorrectly exposed. AEB anyone ? 

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Indeed, but if the camera does not clearly show blown pixels in the viewfinder, then this judgment call cannot be left to a human either 

If man use center weighted metering with RX1, it will not have problem for big contrast situation, because HDR level can be set up from 1-5 there. Raw file will be adjusted to Lightroom, and fix the blown highlights. 

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The Q has no HDR mode as far as I am aware, nor is it a realistic expectation that one will be implemented.

You could try exposure bracketing and merge to HDR in postprocessing.

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I am just saying that if a camera does not have highlight warning in the preview, then it is impossible for a human to know which highlights will be actually blown and expose correctly.

 

 

I wonder how many other slides were incorrectly exposed. AEB anyone ? 

I would say the far majority were well exposed in capable hands.

 

Any decent photographer should be aware how his exposure will come out in my opinion. You are trying to replace a brain by silicon. Maybe a laudable quest, but not one that produces any enthusiasm with me.

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Whatever. Personally I have no problem with the Q on judging when my highlights will be clipped especially when using the excellent EVF. I would add that I have set the contrast level in the jpeg settings which does actually effect what you see in the LCD and EVF to 'saturation' -1 and contrast to the minimum levels and this matches a lot better what I see when I import the DNG's into LR6

 

The reality is that this is not an infallible point or shoot camera just like any other compact

Edited by viramati

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You are trying to replace a brain by silicon.

 

Yes, as we did with your pocket calculator.

This way your brain can be used for more important tasks than calculating the right exposure, like composition.

 

We are getting there, and anyone will be happier. Recommended read:

http://web.media.mit.edu/~hangzhao/modulo.html

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By the way, you can set the Q to show blown highlights, go to PHOTO LIVE VIEW SETUP in the menu and turn Clipping "ON".  It will show you highlight clipping on the LCD or EVF.  I usually leave it off as it isn't hard to tell in high contrast scenes where you are likely to clip.  I have found recovery, even where it shows clipping to be extremely good, in fact better than my friends A7RII.

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By the way, you can set the Q to show blown highlights, go to PHOTO LIVE VIEW SETUP in the menu and turn Clipping "ON".  It will show you highlight clipping on the LCD or EVF.  I usually leave it off as it isn't hard to tell in high contrast scenes where you are likely to clip.  I have found recovery, even where it shows clipping to be extremely good, in fact better than my friends A7RII.

Tanks for tips. How do find the recovery? A7II has a really top HDR 24mb sensor same as A99, RX1 and D650. You mean recovery in Q is even better?

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I have found recovery, even where it shows clipping to be extremely good

 

Then I am afraid that the clipping indicator only shows JPEG clipping, not RAW clipping as it should (when shooting RAW).

Another firmware nonsense, as expected from Leica firmware engineers.

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A7II has a really top HDR 24mb sensor same as A99, RX1 and D650. You mean recovery in Q is even better?

 

On paper, the recovery in the Q must be worse, as the dynamic range is a bit lower.

However, keep in mind that recovery is influenced by several other factors (e.g. ISO setting, exposure, et cetera).

Edited by CheshireCat

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Then I am afraid that the clipping indicator only shows JPEG clipping, not RAW clipping as it should (when shooting RAW).

Another firmware nonsense, as expected from Leica firmware engineers.

Ah - you seem to think that there are parts in a raw image which can be clipped while in the JPEG rendering they are not?

 

You have been asked time and again to cease your unbased bashing of Leica's software people. Now would be a good moment to start.

 

I am writing this post on my phablet where writing in blue is rather cumbersome. Please read the 2nd paragraph of this posting in a slanted bold blue typeface.

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Unbased certainly.

Very few cameras have raw clipping indications. Which means Leica had to provide a possibility to set a percentage in the menu on the Monochroms, which have, as a 100 % raw warning does not leave any headroom*.

Most cameras will show Blinkies one stop before clipping all channels.

 

 

*Which is needed as clipping will not occur in the three colour channels simultaneously, unless one is shooting a pure grey object in pure white light (or a monochrome camera)

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Then I am afraid that the clipping indicator only shows JPEG clipping, not RAW clipping as it should (when shooting RAW).

Another firmware nonsense, as expected from Leica firmware engineers.

Correct me if I am wrong but as far as I know one of the only cameras to actually offer a histogram from the RAW file is the leica M Monochrom (don't know about the MM240)

Well done Leica. 

Edited by viramati

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Ah - you seem to think that there are parts in a raw image which can be clipped while in the JPEG rendering they are not?

 

No, it is actually the other way around.

My point is that the clipping warning must be computed on the RAW image, and show actually clipped pixels (no recovery possible).

 

It is a bit more complicated than this, because:

- Exposure simulation in Live View is just a... simulation, therefore the final exposure could be slightly different. However, during image review, the clip warning can and must reflect the RAW data. Clipped pixels cannot be recovered by definition.

- Only one channel may be clipping (e.g. green), and the others may not be. In this case, recovery is possible only in the other channels, leading to color errors. Clip warning must be shown also in this case.

 

You have been asked time and again to cease your unbased bashing of Leica's software people. Now would be a good moment to start.

 

Sorry, but my bashings are not "unbased": I always provide a technical explanation.

But you can certainly say that my bashings are "unbiased" (pun intended), because I do the same with other manufacturers.

E.g. I just got the Sony A7r-II and I can anticipate it is far from perfect - more on this in future posts where I will compare it to the M240 for anyone interested.

 

in any case, when I buy a product, my money is perfectly working. Therefore I deserve a perfectly working product.

And if I pay a premium over similar products (as often happens with Leica), I am really pissed off if I don't get a perfectly working product - and have to wait years to get firmware bugs fixed, also "thanks" to forum users and admins dismissing my legitimate complaints as bashing (I am referring to past threads on the M240).

Edited by CheshireCat

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I find the highlight recovery in the Q to be great, using Capture One. No complaints and am hard-pressed to create some. 

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Unbased certainly.

Very few cameras have raw clipping indications. Which means Leica had to provide a possibility to set a percentage in the menu on the Monochroms, which have, as a 100 % raw warning does not leave any headroom*.

Most cameras will show Blinkies one stop before clipping all channels.

 

All decent cameras able to shoot video allow setting a clipping percentage, because unlike still photography, you need to be conservative when shooting video as lighting conditions may change in future frames.

 

But if I set the clipping percentage to 100% (as I always do), it means I want to have a clip warning when recovery is not possible. And I want this done on the RAW data, not after the camera has processed the image for preview or JPEG (unless I have asked the camera to save JPEG only, which is never the case).

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Then you will have to buy a Monochrom... Raw histogram, raw clipping in review.

Which makes sense on a monochrome camera, not so much on a colour one, as things will get rather cluttered if you would display channel clipping warnings. Four different kinds of clipping; one per channel and one 100%, lighting the EVF/Display up like a kaleidoscope... That would not be very helpful to anybody but a nerd.

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Correct me if I am wrong but as far as I know one of the only cameras to actually offer a histogram from the RAW file is the leica M Monochrom (don't know about the MM240)

Well done Leica. 

 

Yes, Leica did the right thing with the MM.

 

I also get RAW histogram and zebra with Canon 5D2 + Magic Lantern firmware.

 

Don't know about other cameras. I just got my A7r-II and will check if it does the right thing.

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