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robert blu

Will the Q stop the T system?

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Same here, tried the T a couple of times on the telescope, and had to take my glove off to operate it. Not a biggie, but still a nuisance. Same if I use the wifi app (not that I could on my Android phone).

It's just the way it is I suppose.

Gary

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There are special goves which allow you to use the mobile phone with the gloves on. Perhaps those will work with the T as well?

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Hopefully not but these lines are not very promising, full article here.

 

robert

 

extract: "Anticipate that Leica will begin to simplify options, but canceling the T line and possibly the X-line. What will remain are the DLux, VLux, M, Q, S lines..."

Edited by robert blu

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Don't believe everything you read

It is a rumour site with a low prob rumor ....

I second that.  You read the part calling it maybe an "R" camera.......ha!  Will the T live on??  Who knows.  Great little camera that deserves more credit.

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… 

I'm right with you about the Q and the T system though - seems to me there is almost no overlap - I can see a real argument for having both, but personally, much as I liked the Q, I'm sticking to the T system, because it's just that - a system, and because it's such a good companion to my beloved M.

 

I do agree with Stuart that it needs new primes - but I'm sure they'll come, personally I can always stick an M lens on (which works pretty well). 

 

 

Hi Robert

If it's any consolation, I have finally cracked and bought a T for myself (it arrives tomorrow) . . . . more than 18 months after the first test camera arrived. It isn't perfect, but it kinda gets under your skin, it's a delight to use, and the images are lovely.

best

Jono

 

 

Developing a new lens mount, and new lenses to go with it, is a huge financial commitment, especially for a 'small' company like Leica. It's not the kind of thing you would do to test customer reaction. 

 

I think the T mount must be here to stay, and quite right too.

 

 

It's notably bigger than the Sony E mount as well, but of course, Leica have denied that they're making a full frame T mount Camera.

 

… well they would … wouldn't they !! 

 

 

Hah! A good camera is a good camera - I really like the T, I also think that the 3 existing zooms (together with the fast M primes) will do for now (although, like Dunk I'd like to see a fast prime and a macro and a fast 300 equivalent). . . . . but yes, the cameras I own are an M-P, a M246 Monocrhom and a T (and an Olympus E-M5ii which I hardly use) 

 

 

 

Jono has confidence in the 'T' and unlikely he would have purchased a 'T' recently if he thought it did not have a good future … thus might be indicative that the latest rumour about the 'T's' alleged demise is naysayers' wishful thinking gobble-de-gook … or as Mark Twain said …  ”The report of my death was an exaggeration.”

 

dunk

Edited by dkCambridgeshire

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Jono has confidence in the 'T' and unlikely he would have purchased a 'T' recently if he thought it did not have a good future … thus might be indicative that the latest rumour about the 'T's' alleged demise is naysayers' wishful thinking gobble-de-gook 

 

dunk

 

I am with you on this Dunk.

 

But I can't help feeling that the development of the T and introducing new (prime) T- lenses in APS-C format is on a back burner this year. Introducing a FF-camera with a T-mount looks imminent and the danger is that we have to wait longer for the expansion of the system because of it. 

 

And although I like using M- and R-lenses on the T, it is far from ideal. I bought the camera for its potential as a high quality compact light system, that doesn't break the (my) bank. When I have to invest in more M-lenses because of the lack of T-lenses, I might as well go all the way with an M or W or Q-new. Depending on which will give me the best quality and versatility in the longer run of course.

 

Investing in the lenses is the most important factor when I choose a system. I "burnt" myself once with the R (making still good use of what is left of course), but I like to see progress with the T in APS-C format. Which I use and want to use for my daily shooting. And I only want a 21, 35 and 75 mm. equivalent, with the highest possible quality for the T. Preferably with the MF/AF/macro layout of the Q-lens.  The T-camera can develop in time and I will upgrade whenever I feel to it, when steps in the development of the T are significant.

 

That isn't to much to ask for, is it Leica?

 

In the longer run I want to invest in an MF system for architecture and landscape. And that won't and can't be a Leica as it stands.

Edited by AndrewAM

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I am with you on this Dunk.

 

But I can't help feeling that the development of the T and introducing new (prime) T- lenses in APS-C format is on a back burner this year. Introducing a FF-camera with a T-mount looks imminent and the danger is that we have to wait longer for the expansion of the system because of it. 

 

And although I like using M- and R-lenses on the T, it is far from ideal. I bought the camera for its potential as a high quality compact light system, that doesn't break the (my) bank. When I have to invest in more M-lenses because of the lack of T-lenses, I might as well go all the way with an M or W or Q-new. Depending on which will give me the best quality and versatility in the longer run of course.

 

Investing in the lenses is the most important factor when I choose a system. I "burnt" myself once with the R (making still good use of what is left of course), but I like to see progress with the T in APS-C format. Which I use and want to use for my daily shooting. And I only want a 21, 35 and 75 mm. equivalent, with the highest possible quality for the T.  The T-camera can develop in time and I will upgrade whenever I feel to it, when steps in the development of the T are significant. That isn't to much to ask is it?

 

In the longer run I want to invest in an MF system for architecture and landscape. And that won't be a Leica as it stands.

 

 

The beauty of the 'T' is that it's adaptable to so many different lens mounts. I have adaptors enabling use of manual focus Nikon, Minolta, Canon FD, Olympus OM, Leica R, Leica L39 and Leica M lenses .. also Hasselblad and Pentacon 6 … and plan to explore all these possibilities … the latter with a Zork shift adaptor. And I forgot to mention Samyang T2 mount lenses some of which are unique and unavailable from other manufacturers e.g. the 800mm f8 mirror lens. 

 

dunk

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And I forgot to mention Samyang T2 mount lenses some of which are unique and unavailable from other manufacturers e.g. the 800mm f8 mirror lens. 

 

dunk

 

Agreed, the T is great to experiment with, but so will the new rumoured system camera I think, maybe even better!?

 

By the way, that brings me to my promised report on the MR-Telyt-R 500/8 and the Minolta RF 800/8 with Leica R mount. It is certainly not shelved, It is almost complete, finished shooting for it last weekend. So work permitting (have to finish a project this month) I can publish it next week in R-lens thread.

I will send you a PM to inform you when it is up.

 

regards

 

Andreas

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...

And although I like using M- and R-lenses on the T, it is far from ideal. I bought the camera for its potential as a high quality compact light system, that doesn't break the (my) bank. When I have to invest in more M-lenses because of the lack of T-lenses, I might as well go all the way with an M or W or Q-new. Depending on which will give me the best quality and versatility in the longer run of course.

 

Investing in the lenses is the most important factor when I choose a system. I "burnt" myself once with the R (making still good use of what is left of course), but I like to see progress with the T in APS-C format. Which I use and want to use for my daily shooting. And I only want a 21, 35 and 75 mm. equivalent, with the highest possible quality for the T. Preferably with the MF/AF/macro layout of the Q-lens.  The T-camera can develop in time and I will upgrade whenever I feel to it, when steps in the development of the T are significant.

 

That isn't to much to ask for, is it Leica?...

 

This is very well said and I fully agree. Compact high quality versatile system are the key words for the T. Even if I'm afraid of it I do not think Leica will kill a new system, but probably being a relative small company and due to the high interest in the Q and in the new system will probably delay the development of new lenses for the T. Priority could be on the systems giving sales (and profit) now.

 

But with no development and active support the T system will stay in standby and not much profit will come from  it. As Andrew says an EQ 21, 50 and 75/90 are required to complete the range. New customers may appreciate the zoom offer and this is ok, but older photographer coming from the M would like more primes. Personally I have to consider the T system as it is now and this makes it not suitable for my needs, I'm very sorry to say this. 

 

In photo magazines  Leica dealers make advertising for the M, the Q, sometimes the D-lux but almost nothing for the T. Even in the Leica blog if you look at the tags on the right side you find so many cameras ma no T...I believe that an innovative product, as the T needs to be pushed in order to get sales. Therefore no promotion, slow development, low sales, low profit. and with low profit again slow development....

 

robert

Edited by robert blu

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This is very well said and I fully agree. Compact high quality versatile system are the key words for the T. Even if I'm afraid of it I do not think Leica will kill a new system, but probably being a relative small company and due to the high interest in the Q and in the new system will probably delay the development of new lenses for the T. Priority could be on the systems giving sales (and profit) now.

 

But with no development and active support the T system will stay in standby and not much profit will come from  it. As Andrew says an EQ 21, 50 and 75/90 are required to complete the range. New customers may appreciate the zoom offer and this is ok, but older photographer coming from the M would like more primes. Personally I have to consider the T system as it is now and this makes it not suitable for my needs, I'm very sorry to say this. 

 

In photo magazines  Leica dealers make advertising for the M, the Q, sometimes the D-lux but almost nothing for the T. Even in the Leica blog if you look at the tags on the right side you find so many cameras ma no T...I believe that an innovative product, as the T needs to be pushed in order to get sales. Therefore no promotion, slow development, low sales, low profit. and with low profit again slow development....

 

robert

 

 

Consider the fact that other camera manufacturers use the same size/fit mount for both APS and FF … thus, if a new Leica FF mirrorless ICL camera is announced and it has the same/or modified mount as the T, the FF lenses would be usable on the APS-C 'T' camera … and existing 'T' lenses could be /might be usable on the new FF camera but would automatically crop the frame to APS format. 

 

This is conjecture … but might answer the question as to why no additional T lenses have been announced of late. 

 

To secure sales, a new FF system camera would need a fuller system than that launched for the T … and could include a dedicated macro lens(es) and fast primes.

 

dunk

Edited by dkCambridgeshire

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Consider the fact that other camera manufacturers use the same size/fit mount for both APS and FF … thus, if a new Leica FF mirrorless ICL camera is announced and it has the same/or modified mount as the T, the FF lenses would be usable on the APS-C 'T' camera … and existing 'T' lenses could be /might be usable on the new FF camera but would automatically crop the frame to APS format. 

 

This is conjecture … but might answer the question as to why no additional T lenses have been announced of late. 

 

To secure sales, a new FF system camera would need a fuller system than that launched for the T … and could include a dedicated macro lens(es) and fast primes.

 

dunk

 

Dunk,

 

there we go....

 

Leica T equals light, compact and quality.

 

If the new primes come only in FF-dimensions, two of the three inherent potential qualities of the T are gone. FF-lenses will be bigger and heavier then APS-C ones. So what is the point of the T then.

Leica shouldn't ignore the development of quality lenses for the APS-C sensor. Not everybody wants only on the FF-format wagon

A Leica T system with 3 (future) high quality primes in APS-C format will cost about 8.000 Euro's. That amount equals the purchase of an new W or Q with one lens, 50 mm. Cron (as in the rumors).

 

If Leica takes the Leica T, or the APS-C format for that matter, serious, they shouldn't go down this road.

Edited by AndrewAM

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Dunk,

 

there we go....

 

Leica T equals light, compact and quality.

 

If the new primes come only in FF-dimensions, two of the three inherent potential qualities of the T are gone. FF-lenses will be bigger and heavier then APS-C ones. So what is the point of the T then.

Leica shouldn't ignore the development of quality lenses for the APS-C sensor. Not everybody wants only on the FF-format wagon

A Leica T system with 3 (future) high quality primes in APS-C format will cost about 8.000 Euro's. That amount equals the purchase of an new W or Q with one lens, 50 mm. Cron (as in the rumors).

 

If Leica takes the Leica T, or the APS-C format for that matter, serious, they shouldn't go down this road.

 

As stated it's conjecture on my part … trying to second guess what might be happening.  Nobody (or very very few people) actually know what road the 'T' is actually on . But … FF lenses might not be so large … and they would certainly be smaller than e.g. 'R' lenses. 

 

dunk

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As stated it's conjecture on my part … trying to second guess what might be happening.  Nobody (or very very few people) actually know what road the 'T' is actually on . But … FF lenses might not be so large … and they would certainly be smaller than e.g. 'R' lenses. 

 

dunk

 

My reaction was more based on my worries that Leica has lost it's focus on what the T could or should mean in their lineup then the conjecture on your part.

The satisfaction you get out using really good gear depends on the details. And a system is as good as it's weakest component. Cutting corners to serve two very different sensors and camera sizes with one dedicated lens line, is just not the attention to detail and strive for quality I want to see from Leica.

 

The T has really good balance with the Cron 23 mm., which only weighs in at 150 grams.

 

Regards

 

Andreas

Edited by AndrewAM

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If the new primes come only in FF-dimensions, two of the three inherent potential qualities of the T are gone.

The main reason why FF lenses are bigger is that the larger sensor requires longer focal lengths for the same angle of view. If you have a 200 mm lens for an APS-C camera you would need a longer 300 mm lens for FF. But what if you want 300 mm for your APS-C camera? Then you could use the 300 mm lens, FF or not. The angle of of view captured would require 450 mm for FF so the size and weight advantage remains.

 

If a single mount was used for APS-C and FF, it would make sense to allow both kinds of bodies to use both kinds of lenses. APS-C lenses on a FF body would trigger a crop mode (which is what Nikon’s FX bodies do if a DX lens is attached) while FF lenses are compatible with APS-C bodies anyway. One would still need APS-C lenses but within the telephoto range the FF lenses would also be attractive for owners of an APS-C body.

Edited by mjh

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In general, in terms of AOV, I think you are right and I stand corrected, but real quality is in the detail and I like to reach for the optimum;

1. Using a FF lens on a APS-C camera brings in more (possible stray) light than strictly necessary because of the bigger size of the lenses, because the sensor differs in diameter (43 mm. FF against  the 28 mm. of an APS-C).

2. Larger glass-diameter then strictly necessary, means more weight and also higher cost.

3. An f/2.8 lens on a full-frame camera will deposit more light on the sensor (and each pixel) than a similarly-rated f/2.8 lens on a smaller-sensor camera framing the same scene. More light per pixel means lower image noise. So a real APS-C lens would benefit from an adapted absolute aperture.

 

Correct me if I am wrong on this.

 

The wait for a fast SWA T-lens, 12, 14 or 16 mm. ( 18 to 24 mm. eq.) will be long then, because, in reality, there is no need for it on a FF- camera.

Edited by AndrewAM

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