All Monochroms are Defected

[patrick parker]

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That's right discreet mode does not work properly from day one. The camera freezes on you. No firmware to fix it yet and since they are not being made anymore I declare ALL MONOCHROMS ARE DEFECTED CAMERAS. Not even one freaking apology from Leica.

[fiftyonepointsix]

Mine has never frozen up using discreet mode: depending on where in the cycle the firmware is- it might miss the release of the shutter that signals you are ready to advance. Just press it again.

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[IkarusJohn]

No freezes on mine so far. If that's defective, I'll take it!

[mjh]

ALL MONOCHROMS ARE DEFECTED CAMERAS.

I suppose you wanted to say that all M Monochrom (the original ones, not the new Typ 246) were defective – ‘defected’ doesn’t really apply to cameras. Leica did acknowledge the issue with discreet mode and burst mode (which obviously shouldn’t be used in combination anyway) and they did release a firmware update to improve the stability of discreet mode, but I’m afraid that discreet mode will probably never be completely free from issues. In retrospect I believe discreet mode was a bad idea to begin with, but there you are.

Edited July 11, 2015 by mjh

[Jeff S]

As Michael said….applies to all M9-based cameras, not just the original Monochrom.  The quiet M240 shutter re-cock was obviously the superior approach.

 

I do however think that Leica can generally do a better job issuing timely and effective FW updates, as well as communications.

 

Jeff

[pico]

Just do not use discreet with continuous exposures. Doesn't that make common sense?

Perhaps Leica over-estimates the intelligence of its customers.

[Jeff S]

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Various other discussions involved users whose cameras froze using discreet setting in single shot mode.

 

As with various 'bugs' discussed here (especially around camera lock-ups, slow start-up times, etc.) experiences seem to vary with cameras...and users.

 

Jeff

[fiftyonepointsix]

Discreet mode is a feature that was absent in the original M8 release, was added to it and was always in the M9 release. It has never had a problem in the M8, and works perfectly in the M9 through release 1.176. After that- some added feature caused discreet mode to work improperly. My solution- keep the M9 at v1.176. With the M Monochrom, it's a timing issue. I've used Discreet mode for since I've owned the camera. I'm very good at working within the timing parameters of when to let up on the release. I would love to see the firmware go open-source. As it used to work in v 1.176 and earlier on the M9, it certainly is not a hardware problem. I suspect the problem was introduced in solving SD card write problems, but that is just a guess.

Edited July 12, 2015 by fiftyonepointsix

[fiftyonepointsix]

It takes ~1/3rd of a second to read the data out of the CCD. I like to hold off the shutter mechanism long enough for the analog conversion process to take place.

 

So I like Discreet mode to optimize a Discrete operation. It could cause a discontinuity in the power supply.

Edited July 12, 2015 by fiftyonepointsix

[batmobile]

 After all, the camera is marketed as having a discreet mode, so its not hard to understand why people might hope and expect that it works properly. Yes, experienced Leica users know it is buggy, but that does not alter my previous sentences.

Edited July 12, 2015 by jaapv
referred to deleted post

[250swb]

Not one apology from Leica, and not one apology from a photographer to anybody shot discreetly either. It's seems to be a stalemate.

 

Steve

Edited July 12, 2015 by 250swb

[jaapv]

It really does not make sense to use discrete mode and continuous together. Just using discrete and repressing the shutter in S works just as well or better. Yes, the camera should not  lock in any operating mode that it supports, so Leica should simply have disabled this combination of options to prevent people using it this way.

[mjh]

Discreet mode is a feature that was absent in the original M8 release, was added to it and was always in the M9 release.

The problem is that no M supporting discreet mode was designed with discreet mode in mind. Discreet mode was an afterthought. When this mode was retrofitted to the M8, development of the M9 was already well underway, and the M9 and M8 are for the most part the same camera sharing lots of parts. The original M Monochrom is an M9 with a monochrome sensor and a modified firmware, but again it shares a lot with the M8. The first model that could have been designed to support discreet mode was the M (Typ 240), but then it was a moot point as discreet mode had outlived its usefulness anyway.

 

It seems to be impossible to get the timing right under every conceivable circumstances in discreet mode. If you avoid the obvious pitfalls (like burst mode) it can work quite reliably, but there are situations in which it will fail.

[patrick parker]

Just do not use discreet with continuous exposures. Doesn't that make common sense?

Perhaps Leica over-estimates the intelligence of its customers.

I never mentioned the continuous mode because discreet mode does not cause any problems on continuous. Does the dog photograph symbolize  obedience? 

Edited July 12, 2015 by patrick parker

[BerndReini]

I'll be alright.

[fiftyonepointsix]

That's how I 

 

I'll be alright.

That's how I feel about it. It's someone else's problem. I get paid to debug other people's firmware.  The "hang-up" (as opposed to a crash) crept in with the more aggressive battery-power monitoring function of V1.196 on the M9, which is the base for the M Monochrom. It acts like a "lost-Interrupt". In over 30K shots with my M8 and M9 (V1.176 through V1.138) the discreet function has never suffered a "hang-up". With the M Monochrom, about 10% of the time. The "Hang-up" occurs less if you release it relatively quickly or wait until the buffer has been flushed (red LED stops blinking).

[fiftyonepointsix]

I checked to see when Discreet mode was introduced: it was with the Leica M8.2, which has a redesigned shutter from the M8. The M8.2 was introduced with discreet mode. The M9 and M Monochrom adopted the M8.2 shutter. It is quieter, but you sacrifice top shutter speed and flash sync speed.

 

(from reading older reviews) The M8 shutter was adopted from the R8/R9, including the 1/8000th sec shutter speed. The discreet mode was implemented in the M8 firmware after the release of the M8.2. My M8 was delivered with 2.004 installed, the first to support Discreet advance- so I have always used it.

[IWC Doppel]

I must admit I never liked discreet mode and with 35k actuations on an M8, M9-P and now MMI I can't recall a "hang up". The statement above I hope was designed to be reactionary otherwise your likely to be severely disappointed with most electronic equipment as functionality and complexity challenged with budgets and marketing timetables.

 

Perhaps film would be a good idea 

[fiftyonepointsix]

A "Hang-up", "Glitch", "Bug", "Error", "Mistake"- usually just typing to fix.

 

I started writing firmware for digital imaging sensors in 1981. The first "hang-up" required putting mag tape under a microscope to find the errors written to the inter-record gap of the tape by the hardware and write software to work around them. 35 years later, still writing firmware. I have a poster in the Lab with a group of programmers standing around a CRT with one screaming in shock "Who the Hell put THAT in There!" That explains most everything. Been there for 25+ years.

With using the M Monochrom since 12/2012: I just make note of the timing when the "hang-up" occurs and try to work within optimal parameters to minimize the issue.

Edited July 14, 2015 by fiftyonepointsix

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[pico]

We would run 9-track tapes through fluid with magnetic particles and read them with a magnifying glass.

 

Remember cascade sorts?