assaf110 Posted July 6, 2015 Share #1 Posted July 6, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm in the market for a 75mm leica lens. my only other m-mount lens currently is the 35/2 asph. the close focus distance of 0.7m is a must as i find it useful for my style - sorry, no CV alternatives here. the options are the new summarit, or a 2nd hand 75/2 copy. i shoot only film (M6). i'm worried about the need to calibrate the 75 cron cause i don't have a leica service locally (have to ship it to wetzlar). i'm not too keen after the screw on hood, and much prefer the collapsible hood for practical reasons (yes, i know its too short). same for the rubber focus grip, but i guess i can live with it. the max 2.4 apparture of the summarit won't limit me, most of the shots will be portraits. I do love the creamy bokeh of the cron tough... i rather have a travel friendly lens (size/weight) but both seems to be ok in that field. would love to hear your advice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 Hi assaf110, Take a look here 75/2 or 75/2.4?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pgk Posted July 6, 2015 Share #2 Posted July 6, 2015 I was loaned a Summarit a good few years ago by a Leica rep. Very good lens of 'conventional' design. Could not fault its performance in actual usage. I've had 2 75/2s. The first was out of adjustment and I finally got rid of it. The second is spot on and is a superb lens and with its modern aspheric design and moving rear group produces extraordinarily detailed images. Whilst there was nothing wrong with the Summarit, everything is right with the Summicron. A rather subtle if not strange distinction I accept. Both lenses are very good the Summicron is just better in terms of its resolution of fine detail. I can't say that the 'bokeh' of either lens has bothered me. You have a difficult choice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted July 6, 2015 Share #3 Posted July 6, 2015 My APO is a brilliant lens, but fussy to focus. By fussy I mean a street sign target 300 ft away and F8. Nailed the focus, but depth of field is still very small. I do not think it carried more than 25 or 50 feet total. I think this is the product of the APO design. Somewhere, perhaps Overgard`s site, Peter Karbe said that was the his design goal, very sharp in focus and RAPID fall off before and after. Perhaps someone who has the 2.4 can comment on this characteristic . My frustration was this was a $4000 lens or $2000 lens and I did not want to be disappointed. I can only say you will not be happy to use this as a fast focus street lens. There is no forgiveness . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornnb Posted July 7, 2015 Share #4 Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) I would recommend picking up a 75mm Summicron second hand, one of the older Mandler designs as they can be had for a bit less than the price of the Summarit. Of course though, if your goal is portraits nothing can do what the rather expensive 75mm Summilux can in terms of shallow depth of field. Edited July 7, 2015 by Mornnb Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsolomon Posted July 7, 2015 Share #5 Posted July 7, 2015 My two lens kit is the 35 corn and 75 cron. I find them to be a very nice pair. The 75 cron as mentioned is razor sharp and may not be a great portrait lens since it can be critically sharp and perhaps not flattering to any imperfections-it's really that sharp. Having said that I love the size, weight, focus throw. When I first bought, brand new, the lens on went in immediately for a back focus and dust - I was so PO'd. Since getting it back this lens in my opinion for my needs is perfect.... For me this is a permanent member of my lens kit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCW Posted July 7, 2015 Share #6 Posted July 7, 2015 I dithered for several years before I made my decision. I now have the new Summarit 75 f2.4 and I'm delighted with it. In the end, I chose it in preference to the Apo-Cron 75 mainly because of its smaller size and weight (325g vs. 430g). The half-stop difference doesn't matter to me, though it might to some. In Sean Reid's several comparisons of 75mm M lenses, the previous Summarit (2.5) did outstandingly well - better resolution in both centre and corners than the Cron - though that might be because of sample variations. My 2.4 is sharp from corner to corner. The large screw-in lenshood that comes with the Summarit is a bit fiddly to use, but it's far more effective as a hood than the tiny built-in hood on the Cron. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted July 7, 2015 Share #7 Posted July 7, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) In Sean Reid's several comparisons of 75mm M lenses, the previous Summarit (2.5) did outstandingly well - better resolution in both centre and corners than the Cron - though that might be because of sample variations. Ahhh. The problems of reviewing lenses. The Summarit I used was good, far 'better' than my original Summicron, but not as good as my current Summicron. Sample variation and imperfect adjustments are a very good reason not to rely too much on single reviews. If you look through the myriads of posts here on this forum, few say anything bad about the Summarit, but some say, as I do, that a well adjusted Summicron is extraordinarily good. I prefer to read up user's experiences and add them to my own before deciding what I to do. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darylgo Posted July 7, 2015 Share #8 Posted July 7, 2015 The summarit while being excellent has greater contrast that I found difficult for portraits, the cron was smoother with less contrast and didn't have as many issues with oof chromatic aberations. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpclee Posted July 7, 2015 Share #9 Posted July 7, 2015 I have both and the Summicron is the one I'm keeping. The Summarit is a great lens and cannot be faulted in any way, but the Summicron is just very special and perhaps the best Leica lens I've ever used. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 7, 2015 Share #10 Posted July 7, 2015 If you only shoot film, there should not be too many worries about calibration. Most of the complaints you read are on digital sensors, which are far more critical in this respect. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipus Posted July 7, 2015 Share #11 Posted July 7, 2015 I only shoot film and have the 75/2 APO. I don't like it. Calibration most definitely is an issue. Of course, I have only tried this one copy of the lens but I have several other lenses, including modern Asph lenses and all bought second-hand, none of which has given me calibration problems. I won't shoot the APO wide open or even at f4 at 2-3 metres distance because I know focus will be off. It totally and utterly sucks. More than this, though, this lens has such narrow DOF that it is extremely difficult to use for my style of photography, which is mainly comparably quick street or people photography. I can imagine it would work well for portrait photography (with very still-sitting models if one to use it wide open) and still lives. I bought this lens because I wanted "a slightly wider than 90mm but not as narrow as 50mm lens". While 75mm gives a very nice field of view, I am fairly sure the APO is just not for me. It is about 100g heavier than the Summarit but more than that it is also very front heavy and extends quite a bit when focused (all relative, I know, in Leica land with generally smallish lenses). I base my impression of the Summarit on what I saw and felt at photokina last year but I was very impressed with it. Handling-wise it gave a very good impression. In buying the Summicron (after photokina and for about what a new Summarit 75/2.4 costs these days) two reasons were of particular importance to my decision: 1) that it is an f2 which would mean a meaningful advantage to my style of photography being a film-only photographer, and 2) that it is effectively the same optical design as the 50/1.4 Asph, which I really, really like. However, in actual use I have found it very difficult to use. In addition to the above problems with focus calibration and very thin DOF, the 75 framelines are difficult to see on my M6TTL (.72x). The 75 frame is indicated only at the corners and is within the more fully drawn 50mm framelines. This makes it less natural to shoot fast because the (my) eyes will see the 50mm lines first. It's individual, of course, but I suspect I wouldn't be the only one experiencing this. All in all, given the small speed difference to the Summarit (and how insensitive film generally is to 0,5 stops light difference), if I were to buy a 75mm lens today I would go for the Summarit. In fact, I'd probably buy the f2.5 version which can be had for comparably little today. And on the issue of cost - the 75 APO is actually a pretty inexpensive Leica lens, selling usually at just a few hundred Euro more (used) than a new Summarit 2.4. Nevertheless, I wouldn't buy it again. Oh, the hood. It is pitifully useless, much like the one on the 50/1.4 Asph. Luckily the APO is not flare prone. Still I would prefer a proper screw-in hood. I realise these are just my observations so they're to be taken fwiw. Philip 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jto555 Posted July 7, 2015 Share #12 Posted July 7, 2015 I am using the APO and find it a wonderfull lens. Yes, calibration can be an issue but if the lens is less than three years old then Leica can adjust if at no cost to you. Just an idea, if you buy a new lens then you do get a full Leica warranty, which for me, is worth more than the difference between a new and a secondhand lens. My owen APO did need adjustment when I got it. Now it is 'bang on'. As for the lens hood, yes it is too short. So I bought a cheap metal (eBay) hood. If I need a small compact lens I leave the hood at home and use the pull out hood. If I am shooting into the light, I use my eBay hood. Best of both worlds! John 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpclee Posted July 7, 2015 Share #13 Posted July 7, 2015 If you buy a "Certified Pre-owned" lens from one the Leica Stores in the United States, it was already checked by Leica USA to be within specs and will come with a 1-year warranty from Leica USA in case if there are any problems. For lenses I think a 1-year warranty is enough. Other authorized Leica dealers may also carry Certified Pre-owned items; I have no idea. I tend to buy from Leica Store Miami and they have been absolutely great. When I suspected one lens was out of calibration, I sent it to them to forward to Leica USA, zero hassle. Turned out the lens was not out of calibration at all and Leica USA offered to check my camera body for free. They are very honest people to deal with. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted July 7, 2015 Share #14 Posted July 7, 2015 Calibration most definitely is an issue. I didn't shoot my first 75 Summicron on film, but if I had done so it would have been an issue - focus was well off and compounded by the 'floating' lens group probably also being out of tolerance at closer focus settings. Sounds like yours needs a trip to Leica I'm afraid, but when set up correctly you will find it to be a superb performer. And yes the frame lines are 'vague' but again persevere because it is well worth it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipus Posted July 7, 2015 Share #15 Posted July 7, 2015 Thanks, I didn't want to make this thread about me, but only to share my experiences with the lens in the hope of assisting the OP. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
assaf110 Posted July 7, 2015 Author Share #16 Posted July 7, 2015 And you did. some great answers here. i have to say that the need for precise calibration is a (too?) common complaint regarding the 75 cron. for me it is an issue. i'll be at leica store berlin later this week. currently leaning towards the summarit... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grillo Posted July 8, 2015 Share #17 Posted July 8, 2015 I would like to point out that if 0.7m focusing is a must it rules out the summarit, which has a 0.9m close focusing distance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCW Posted July 8, 2015 Share #18 Posted July 8, 2015 I would like to point out that if 0.7m focusing is a must it rules out the summarit, which has a 0.9m close focusing distance. That is true of the old 75mm 2.5 Summarit, but the revamped 2.4 Summarit which replaced it focusses as low as 0.7m. It was the newer model that the OP said he was considering. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted July 9, 2015 Share #19 Posted July 9, 2015 I concur with the view that it can be a bit of a crapshoot buying the 75 Summicron. I've owned it twice. The first seemed fine in terms of calibration/focus but was quite flare prone – probably the most flarey Leica lens I've owned. The second one I bought required two trips to Germany to correct for noticeable front focus but was okay in terms of flare resistance. I ended up selling the latter for one of the reasons Philip goes: namely, that I just can't get on with the 75mm framelines. It is not a focal length that I use often enough for me to naturally see the 75 framelines and I was too often inadvertently using the 50 frames. I've considered buying another for the utlity value of having an M lens that provides a tight field of view but I know that I'll be frustrated by the framelines (especially now I use an M-A most of the time and which has only the scantiest indication of the 75mm frame). 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipus Posted July 9, 2015 Share #20 Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) Apologies for now intentionally making this about me but I just wanted to say that following the suggesting above regarding warranty I checked with New Old Camera whether their warranty would cover calibration (the lens is 10yrs old). It does and NOC has agreed to carry out speedy calibration against my TTL so that the equipment will be back in time for my upcoming vacation. I may still revise my view regarding the lens, at least in part. Edited July 9, 2015 by philipus 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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