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CCD Sensor - New Leica Information about the State of Development


Leon_B.

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Hi,

 

I took possession of my new online purchased, M-E on 21 December 2012 as per the waybill. (I do have the original receipt)

My first email to Leica reporting a sensor problem was on 20 December 2017 and confirmation from Leica of the problem was on 21 December 2017.

 

This should fall within the 5 years even though on the last day of the 5 years, for cases where the cameras have been purchased as new products within the last five years?

 

Leica's Customer Care response:

"The CCD replacement will be charged since August 2017.

His first mail was from 20th of December, after the expiration of the 5 year goodwill period.

The Leica management does not allow us any exceptions"

 

Where do I go from here?

 

Thank you

Johann

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Just how severe is the corrosion people find with the M9? I wonder if it is serious enough to worry. I have two M9s, and I cope easily with the issue.

 

I am no longer a pro, so there are no anal born-yesterday editors pestering me over minutiae. In addition the spots are always in the same place on the image so an elementary Photoshop action obviates them in a moment. Finally, and silly I know, those blips of corrosion serve as a unique watermark. :)

Edited by pico
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Guest tofu_man

Just how severe is the corrosion people find with the M9? I wonder if it is serious enough to worry. I have two M9s, and I cope easily with the issue.

 

I am no longer a pro, so there are no anal born-yesterday editors pestering me over minutiae. In addition the spots are always in the same place on the image so an elementary Photoshop action obviates them in a moment. Finally, and silly I know, those blips of corrosion serve as a unique watermark. :)

 

Good question. Unless it was really bad, I would live with it rather than pay for a replacement.  The corrosion 'blobs' on my sensor were easily dealt with, and not always noticeable to me as my sensor was extremely dusty anyway.

 

At first, I thought the blobs were spots of tear gas residue when I was taking pics on the Palestine side of the Israeli separation wall during summer 2014. The blobs show just left of top centre & towards lower centre in top photo.

 

:D

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Just how severe is the corrosion people find with the M9? I wonder if it is serious enough to worry. I have two M9s, and I cope easily with the issue.

 

I am no longer a pro, so there are no anal born-yesterday editors pestering me over minutiae. In addition the spots are always in the same place on the image so an elementary Photoshop action obviates them in a moment. Finally, and silly I know, those blips of corrosion serve as a unique watermark. :)

Mine wasn't that bad but I sent it off anyway because there is no telling what Leica will do in the future given their track record on this matter. My concern was that Leica would bump up the price for the replacement or cancel the "service" altogether once limitation periods (in respect of sales of goods law) expired.

 

Assuming nothing else goes wrong with the camera, we should have a camera that is usable for many years to come. However, not replacing the sensor could mean that the corrosion becomes so bad that it renders the camera a brick.

 

With M9 prices around the £2k mark, I can still justify spending half its value on a repair. I'm not sure I could do that if value of the M9 were around the £1k mark.

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Thank you for the replies.

I initially thought it is just dust spots but it started to get worse.

It only got really noticeable towards the end of 2017 and that is when I notified Leica.

 

As it is currently, it will be possible to manage in post processing but my concern is if it get worse.

Quoted sensor replacement cost is around £1000.

 

Johann

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Just how severe is the corrosion people find with the M9? I wonder if it is serious enough to worry. I have two M9s, and I cope easily with the issue.

 

I am no longer a pro, so there are no anal born-yesterday editors pestering me over minutiae. In addition the spots are always in the same place on the image so an elementary Photoshop action obviates them in a moment. Finally, and silly I know, those blips of corrosion serve as a unique watermark. :)

 

 

Just how severe, I'll let you judge. These files were the last made with each of my M9-P bodies as I was preparing them in April to send to New Jersey. Sensor replacement was right at 3 months. The sensors had previously been replaced in each body.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I was browsing eBay the other day and came across an M9 sale where the seller claimed that Leica guarantees the 'version 2' sensor for a period of 24 months.  This was in addition to the 12 month warranty he received for paying for the sensor replacement.

 

I've not heard of this before.  Is there any truth in this or is it simply the usual BS that eBay sellers conjure up when they sell their stuff?

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I missed the deadline as of august 2017 as well... I thought I did check my sensor finding nothing but a couple of dust marks. When sending it in for a regular cleaning, the local Leica store flagged the issue and explained that the faulty surface of the sensor really start to show and ¨peel of¨ during cleaning. I did not take the camera back, but sent it directly til Solms.

 

9 weeks and euro 1000,- later I am still happy. They even replaced the navigator wheel which I reported to be ¨restless¨ and I also now find the same old battery to last longer (?).

 

Regards, Stein

Edited by Stein K S
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  • 2 weeks later...
I am in shock. I literally just found out about this issue yesterday. I cannot believe the way Leica handled this situation. Sure... they could have said "Sorry about your luck" to everyone but who would trust to buy from them again? It was their fault and manufacturing defect. I had a timing belt retention rod fall off my 2010 Volvo and killed the engine completely. The car was years outside of the warranty and Volvo covered the replacement cost 100% without skipping a beat. That's standing behind your product. Leica is being very shady considering how much people pay for their cameras. I could never buy another Leica without an extreme amount of anxiety and worry. So now I could keep my existing M9-P with a new sensor (which is supposed to be completely corrosion free forever) or sell it after replacement for approx. $4 to 4.5K used??? I do love the images that the CCD sensor produces and I know I would miss the camera if I were to sell it. The problem is, I really cannot afford $1200. They have me by the you know what. It seems by what I have read, Leica doesnt even consider case by case situations. They are very strict on their replacement window. I will write them with little hope that they will even respond. Except for the rhetoric of "send it in and we will give you an estimate".  I registered my camera on Leica's site in 2012 when I purchased it brand new.  I was completely out of the loop on the sensor corrosion problem. Leica NEVER informed me of the issue via EMAIL that was tied to my Leica account with my registered M9-P. Even though their website Members Area description states the following:

 

"Everything at a glance. Register your Leica products and organise all product information relevant to you in a single place. You'll also receive important information pertaining to your product"

 

YOU WILL ALSO RECEIVE IMPORTANT INFORMATION PERTAINING TO YOUR PRODUCT. Really? I would say that corrosion of my sensor is pretty important. When stationed in Germany, I emailed their customer service in July 2013 asking about getting my camera serviced for routine maintenance. They never even responded. I had no idea of the problem or the replacement program due to the challenges of Military life, deployments, divorce, and life changes overall. I was not online looking at Leica forums or information. I was dealing with my life issues. It was not until yesterday that I became aware of this problem... now I have to pay approx $1200 to fix it. I would have definitely sent my camera for the free replacement had I been notified by Leica through proper channels...I would think a proper recall or notification to registered owners would have been expected from a company with a premium product? Most people who can easily afford a Leica probably has no real issue with paying the $1200. Mr. Erfahrener above was happy even after paying 1000 euro. I scraped and saved 1/4th of my yearly income to purchase that camera (with lens of course). Which I was confident doing based on their reputation in the industry for quality, I expected it to last at least my lifetime. It saddens me greatly that this is where I stand. I will scrape together and pay another $1200 for my Leica because it is my best option but it is not right. A simple notification to registered owners of these defective cameras would have been the responsible thing to do. This makes me sad more than it makes me angry. Shame on you Leica... 

 

Here is my corrosion... notice the streak in the bottom left. It is pretty bad. I mean it looks like that game with the worm or snake eating the pixelated blocks...

gallery_32647_5934_917215.jpg

 

V/r,

 

Mike C.

Edited by Ad Lucem
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I fully understand your frustration and anger. Fortunately I had my Monochrom v1 checked within the sensor replacement cover period. Early corrosion was picked up before it was apparent on my photos and the sensor was replaced under warranty.

 

However, Leica did not contact registered owners to advise of the problem.  I agree that as it was a production defect the part should be covered for this problem for the 'useful life' of the camera.

 

Have you checked your local consumer protection laws, depending where you bought the camera? You may have protection and a legitimate claim against the local distributors who sold you a camera with a part they have admitted was defective but will no longer replace.  Such laws certainly may apply here in Australia.

Edited by MarkP
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Thanks Mark. I live in the US and the camera was purchased from an online US retailer. I will look into the consumer protection but I don't have high hopes. I will put forth the effort of writing Leica and looking into the protection laws but I am already posting some equipment for sale to pay for the repair. Let's just call it reinforced intuition. I still do love my M9-P ~ It is what it is. 

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In the USA your camera should go the New Jersey. I had both mine done this year, late April, and the total fee was $960 each, as in times 2. Who quoted you $1200 given it seems you haven't yet sent them in? The good news is where I had to wait 3 months for return, seemingly the replacement is now being done with a two week turn around.

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I was estimating $1200 based on Leica's website stating it would cost 982 Euros. I guess I could have excluded the VAT. Either way, $1000 is quite a bit of money for me. Honestly, it really is still worth it to pay for the service. You not only get a brand new CCD sensor but you also receive the following service:

 

• Cleaning and overhaul of the shutter cocking mechanisms
• Cleaning and maintenance/repair of the multifunction wheel
• Cleaning of the main switch and shutter speed dial
• Adjustment of the baseplate locking system
• Refurbishment of engravings
• Renewal of the protective film on the baseplate
• Maintenance/repair of viewfinder displays

 

I believe the cameras that received the replacement sensors have gone up in resale value recently. I do commend Leica overall for handling the situation and providing the service to replace sensors, even on second hand cameras. After further thought, I can't expect them to continue to replace sensors for free on camera over 5 years old. My only real issue is the way the information was disseminated by Leica... or lack thereof. As I stated in a previous post, I have been a member of their site and registered my M9-P upon new purchase in 2012. I should have been notified via the email I registered to their site. They could have easily sent out an email notification of the known issue and the replacement program. I am not sure what they did not do that very thing, especially since their website even states that "you will be notified of important information for your product."

 

I wish I was not living under a rock over the past 4 years or so but it is what it is. I missed out on the "free" replacement but I will still be somewhat satisfied with the $1k service. It will be almost like a brand new Leica M9-P with a new warranty. I am genuinely happy for those who purchased their cameras second hand on the "cheap" (haha, right?) and were able to get a refresh for free. I will end up paying $7500 in total for my M9-P. I can still consider myself getting a "deal" since the camera was $8K during initial release.
 

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I had a complete sensor failure and just got a quote from Leica Germany for sensor replacement: EUR 825.00 + tax (MwSt/VAT), approx. US$ 1,100.00. No mention of turnaround time and final cost until they inspected the camera.

I emailed Customer Care through the German Leica web site (in my best German) and got a reply back with all the information and forms within a few hours. They gave me the option to send it to Wetzlar directly or Leica NJ.

This is a good start - I'll keep things posted as they develop.

 

 

Leica received the camera on Aug. 28 and one week later (Sep. 4) I get a cost estimate back with the anticipated cost of €825 for sensor replacement plus €174.94 for a new display, plus tax, and some very attractive upgrade offers. Because some parts are not available, I didn't get an estimate for repair time (yet – I requested one). Which will determine if I take one of the upgrade offers.

 

And yes, the camera will get a complete overhaul in the process "free of charge".

 

Will keep you posted.

Edited by anachronist
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