Hood fitting problem with 50mm SX black chrome (11688)

[Winedemonium]

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I just got my black chrome 50mm Summilux ASPH (11688).

 

As a number of people who have received their lens have pointed out in this thread http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/242441-new-35-cron-and-50-lux-available-in-black-chrome/, the hood won't fit over numerous E43 filters people have tried.

 

I tried with my Carl Zeiss E43 UVa filter, which attaches to the lens just fine, and in this case the hood also won't fit.

 

I thought I would illustrate the problem for two reasons:

1. As a warning, should this affect any purchase decisions. It would seem a normal E43 filter and the supplied hood cannot be used at the same time. But also...

2. to solicit advice from people less mechanically-challenged than me! Perhaps I'm just not doing this right, and there is actually a solution. Please help!

 

Okay, here are the pictures to illustrate this problem - 

 

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Note the female groove at the top of the lens barrel.

 

The hood has squeeze tabs to pull these grips flush with the lens. The hood has a male groove that stops the hood being lowered any further than this groove. Releasing the tabs moves the grips back out and they clamp onto the female groove on the lens.

 

Attaching this filter (and I presume many others) does not cause a problem with the overall circumference to clear. This one is perfectly flush with the lens barrel.

 

Here is the hood affixed without the filter. Note the height.

 

Here is the hood affixed with the filter. The extra height created by the filter prevents the grips from reaching the female groove on the lens barrel. It has no grip at all really and would come off at the slightest bump.

 

The issue then is one of height. I'm not sure if any filter will be thin enough to avoid this problem.

 

Thoughts...? What am I missing here?

[dwild]

Just picked up my black chrome version and dealing with the same filter issue. I do have an older "slim" 43mm Leica UV filter (must've been from an earlier 50mm Summilux) -- but the thread pitch is different and will not attach.

 

I did just order a B+W filter that looks slimmer in the product description and will have that in a couple days. Sure hope there is some kind of solution because I prefer UV filters to lens caps. 

 

Thanks for for bringing this up in such a well detailed post

 

David

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[Winedemonium]

dwild - good to know about the thread pitch difference in the Leica 'slim' 43mm UV filter. 

 

If you have time, please update us on the B&W filter, including the product number, if you have it.

 

It may turn out that this lens forces one to choose either the hood or the filter. But I'm hoping not.

[hiepphotog]

If there is a tab for a hard stop there, I am afraid it would be an either or situation. I think the tab is there to prevent the lower hood from covering the little dot. Any additional length above the rim of the lens would essentially push the hood away from the mounting groove.

[coelacanth]

I believe this is an inherited problem from the original E43 Lux as far as I could tell from interweb readings.

 

I don't think I'll be using the hood regularly (currently using my BC Lux with regular B+W filter with no hood), but just for the sake of having a complete package, I've tracked down #13206 E43 filter (newer version with blocky font) and it's on its way. I'll report back whether the thread pitch and hood clearance work out.

[Winedemonium]

I believe this is an inherited problem from the original E43 Lux as far as I could tell from interweb readings.

 

...I've tracked down #13206 E43 filter (newer version with blocky font) and it's on its way. I'll report back whether the thread pitch and hood clearance work out.

 

Thanks coelacanth.

 

I just got out my 35mm Summicron 8-element to see if and how it is different. I don't have the correct hood for it, but it is a similar operation in E39 thread. I have the 12585 hood, which is really a 50mm lens hood, but it fits the 35 'cron just fine. As you can see in the picture below, the top of the lens barrel is subtly different to the 50mm Summilux. The filter sits fractionally inside the edge of the barrel. This allows the hood to still find its stop point without being blocked by the filter.

 

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This is an old Leitz filter, so I wanted to see just in case it was an unusual exterior gauge. It's not. Here is a brand new B&W yellow filter - same diameter.

 

 

So it seems this may be, as you suggest coelacanth, the reincarnation of a problem created in 1959, and not fixed in 2015! 

[Michael Geschlecht]

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Hello Winedemonium,

 

The 12585 is the correct hood for the 35mm Summicron, Version I.

 

Please note:  When the above mentioned hood is used in conjunction with The 35mm Summicron, version I & various Leitz filters of the same time period there are no problems of compatability. 

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

Edited June 3, 2015 by Michael Geschlecht

[dwild]

My "slim" 43mm filter has an outside diameter of 43.7mm so it sits in from the edge just like you've illustrated in your previous post, Windemonium. That's how the hood still can lock in position. How'd Leica do it with the 35 Summicron and its reversible hood? (I don't own one of those)

 

Will Leica make another slim 43 UV with the correct thread pitch? I always liked the smooth front and never need to stack filters.

 

Thanks again for all the help

David

[Dartman]

Thank you for making this dedicated thread to the problem, one that is perplexing me and my new aquisition! 

 

As you can see in your 3rd and 4th pictures, there are grooves within the outside edge of the hood. If I insert a B+W N43 filter, it drops onto these threads, but spins without biting. I am wondering if there is a particular filter that could be attached succesfully on this end of the hood?

[Winedemonium]

Hello Winedemonium,

 

The 12585 is the correct hood for the 35mm Summicron, Version I.

 

Please note:  When the above mentioned hood is used in conjunction with The 35mm Summicron, version I & various Leitz filters of the same time period there are no problems of compatability. 

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

 

(emphasis added is mine).

 

That's why I also tested my 35mm Summicron 8-element with a brand new B&W 39mm filter, purchased in 2015. It also works. Actually I have just tested it with a whole range of 39mm filters, old and new, and no problem with any of them when using the 12585. I no longer have the 12504, but I'm confident it would also work as it fits the same as the 12585.

 

So this problem that exists in the 50mm black chrome SX doesn't exist in the 35mm Summicron 8-element, despite the same design principles.

[dwild]

Thanks Windemonium -- I see now -- the front of the outside housing of the Summicron is slightly larger than the standard filter and that's why it works with the reverisble hood.

 

If only this new 50 Summilux was designed the same way, right?

[Winedemonium]

...I do have an older "slim" 43mm Leica UV filter (must've been from an earlier 50mm Summilux) -- but the thread pitch is different and will not attach....

 

It would appear that the original 50mm Summilux took special 43mm filters that allowed the hood to attach. They were 0.5mm pitch.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/leica/filters.htm#43

 

 

I think the thread pitch for the new Summilux black chrome is 0.75mm (I can't seem to find a link to support this). That would mean that the old filter that would clear the hood on the 1960s Summilux won't attach to this new (old) version Summilux.

 

Perhaps someone can confirm.

 

(BTW - I have written to Leica to ask about all this).

[2eleven]

I think the thread pitch for the new Summilux black chrome is 0.75mm (I can't seem to find a link to support this). That would mean that the old filter that would clear the hood on the 1960s Summilux won't attach to this new (old) version Summilux.

 

Perhaps someone can confirm.

 

I can confirm. I have the old 50/1.4 v2 (one of those lenses I'll never sell) and a bunch of the Leica slim filters for it. They do NOT screw onto the new black chrome one. I was semi-unhappy to learn that, but truth be told, I hardly use the hood on the old Summilux anyway because it's bulky and sticks out too much.

[Winedemonium]

Thanks for testing this 2eleven. 

 

So either/or it is then.

[honrts]

It would appear that the original 50mm Summilux took special 43mm filters that allowed the hood to attach. They were 0.5mm pitch.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/leica/filters.htm#43

 

 

I think the thread pitch for the new Summilux black chrome is 0.75mm (I can't seem to find a link to support this). That would mean that the old filter that would clear the hood on the 1960s Summilux won't attach to this new (old) version Summilux.

 

Perhaps someone can confirm.

 

(BTW - I have written to Leica to ask about all this).

 

I can confirm too.  I have the same experience. 

Edited June 4, 2015 by honrts

[Winedemonium]

Leica have responded to me to say they are looking into this issue and will put information on their website once they have found a solution. Once they update me I will post a link.

[dwild]

Well I have to report that the B+W MRC Nano X5-Pro UV 43mm filter I just received does NOT allow the hood to fit -- although it is not as thick as other 43mm filters -- it is the same diameter at the front of the lens. Dang.

 

Really need to find a filter just slightly smaller than the front of the lens with the .75 thread pitch. I know some people don't use lens hoods, but I prefer them -- and filters too. If only Leica would have made the front diameter of the housing just slightly larger than the diameter of their filter (like with the 35 Summicron) OR made a filter just slightly smaller like the early days of the 50 Summilux. Not sure what their thought process was.

 

The search continues...

[Winedemonium]

Incidentally, this was Leica's email response to me:

 

"Hello, sorry to bother you, but a normal filter will not suit on the lens when adapting the lens hood or vice versa. Our Product-Management is looking for a solution, but this will take some time. May I ask for your patience. Sorry for not having an positive answer right now. As soon as we will offer a solution we will spread this on our homepage. Enjoy your day."

[wattsy]

Sounds like Leica are aware that they have goofed up and are probably looking at redoing the hood which I'm sure they will supply to all owners of this lens. Just as an aside, I still haven't read yet whether the hood fits when using a current Leica branded E43 filter.

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[Winedemonium]

Sounds like Leica are aware that they have goofed up and are probably looking at redoing the hood which I'm sure they will supply to all owners of this lens. Just as an aside, I still haven't read yet whether the hood fits when using a current Leica branded E43 filter.

I presume it doesn't work, but it would be great if someone here could confirm that.

 

A new hood... or a reprise of the old filters but with new thread pitch? Maybe some bright spark at "Product-Management" has another cleverer idea. Perhaps we send in existing hoods for 'adjustment'...

 

... Then in 20 years, a Westlicht auction feature a lot:

'From 50mm Summilux special edition black chrome, an original unadjusted hood...'

 

we are a funny bunch!