bencoyote Posted June 2, 2015 Share #1 Posted June 2, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have been pushing the T pretty hard lately and thinking about the UI - which is odd for me since I usually do low level stuff like device drivers and kernel and tools bugs. However, I have a couple of UI refinements that I think would be wonderful if Leica would build them into the next firmware. I sent them off to their Technical Info people but I thought that I'd post them here for reference as well: The ISO should be a grid rather than a scrolling list. The WiFi password really needs a cursor Profiles need to be namable. So we can give them descriptive names like "street" "night" or "landscape". When you are reviewing a picture that does have location info, provide a way to view that This one takes more explaining. I think that the info button really needs to bring up a sub menu. Right now it iterates through a set of modes. Nothing Data fields - with focus scale in MF mode with focus assist enabled Thirds grid Histogram There are two big problems that I have with this mechanism: Many times I want the focus scale even in AF mode and even when I don't have focus assist magnification on. There are a lot of times I want the focus scale and the histogram both on. I really think that without cluttering up the UI you could improve functionality so that "Info" brings up a grid of buttons which allows you to select those options independently I attached a quick sketch of what I envisioned. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! (excuse my really bad drawing of the "focus aid" icon in the bottom left.) This way you can toggle on/off the various elements and do it quickly with your right thumb as needed. The one that really matters to me is decoupling the focus scale from the focus aid (magnification). Many times I can focus just fine in without zooming in but I want to know how big my depth of field is. I even want to be able to view the focus scale some times when I'm in an AF mode. Also doing it like this opens up some other potential alternatives as well. For example the maybe "Histogram" can be "BW" (the normal one) vs "RGB" vs off and Grid can be "thirds" or "single point" or off. I also debate if focus aid should be there or continue to live in the normal settings. It would be a new feature but if it would show "100% white" pixels in red and "0% black" pixels in blue during live view while you are composing and not just when you review the shots, it would be handy when you are selecting your exposure. I think that making the info button work that way is well in line with the simplicity of the UI principle and won't clutter things up but would make it more useful. Another variation of the idea that I had was touching the Info button continues to work as it currently does but holding the info button brings up the menu like I drew above. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! (excuse my really bad drawing of the "focus aid" icon in the bottom left.) This way you can toggle on/off the various elements and do it quickly with your right thumb as needed. The one that really matters to me is decoupling the focus scale from the focus aid (magnification). Many times I can focus just fine in without zooming in but I want to know how big my depth of field is. I even want to be able to view the focus scale some times when I'm in an AF mode. Also doing it like this opens up some other potential alternatives as well. For example the maybe "Histogram" can be "BW" (the normal one) vs "RGB" vs off and Grid can be "thirds" or "single point" or off. I also debate if focus aid should be there or continue to live in the normal settings. It would be a new feature but if it would show "100% white" pixels in red and "0% black" pixels in blue during live view while you are composing and not just when you review the shots, it would be handy when you are selecting your exposure. I think that making the info button work that way is well in line with the simplicity of the UI principle and won't clutter things up but would make it more useful. Another variation of the idea that I had was touching the Info button continues to work as it currently does but holding the info button brings up the menu like I drew above. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/245866-ui-refinements/?do=findComment&comment=2826496'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 Hi bencoyote, Take a look here UI Refinements. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
A B Posted June 3, 2015 Share #2 Posted June 3, 2015 I'll second your ideas expecially in regards to the Info button, too limited right now in functionality. Is there an address to send these feature requests? Best, Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bencoyote Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share #3 Posted June 4, 2015 I'll second your ideas expecially in regards to the Info button, too limited right now in functionality. Is there an address to send these feature requests? Best, I don't know if this is the "right" or best place to send them but I've been sending them to technicalinfo@leicacamerausa.com I usually get a response thanking me and saying that they are passing my comments onto Germany. Part of my reason for going with the T is I see it as a truly innovative product and I wanted to help guide Leica into the future rather than having them survive on the legacy of their past. i believe that the production techniques that go into the T are more apropos to the 21st century than the M or S. I believe that the UI is revolutionary for a camera and stands in sharp relief to other cameras of a similar basic design in a way that is similar to the way that the iphone stood out in comparison to the smartphones which were extant when it was released. I have are never been a fan of SLR and I feel like DSLRs have overstayed the value in the engineering solution to the focusing problem that SLR addresses. Mirrorless is the way forward. So in almost all ways I feel like the T is the way forward. I just feel like Leica needs to: release more prime lenses - this will happen toss a few more engineers on the firmware team Iterate the firmware more frequently fixing bugs and adding refinements adding without clutter to the UI Fix the slow unsleep/device itialization problem run beta tests with competent users release a couple more body styles that use the T mount one with a built in EVF/GPS one more like the X and X vario possibly a Monochrom version 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbealnz Posted June 4, 2015 Share #4 Posted June 4, 2015 Why the heck are you not on the payroll? Great suggestions, really. Gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted June 4, 2015 Share #5 Posted June 4, 2015 toss a few more engineers on the firmware team Does Leica do their own firmware? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bencoyote Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share #6 Posted June 4, 2015 Why the heck are you not on the payroll? Great suggestions, really. Gary Heh thank you. Because I work for somebody else doing something similar. Seriously though, I have thought about trying to find out their engineering manager and see if they'd be willing to let me sign an NDA or something to get access to their source code so that I can dive in from time to time and fix things. In a really big company that kind of thing never happens. In smaller companies sometimes it does. I don't know where Leica is on that scale. From the outside it feels like a small close knit engineering team. I'm guessing no more than 4-5 people working on the firmware for all the models just by virtue of how it feels and the kinds of bugs that appear. I also believe that the M9 M and T at least and maybe the M8 S and the Xs all come from the same original SW stack. For example: I can tell that the problem we have with the slow bootup and unsleep on the T is due to the firmware originally being written for a CCD in either the M8 or M9 and that the M240 has the same problem but it isn't as bad because it doesn't have to initialize the communication with the lens and likely the EVF and because the M isn't as dependent on live view. The reason that I think that this matters is because I get the feeling that these same firmware engineers are probably working on all the products and so the fact that there isn't a new T firmware probably has to do with getting the new S finally out the door as well as the M 246 launch. All of this is just speculative Kremlinology but it is based the sense of how things feel having more than 25 years working on things like this in various sized teams, Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted June 6, 2015 Share #7 Posted June 6, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) The main thing to fix with the T IMO is the autofocus (too slow and often not locking focus) and along the same lines the responsiveness of the camera in general. Outside of that I would also strongly appreciate it if firmware updates didn't overwrite my settings... New primes are needed and ideally Leica publishes a lens roadmap for the next 1-2 years. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bencoyote Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share #8 Posted June 13, 2015 I think that the UI refinement that I would add to the AF for the T is: When you are in AF single or AF spot mode especially when you are using the EVF rather than the touch screen but maybe only when you are using the EVF: 1) use drags across the touchscreen in the top right quadrant to move the focus point. 2) use a double tap in that top right quadrant to recenter the focus point. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A B Posted June 14, 2015 Share #9 Posted June 14, 2015 I don't know if this is the "right" or best place to send them but I've been sending them to technicalinfo@leicacamerausa.com I usually get a response thanking me and saying that they are passing my comments onto Germany. Thanks for the info bencoyote, I did send my requests, in part similar to the your ones, to that address on Friday: so far I received only a confirmation automatic mail. Let’s see. Maybe if more people send their requests, Leica can take the customers’ comments more seriously. release a couple more body styles that use the T mount one with a built in EVF/GPS one more like the X and X vario possibly a Monochrom version I would add a full frame camera with T mount and integrated EVF: it seems to me that the T mount is big enough (50 mm throat size) to receive a full frame sensor, but I'm not expert on this. I think that the UI refinement that I would add to the AF for the T is: When you are in AF single or AF spot mode especially when you are using the EVF rather than the touch screen but maybe only when you are using the EVF: 1) use drags across the touchscreen in the top right quadrant to move the focus point. 2) use a double tap in that top right quadrant to recenter the focus point. A couple of days ago, just out of curiosity, I went to a nearby Leica dealer to try the new Leica Q. I’m not interested in buying it, a fixed focal length camera is too limited for me, but among the great features of that camera, there is the possibility to move a single focus point with the D-Pad while looking thru the EVF. Now, since the T doesn’t have a D-Pad, your suggestion to use part of the LCD as a touch pad to move the focus point is really interesting, but I’m just wondering how easy it is to implement that feature. While you are looking thru the EVF, the LCD has to be turned off and only a part of it should be able to receive touch input: there’s always the risk that with your nose or your face you touch the screen and move randomly the focus point. But again I'm not expert on this, just thinking... Best, Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted June 14, 2015 Share #10 Posted June 14, 2015 The T was an interesting departure for Leica, but why didn't they follow up by using a similar (Audi) design for the Q ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bencoyote Posted June 15, 2015 Author Share #11 Posted June 15, 2015 A couple of days ago, just out of curiosity, I went to a nearby Leica dealer to try the new Leica Q. I’m not interested in buying it, a fixed focal length camera is too limited for me, but among the great features of that camera, there is the possibility to move a single focus point with the D-Pad while looking thru the EVF. Now, since the T doesn’t have a D-Pad, your suggestion to use part of the LCD as a touch pad to move the focus point is really interesting, but I’m just wondering how easy it is to implement that feature. While you are looking thru the EVF, the LCD has to be turned off and only a part of it should be able to receive touch input: there’s always the risk that with your nose or your face you touch the screen and move randomly the focus point. But again I'm not expert on this, just thinking... I haven't done UI work in decades but I don't think it would be very hard. In the old days what we would do is make a transparent window over a portion of the screen (just like a button) and then tell the Window manager to filter out the kinds of events that were not related to dragging. Picking the right size for the window and ignoring the right events would be the key to avoiding nose problems. All ol the things I'm putting in this UI refinements thread are things that I think should be easy to do within the current camera with small amounts of new code, not big reengineering efforts but since I don't have access to the code it is hard for me to say for sure. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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