earleygallery Posted June 9, 2015 Share #301 Posted June 9, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) I really, really, hope this is not the case. I hope that Leica will use the opportunity of a fixed lens on a full-frame sensor to show just how good they can be. To then offer a gimmick such as electronic cropping is to undermine the design in my opinion. I always frame a photograph with the intention of using every millimetre of the film or sensor available to gain the maximum quality available. For a company to even offer the means to degrade this is anathema to me. I know, I don't have to use digital cropping, but as a statement of intent from Leica, who 'concentrate on essentials', it sends a mixed message. All this, of course, it it has digital cropping in the first place. We will soon know. Mike. I'm basically in agreement with you - it seems like someone hasn't got confidence in the choice of a 28mm prime so they added an electronic gimmick of digital zoom. But...we have to see the actual product before making too many conclusions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 9, 2015 Posted June 9, 2015 Hi earleygallery, Take a look here Leica Q -general-. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted June 9, 2015 Share #302 Posted June 9, 2015 I really, really, hope this is not the case. I hope that Leica will use the opportunity of a fixed lens on a full-frame sensor to show just how good they can be. To then offer a gimmick such as electronic cropping is to undermine the design in my opinion. I always frame a photograph with the intention of using every millimetre of the film or sensor available to gain the maximum quality available. For a company to even offer the means to degrade this is anathema to me. I know, I don't have to use digital cropping, but as a statement of intent from Leica, who 'concentrate on essentials', it sends a mixed message. All this, of course, it it has digital cropping in the first place. We will soon know. Mike. This does not prove to me that such a concept is wrong, it rather shows that you are not in the envisaged customer group. Even the Digilux2 at 5.3 megapixels prints excellently up to A4. The average user of the camera will probably never notice any quality loss by digital cropping, even at A3 prints. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rawcs Posted June 9, 2015 Share #303 Posted June 9, 2015 This does not prove to me that such a concept is wrong, it rather shows that you are not in the envisaged customer group. Even the Digilux2 at 5.3 megapixels prints excellently up to A4. The average user of the camera will probably never notice any quality loss by digital cropping, even at A3 prints. Jaapv, I think you are correct, I'm not one of the envisaged customer group, although I'd like to know who you think the envisage customer group is? Given the probable price of the camera, how many of the envisaged customer group will be able to afford it? If the camera does have the same sensor as the M240, which I hear can print to 23" x 36", why would the manufacturer offer an option that will cripple the results to A3? Sorry, and with all due respect, your stance seems like an apology to me. All this, of course, if the digital cropping option is a fact and not a rumour. Mike. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synergist Posted June 9, 2015 Share #304 Posted June 9, 2015 The key word being OPTION...which I would rather have than not. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 9, 2015 Share #305 Posted June 9, 2015 It will probably be meant as a kind of fixed-lens CL. I am not privy to Leica's market targeting, but I would guess that it is aimed at non-geeky customers that want a Leica-M like experience, but don't want to shell out the money for an M body with attendant lenses, don't even want to cart extra lenses around, are not hooked on an optical viewfinder/rangefinder but like a rangefinder-like experience, want excellent quality prints but will not be using professional sizes and techniques. In other words, high-end tourists, occasional shooters who like their photography. As for the price? I cannot find a decent sailing boat under 80.000 Euro, and the Marinas where I live are full of them, most far more expensive. Money there is aplenty amongst the public, the secret is to have it flow into your company's coffers. Heck, it will even be a perfect backup camera for an M-using professional travel photographer. You don't need an Apo-Summicron and more than 10 MP for a magazine cover. 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
prk60091 Posted June 9, 2015 Share #306 Posted June 9, 2015 (edited) Maybe the new leica X could be the first choice As my eyes (and the rest of me) get older the more I need a VF. The add-on VF of the X or T series is *not* acceptable, plus it is FF. Hence the interest in the Q Edited June 9, 2015 by prk60091 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted June 9, 2015 Share #307 Posted June 9, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) ... sensor as the M240, which I hear can print to 23" x 36", why would the manufacturer offer an option that will cripple the results to A3? Perhaps because the prospective customers prints his pictures but rarely even at A3, let alone 24"x36" ? 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rawcs Posted June 9, 2015 Share #308 Posted June 9, 2015 I can see that I'm swimming against the tide here. Nevertheless, I'll keep at it. Electronics allow a camera to have so many features; but just because it's possible to add them doesn't mean that it is a good idea. Why not add a few games for use during down-time - or even a phone? I know, I'm ranting about a camera that hasn't even been released yet. I just feel that I'm going to be disappointed. Hope not. Mike. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted June 9, 2015 Share #309 Posted June 9, 2015 It will probably be meant as a kind of fixed-lens CL. I am not privy to Leica's market targeting, but I would guess that it is aimed at non-geeky customers that want a Leica-M like experience, but don't want to shell out the money for an M body with attendant lenses, don't even want to cart extra lenses around, are not hooked on an optical viewfinder/rangefinder but like a rangefinder-like experience, want excellent quality prints but will not be using professional sizes and techniques. In other words, high-end tourists, occasional shooters who like their photography. As for the price? I cannot find a decent sailing boat under 80.000 Euro, and the Marinas where I live are full of them, most far more expensive. Money there is aplenty amongst the public, the secret is to have it flow into your company's coffers. Heck, it will even be a perfect backup camera for an M-using professional travel photographer. You don't need an Apo-Summicron and more than 10 MP for a magazine cover. Jaap, Leica already have the perfect camera for the market you're suggesting, the X vario or the Dlux would suit much better, don't you think? I'd say the Q is aimed at M owning wannabees who don't like the idea of not having AF or program exposure controls. The type who are currently buying all those Sony's and Fuji's but maybe like the idea of owning a 'proper' Leica. The X and T variants aren't serious enough, the M is a leap too far - so they now have the Q. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted June 9, 2015 Share #310 Posted June 9, 2015 Perhaps because the prospective customers prints his pictures but rarely even at A3, let alone 24"x36" ? True. So why bother with a FF sensor at all? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted June 9, 2015 Share #311 Posted June 9, 2015 The ever growing number of of pixels in a camera has been discussed on and off over a considerable span of time. One of the obvious uses would seem to be to ease the task of framing for those who find that demanding. For those of us not living in cathedrals the ever increasing dimensions of the prints that could be made from those pictures is not an overriding concern. However, a trade-off between resolution and framing is not a very new or exciting idea and can be said to be intrinsic to the task of taking a photograph. Every technical tool which assists framing could be a useful and "valid" photographic tool. Adding functions which are not related to taking or using photographs does not seem to be on the same level. Actually, quite a few digital cameras now in the wild sport some kind of grid lines or auxiliary lines for the sole purpose of assisting the photograph with the framing, should he want such assistance. Cropping within the camera or later in the computer seems to be exactly the same to me. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted June 9, 2015 Share #312 Posted June 9, 2015 Jaap, Leica already have the perfect camera for the market you're suggesting, the X vario or the Dlux would suit much better, don't you think? I'd say the Q is aimed at M owning wannabees who don't like the idea of not having AF or program exposure controls. The type who are currently buying all those Sony's and Fuji's but maybe like the idea of owning a 'proper' Leica. The X and T variants aren't serious enough, the M is a leap too far - so they now have the Q. Yes, M users are certainly much superior to people with other cameras. The X Vario is bulkier and has a smaller aperture than the expected Q. It also lacks a built-in viewfinder. I don't know enough about the D-Lux and I suspect that you don't, either. True. So why bother with a FF sensor at all? To be able to crop and still have a very good picture quality? And to be able to have the use of the full picture for the few occasions when the full resolution is required? 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 9, 2015 Share #313 Posted June 9, 2015 I'd say the Q is aimed at M owning wannabees who don't like the idea of not having AF or program exposure controls. The type who are currently buying all those Sony's and Fuji's but maybe like the idea of owning a 'proper' Leica. The X and T variants aren't serious enough, the M is a leap too far - so they now have the Q. I said the same thing so much kinder 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rawcs Posted June 9, 2015 Share #314 Posted June 9, 2015 To be able to crop and still have a very good picture quality? And to be able to have the use of the full picture for the few occasions when the full resolution is required? So the full frame sensor is there so we can be sloppy in our composition? Some really creative excuses for a redundant feature here (if, indeed it is a feature of the camera) . How many here take a photograph thinking 'I'll crop it later'? Mike. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardM Posted June 9, 2015 Share #315 Posted June 9, 2015 Guys, if I am wrong with my predictions - i will ban myself for 1 month. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rawcs Posted June 9, 2015 Share #316 Posted June 9, 2015 If you are wrong with your predictions I'll ban you for a month! (Oh no, I used a smiley). Mike. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rawcs Posted June 9, 2015 Share #317 Posted June 9, 2015 Can you add smileys to your photos with the Q? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted June 9, 2015 Share #318 Posted June 9, 2015 I really don't understand all the negativity about this cameras specs and features (apart from that like all Leicas it will be expensive). A high quality (we hope) fast 28mm lens on a FF camera with an M240 sensor. I'm a dedicated M user, both film and digital, so I'm not an M entry wannabe! I currently don't have a newer generation compact digital camera have not upgraded my P&S since my D-Lux 4. However, I can see a lot of advantages to a very compact full-frame camera ('digital CL' or whatever) with a fast 28mm and built-in viewfinder. Now I am biased as it's one of my favourite focal lengths, and although I'd be very happy with a 28 I probably would prefer a 35 as a better all-rounder with a fixed focal length. 9 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rawcs Posted June 9, 2015 Share #319 Posted June 9, 2015 I really don't understand all the negativity about this cameras specs and features (apart from that like all Leicas it will be expensive). A high quality (we hope) fast 28mm lens on a FF camera with an M240 sensor. I'm a dedicated M user, both film and digital, so I'm not an M entry wannabe! I currently don't have a newer generation compact digital camera have not upgraded my P&S since my D-Lux 4. However, I can see a lot of advantages to a very compact full-frame camera ('digital CL' or whatever) with a fast 28mm and built-in viewfinder. Now I am biased as it's one of my favourite focal lengths, and although I'd be very happy with a 28 I probably would prefer a 35 as a better all-rounder with a fixed focal length. I'm hoping for great things from this camera too. Like you, I'm not a wannabe (Leica cameras since R4), I just don't want the camera to be spoilt with unnecessary clutter. Concentration on essentials. I'm still hoping and we will all soon find out. Mike. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trule.de Posted June 9, 2015 Share #320 Posted June 9, 2015 (edited) A little more tolerance for those folk who have questions about digital zoom perhaps .... I think one issue here might be that some folk for whom 28mm is not their main FL appear to want to buy this camera and are trying to work out if they can use it comfortably at something difference, like 35mm or 50mm. My advise is that if you buy a 28mm lens, or any other FL for that matter, you should be prepared to use it as is, and not try to find another permanent usage with a crop method. I have a Ricoh GR and that has the crop function. As a 28mm it's great , as 35 or 50 it's ok ... But I only use it that way for birthday shots. If you want a 35 or 50 then you really need a different camera. It's pointless to buy an expensive FF and then use it in crop mode most of the time ... Just get the X IMHO, unless you really want the EVF. Edited June 9, 2015 by trule.de Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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