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The next speculation


jaapv

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I agree with YOU 100%.

 

It it does matter when someone calls it a moveable focus point. These are moveable focus points. When you pick one, and focus, you get focus confirmation.

In the world of mirror less cameras with EVF or LV methods of focusing, these magnified points of focus is referred to as focus points. And has been since day one.

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Non of the Leica M models have a flash off-take jack. No viewfinders can be used on the M cameras, if you want to use a flash.

It seems almost like a conspiracy M owners have not asked for better flash control.

I have raised this before and got no takers... :wacko:...the conspiracy continues... :ph34r:

cheers Dave S :rolleyes:

Count me in - it's a feature I want.

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I would put money on:

 

32-36mp with better high ISO performance

Fast Leica S derived processor .... with everything working much quicker

Leica T viewfinder

Contacts on camera for AF ..... with a range of AF lenses either connected direct or via an adapter

Ability to move focus point as in T in LV

On board camera memory like the T for use without an SD card

Lighter, but more powerful battery

 

Like others ...... I would like:

 

IBIS or similar

Sensor auto clean .......

 

but I doubt the space constraints will allow this without making the camera even fatter .... and to be honest it could do with losing 5mm+ ...... but I fear this is impossible without a big ugly protruding lens flange like the A7 and similar .....

.... and I wouldn't be surprised if the sensor came in at the more modest figure of 32mp ........ not a lot more is gained by 50% more pixels but it does come at a cost ...... lower light gathering power and having to use higher shutter speeds.....

Edited by thighslapper
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I'm puzzled by the reference to the T EVF as some sort of standard to aspire to. It was the poor performance of the T EVF (lag, blackout, slow detection of the eye) that was one of the things stopping me from succumbing to the other attractions of that camera (though its better than the EVF for the M). I now have an Olympus OM-D EM5ii whose EVF is streets ahead.

 

 

This is all down to processor speed and firmware ....... an albatross that has been hanging round the neck of almost all the recent Leica digital products ....... this time round they MUST address this issue so everything is snappy and up to the standard of their competitors .....

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None of the Leica M models have a flash off-take jack. No viewfinders can be used on the M cameras, if you want to use a flash.

It seems almost like a conspiracy M owners have not asked for better flash control.

I have raised this before and got no takers...  :wacko:...the conspiracy continues...  :ph34r:

cheers Dave S  :rolleyes:

 

Count me in - it's a feature I want.  

 

 

If Leica wanted to the could produce an adapter with a hotshoe for the flash situated to the left of the EVF ........ impossible with the current EVF implementation ..... but easy with the T configuration .... which may be why they have done it like this .... :rolleyes:

 

.... I say 'wanted' to because Leica consistently seem to ignore flash and users seem to have plenty of problems as their implementation is often unreliable and not user friendly .... like most I have ended up just using 3rd party flashes in manual mode ....

 

one of the few advantages of being financially incontinent and foolish is that I have a full stable of all the current Leica digitals ...... and in use it then becomes pretty clear which direction Leica is travelling and which current features are going to be used or modified for use in the future .....

Edited by thighslapper
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My ArmchairCEO reasoning is such :

 

- We have a full line of M lenses, very praised and that brings jn very high margins

- Any "new M" (where "M" stands for Messucher) will be sold mostly to current users, who typically are already well equipped with our lenses, which have intrinsically a long lifecycle.  

- So we must announce something that can accept current M lenses (as PRIMARY choice, not as a simple "capability" as the T) ,AND can bring in new users who , in due time, will buy our lenses.

- There are diffuse voices on how much an EVF with extended functionalities (resolution, moving focus point) will be appreciated.

 

So... a partially new platform without Rangefinder , with embedded EVF. native M mount, so a slightly slimmer body, styled how  our brilliant designers will decide....

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An M w/o RF would not be an M any more but just another mirrorless camera more expensive that its competitors. A stillborn camera i'm afraid.

 

With Leica glass a FF non-rangefinder Leica camera would probably sell very well … as proved by the numbers of Sony A7 cameras purchased mainly for use with M lenses.  Such a camera would inevitably cause rioting and despair within the traditional Leica rangefinder users' camp and result in reams of naysayers' posts in excess of those submitted after the XV introduction. But it is probably inevitable and could result in a very competitively priced non-rangefinder, mirrorless camera … which will produce images with that unique Leica image quality. 

 

The 'T' has already paved the way for such a camera ... it would be short sighted not to explore the 'T' design's FF potential … but with an inevitable CMOS sensor. 

 

dunk

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An M w/o RF would not be an M any more but just another mirrorless camera more expensive that its competitors. A stillborn camera i'm afraid.

 

Not this old saw again. Leica made an M camera without a rangefinder back in the 60s - the M1 (released as the MD, MDa & MD2)   If the M  designation bothers you, it could be called a Leica M (for mirror less), because it has  ... an M mount!

 

how about that?  Who'd have thought?  You could probably buy a sticker to give it an RF window!

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[...] The 'T' has already paved the way for such a camera ... it would be short sighted not to explore the 'T' design's FF potential … [...]

 

I don't expect the T to be a success as is, but this is another story, and i'm indeed convinced that an M w/o rangefinder would be an illborn camera. I hope to be wrong of course but it won't happen before long, if any, so i don't hold my breath anyway.

Edited by lct
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A M camera without rangefinder, just with EVF, could expand the possibilities of the system... if the price is correct. 

 

This camera has to be a complement in the M line, not a substitute to the classical Ms. 

 

The question is if such a camera would really expand the system with new buyers never interested in rangefinders (possibility 1), would fail (no sales of the new product, possibility 2) or would cannibalize sales of the classical Ms leaving the total sales of the M system the same (possibility 3).

 

The 1 is the desirable result, but the 2 is a real possibility, considering the global colapse of digital cameras' sales.

 

No easy answers. For a clearer idea you need data from the market.

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An M w/o RF would not be an M any more but just another mirrorless camera more expensive that its competitors. A stillborn camera i'm afraid.

Correct... but I think that they cannot survive on the niche of "we make the best digital RF" ... too easy being the ONLY B) ... M in itself will go on... but I think they ARE thinking of a new platform... and the only way to avoid a part of the risks that this means, is to capitalize on a very solid asset  they have in house, to say the M lenses product line. The other niches they have carved (the S line, Sinar, the Cine Lenses...) are little and (I think) of vague profitability... within the limitations of a high cost brand, they must anyway go into the upper part of the mainstream market, that today is FF digital.

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A M camera without rangefinder, just with EVF, could expand the possibilities of the system... if the price is correct. 

 

This camera has to be a complement in the M line, not a substitute to the classical Ms. 

 

The question is if such a camera would really expand the system with new buyers never interested in rangefinders (possibility 1), would fail (no sales of the new product, possibility 2) or would cannibalize sales of the classical Ms leaving the total sales of the M system the same (possibility 3).

 

The 1 is the desirable result, but the 2 is a real possibility, considering the global colapse of digital cameras' sales.

 

No easy answers. For a clearer idea you need data from the market.

I agree totally with this view : on the optimistic side, I see a mix of 1) and 3)... but the partial cannibalization of M system sales does not pose, in my opinion, a great risk for the Company... provided thay make right choices on the components' side (sensors) the M line can afford longer lifecycle due to slower sales (MM is a good example, imho... MM users, from what we read here, are so satisfied with their camera that could probably wait 1 or 2 year more the M246...)

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How about splitting the M up in two products?

 

The M Classic, and, the M Modern.

 

The classic is a classic rangefinder style camera, like todays M240. The Modern is an EVF based (or even mixed OVF/EVF like the Fuji's), smaller, more affordable version. They share the same sensor and electronics, but just differs in how the cameras can be used, based on the preference of the photographer.

 

Sounds like a good idea to me. Leica would reach a much bigger customer base as well. There are many people out there that hate the rangefinder experience, but love M glass, EVF's and compact high-performing cameras.

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A M camera without rangefinder, just with EVF, could expand the possibilities of the system... if the price is correct. 

 

This camera has to be a complement in the M line, not a substitute to the classical Ms. 

 

The question is if such a camera would really expand the system with new buyers never interested in rangefinders (possibility 1), would fail (no sales of the new product, possibility 2) or would cannibalize sales of the classical Ms leaving the total sales of the M system the same (possibility 3).

 

The 1 is the desirable result, but the 2 is a real possibility, considering the global colapse of digital cameras' sales.

 

No easy answers. For a clearer idea you need data from the market.

 

I do not see myself as particularly innovative. I like it established and proven.

I'm pretty conservative in terms of technical gizmos.

I know that this also applies to the average Leica user when it comes to photographic equipment.

However, it can quickly become fatal to be too happy with its own little duck pond.

 

Cited many times before - one of Steve Jobs's most famous statements:

"If you don't cannibalize yourself, someone else will,"

Read this:

http://yastrow.com/nlarchive/2011/cannibalize-yourself-12-20-11.html

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Whether we like it or not the market demands Autofocus functionality or at the very least Focus Confirmation functionality, (Focus Peaking only much better).

 

So the proposition is a new platform that has some form of EVF for the viewfinder, takes Leica-M lenses and provides Autofocus / Focus Confirmation functionality. 

 

There is no reason why such a platform should look anything like a current M Camera - the Leica V-Lux comes to mind.

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There are many people out there that hate the rangefinder experience, but love M glass, EVF's and compact high-performing cameras.

I hate to assume your definition of "many" but I suspect it's different from mine.  Ik many people who use the M glass they already own on mirrorless bodies more affordable than the Leica M.   Not personally acquainted with anyone who recently went out and paid multi thousands of $ for new M lenses to use on mirrorless bodies though.

 

Whether we like it or not the market demands...at the very least Focus Confirmation functionality, (Focus Peaking only much better).

The way I see it you just described a rangefinder.

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