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The next speculation


jaapv

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Almost all of these are good ideas, as long as we don't end up with a bigger and heavier camera, so this is an engineering challenge for Leica.  

To add to the mix, I would like to see a built in eyepiece diopter. 

However, that is a "like to see" as opposed to a compelling reason to buy. 

Maybe we should separate the "cool" from the "nice to have"  from the "compelling" and the "expect to see" 

 

Compelling reasons to buy for me:

(1)  Better EVF with eye detection like the T (this one should be easy from an engineering standpoint; the T EVF shows the way) (Expected)

(2)  Movable focus point in Live view/EVF (expected)

(3)  Better high ISO performance (tweak the sensor;  I don't care if it stays at 24mp; this too does not seem difficult)(Expected)

(4)  IBIS (an admitted real challenge, but if Sony can do it in its FF mirrorless . . .)

(5)  Sensor cleaning internal (also a challenge but also see Sony)

 

Nice to have:

(1) Make long exposure NR an option that can be turned off;  this is firmware that ought to be doable (expected)

(2) Allow for longer exposures as an option (expected)

(3) Eyepiece diopter built in

 

Cool:

Combined OVF/EVF (very challenging but Fuji shows it can be done; it has to be done to Leica standard, meaning no compromise on the OVF);  I seriously doubt this iteration will have this.

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I feel most of you are expecting too much. Given that the M-P gave us a sapphire, a screw, a lever and some RAM, my prediction is:

  • faster processor
  • side opening battery compartment
  • top plate engraving
  • 240 fps movie
  • wider useable ISO range
  • something awfulsome which we didn't expect

 

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Everybody keeps wishing for movable focus point. I don't think a manual focus lens in a rangefinder system works that way without electronic contact with the body. A Leica lens is dumber than a pile of rocks and I for one want it that way.

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One cas move focus point with manual (Leica M) lenses on my Fuji X-E2. I don't use this feature that much but it can be useful on a tripod especially. The next M will be a rangefinder of course but it will have LV capabilities as well so one could hope that it raises at the level of a $800 mirrorless camera from this standpoint B).

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One cas move focus point with manual (Leica M) lenses on my Fuji X-E2. I don't use this feature that much but it can be useful on a tripod especially. The next M will be a rangefinder of course but it will have LV capabilities as well so one could hope that it raises at the level of a $800 mirrorless camera from this standpoint B).

The Fuji is an autofocus camera so I would fully expect you could move the focus point. M cameras are not and moving the focus point is, in my opinion senseless. You can't move the rangefinder patch. If you need to move the focus point on an M body......why bother. Just use the spot you want to focus on in live view.

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The Fuji is an autofocus camera so I would fully expect you could move the focus point. M cameras are not and moving the focus point is, in my opinion senseless. You can't move the rangefinder patch. If you need to move the focus point on an M body......why bother. Just use the spot you want to focus on in live view.

 

One can move the focus point with manual lenses as well. Works fine with my X-E2 and Macro-Elmar 90/4 for instance. You don't have to move the camera or the tripod this way. Just move the focus point, focus and shoot that's all. Ttry it is adopt it! ;)

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Everybody keeps wishing for movable focus point. I don't think a manual focus lens in a rangefinder system works that way without electronic contact with the body. A Leica lens is dumber than a pile of rocks and I for one want it that way.

I agree to the lenses should be kept simple.   However, when movable focus point was asked for from Leica early on, the response was not that it could not be done but that there was not enough processor power to handle it.   That says to me that better internal processor (which we all assume will be the case with the next iteration) can indeed support a movable focus point.  I think it important to note that what we are taking about not the same as a touch autofocus point on a mirrorless but simply to be able to move what the enlarged view shows in liveview and EVF.   As of now there is no choice.

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My reasoning is thus:[armchairCEOmode] if the next iteration is merely a higher spec sensor, T type EVF etc., the beta cameras are probably out there already. If it is going to be a controversial jaw-dropper with things like a hybrid viewfinder, AF, etc, it may well take till Photokina. But the shareholders must be considered: the 240 is end of cycle,  the 246 is well received, but a low-volume product, the S series is getting a bit tired despite being a succes, the X and the T are slightly in the shade, the sensor saga cannot be helping... Leica needs a turnover boost now.[/armchairCEOmode]

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I'm puzzled by the reference to the T EVF as some sort of standard to aspire to. It was the poor performance of the T EVF (lag, blackout, slow detection of the eye) that was one of the things stopping me from succumbing to the other attractions of that camera (though its better than the EVF for the M). I now have an Olympus OM-D EM5ii whose EVF is streets ahead.

 

On the other hand from my experience with the EM5ii, I cannot see the value of a movable focus point, unless you're spending an age setting up a static shot. Fiddling around with your thumb on the back of the camera while keeping your eye on the action and on the focus point is one step of hand-eye co-ordination too far for me. I'd rather (on the Olympus) use back button focus and recompose, or (on the M) manual focus and recompose. So many people seem to want it, though, so perhaps it grows on you.

Edited by LocalHero1953
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The Fuji is an autofocus camera so I would fully expect you could move the focus point. M cameras are not and moving the focus point is, in my opinion senseless. You can't move the rangefinder patch. If you need to move the focus point on an M body......why bother. Just use the spot you want to focus on in live view.

I don't think you understand how LV/EVF mode works. The magnified selection is simply a magnified (50%/100%) view of a certain selection of what the entire sensor sees. The optical focus patch has absolutely no connection to the focus area in LV/EVF mode. Simply put, the magnified focus area in LV/EVF mode is a 50% or 100% zoom exactly in the middle of the sensor. Leica could easily, in software, implement a feature that would allow you to choose what area of the sensor you want magnified, rather than hard-coding it to the center area.

 

AF or MF lenses, electronic contacts to the lenses, or anything, has absolutely nothing to do with this functionality, as it is purely based on what the sensor sees, and what area of the sensor is magnified. The lens has nothing to do with it. This is purely a software engineering functionality, and nothing else.

Edited by indergaard
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Non of the Leica M models have a flash off-take jack. No viewfinders can be used on the M cameras, if you want to use a flash.

It seems almost like a conspiracy M owners have not asked for better flash control.

I have raised this before and got no takers... :wacko:...the conspiracy continues... :ph34r:

cheers Dave S :rolleyes:

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I don't think you understand how LV/EVF mode works. The magnified selection is simply a magnified (50%/100%) view of a certain selection of what the entire sensor sees. The optical focus patch has absolutely no connection to the focus area in LV/EVF mode. Simply put, the magnified focus area in LV/EVF mode is a 50% or 100% zoom exactly in the middle of the sensor. Leica could easily, in software, implement a feature that would allow you to choose what area of the sensor you want magnified, rather than hard-coding it to the center area.

 

AF or MF lenses, electronic contacts to the lenses, or anything, has absolutely nothing to do with this functionality, as it is purely based on what the sensor sees, and what area of the sensor is magnified. The lens has nothing to do with it. This is purely a software engineering functionality, and nothing else.

That's not moving the focus point. That's moving the magnification patch. It's not the same as moving the focus point (the little red flashing dot on AF cameras).

 

I have cameras with a moveable focus point.

Edited by jdlaing
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Leica are meant to be shot without flash - so a leading edge low light performance (A7s) along with the fast Leica lenses would be very intriguing. And to top it off, an in-body stabilisation (à la Olympus IBIS) one should be added.

 

Leicas are meant to be silent: How about adding a electronic shutter?

 

All of that must not increase body size at all. Rather, if they would find a way to make it smaller (up to the film camera form factor), I would really, really love it.

 

Why???

 

Dave S ;)

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That's not moving the focus point. That's moving the magnification patch.

It doesn’t really matter what you call it. This whole debate is about the ability to select the magnified portion of the live-view image. Leica is fully aware that this is a desired and expected feature and I trust that it will be implemented if technically feasible. Within the constraints of the components comprising the M (Typ 240) it was not.

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It doesn’t really matter what you call it. This whole debate is about the ability to select the magnified portion of the live-view image. Leica is fully aware that this is a desired and expected feature and I trust that it will be implemented if technically feasible. Within the constraints of the components comprising the M (Typ 240) it was not.

I agree with YOU 100%. 

 

It it does matter when someone calls it a moveable focus point. These are moveable focus points. When you pick one, and focus, you get focus confirmation. 

 

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Edited by jdlaing
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It doesn’t really matter what you call it. This whole debate is about the ability to select the magnified portion of the live-view image. Leica is fully aware that this is a desired and expected feature and I trust that it will be implemented if technically feasible. Within the constraints of the components comprising the M (Typ 240) it was not.

 

Thank you.

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It it does matter when someone calls it a moveable focus point. These are moveable focus points.

These are moveable autofocus points. In the context of the M system, focusing is understood to be manual, whether assisted by a rangefinder or a live-view image.

Edited by mjh
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