Please correct me if I'm wrong about 75mm APO-Summilux-M ASPH f/1.4

[Jeff S]

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Due to the ultra-expensive unicorn-fart process, the last 100 Noctiluxes were sold as a ultra-expensive special edition in a special wooden humidor which preserves the fragrance of unicorn-farts.

 

Appropriately sought after by those affected by GAS.

 

Jeff

[adan]

Unicorns and bricks aside....

 

The 75 Summilux (1980) is the antithesis of the direction Leica has taken in lens character since 1990 or thereabouts. Current chief optical designer Perter Karbe has called it his "least favorite" among Leica's many lenses. Much of its look and character is precisely because it is not an APO-ASPH-FLE design (all of which have been introduced over the past 25 years to "correct" some of the exact things that give the 75 Summilux its specific character).

 

I think the odds are practically zero that Leica would "bring back" the Mandler look today. Although they might well decide there is a market for a 75 f/1.4, it will be its own lens - as different from the Mandler lens as the 135 APO is from the 135 Elmarit. Quite probably APO, ASPH, and maybe FLE - and pushing 5 figures in anyone's currency (the previous 75 Summilux always vied with the Noctilux as the most expensive lens in the line).

 

Don't get me wrong - I love how the Mandler design performs. But I can also look at all of Leica's recent designs and see that that is a path they no longer wish to travel.

 

@ uhoh7 - since you've already told us your shots were with the 75 Summilux, it's not hard to see and point out a couple of "Mandler signatures" in your shots. At least ones that comport with the general character of the other lenses he designed in reviving the M line c. 1978.

 

Most markedly, the punch given to cyan in all your shots: skies, blue/green-colored objects, and the shadows of the tin trailer-home (even the "brown" wood outhouse in that shot has a cyan cast). In common with the contemporaneous 21 Elmarit, 28 Elmarit III, 35 Summicron IV, and 90 Summicron compact. The earlier Wetzlar designs tend to be cool-but-blue, while the later Solms designs have shifted towards red.

 

When you start seeing "Van Gogh"-like greens and cyans in your skin tones, shades, woods and neutrals, it's a good bet you're working with a c.1980 Mandler lens.

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/68/Vincent_van_Gogh_-_Almond_blossom_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg

 

http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/gogh/gogh.eglise-auvers.jpg

 

http://www.nortonsimon.org/assets/Uploads/Van-Gogh-Self-Portrait.jpg

 

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/03/29/article-2122087-081DE85C000005DC-924_634x793.jpg

 

Secondly, the openess of the shadows, due to lower macro-contrast.

Edited April 24, 2015 by adan

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[pico]

I dislike Perter Karbe's designs. The over-corrected quality absolutely destroys gentle transitions of, of what - luminance? His lens' outcomes hurts my eyes.  To me it evinces how technical triumph can derail aesthetics, but somebody had to build what he has; at any cost. It is Leica making another Teutonic milestone on the path to nowhere but the bank.

[otto.f]

 

75 Summilux-M's almost 0% distortion, creamy bokeh and ridiculously sharp focused area makes it the BEST (yep all capitals) portrait lens ever produced I call it Mandler's Pieta.

 

Why would you want a new one then?

We haven't seen that much creamy bokeh from Peter Karbe until now. His lenses tend to draw quite clinical indeed, with the Summicron 75 on top. I must say I like the drawing of the Noctilux 0.95 but I would never pay such a price for 1m as a closest distance. The 35FLE is also an exception, it is the first 35lux that convinced me. 

Besides, if a new 75lux would come, the increase in second hand prices of the 75lux could come to a stop, which is not in my interest

[jaapv]

I always see criticism of the limited short focusing distance, yet I rarely if ever see any images taken at less than 2 meters in the photo section. Where are all those pressing-need semi macro shots then ?

[otto.f]

I always see criticism of the limited short focusing distance, yet I rarely if ever see any images taken at less than 2 meters in the photo section. Where are all those pressing-need semi macro shots then ?

I can post some, but this a bit Off Topic  because the 75Lux hasn't got this problem/property

Edited April 24, 2015 by otto.f

[MarkP]

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We haven't seen that much creamy bokeh from Peter Karbe until now. His lenses tend to draw quite clinical indeed, with the Summicron 75 on top.

 

 

Yes, they're so different.  Exactly why I ended up keeping both despite my best efforts to convince myself to sell one of them.

 

 

 

Besides, if a new 75lux would come, the increase in second hand prices of the 75lux could come to a stop, which is not in my interest

 

I don't anything short of the end of Western Civilisation would lead to such an economic disaster 

Edited April 24, 2015 by MarkP

[dritz]

Unicorns and bricks aside....

 

The 75 Summilux (1980) is the antithesis of the direction Leica has taken in lens character since 1990 or thereabouts. Current chief optical designer Perter Karbe has called it his "least favorite" among Leica's many lenses. Much of its look and character is precisely because it is not an APO-ASPH-FLE design (all of which have been introduced over the past 25 years to "correct" some of the exact things that give the 75 Summilux its specific character).

 

I think the odds are practically zero that Leica would "bring back" the Mandler look today. Although they might well decide there is a market for a 75 f/1.4, it will be its own lens - as different from the Mandler lens as the 135 APO is from the 135 Elmarit. Quite probably APO, ASPH, and maybe FLE - and pushing 5 figures in anyone's currency (the previous 75 Summilux always vied with the Noctilux as the most expensive lens in the line).

 

Don't get me wrong - I love how the Mandler design performs. But I can also look at all of Leica's recent designs and see that that is a path they no longer wish to travel.

 

@ uhoh7 - since you've already told us your shots were with the 75 Summilux, it's not hard to see and point out a couple of "Mandler signatures" in your shots. At least ones that comport with the general character of the other lenses he designed in reviving the M line c. 1978.

 

Most markedly, the punch given to cyan in all your shots: skies, blue/green-colored objects, and the shadows of the tin trailer-home (even the "brown" wood outhouse in that shot has a cyan cast). In common with the contemporaneous 21 Elmarit, 28 Elmarit III, 35 Summicron IV, and 90 Summicron compact. The earlier Wetzlar designs tend to be cool-but-blue, while the later Solms designs have shifted towards red.

 

When you start seeing "Van Gogh"-like greens and cyans in your skin tones, shades, woods and neutrals, it's a good bet you're working with a c.1980 Mandler lens.

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/68/Vincent_van_Gogh_-_Almond_blossom_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg

 

http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/gogh/gogh.eglise-auvers.jpg

 

http://www.nortonsimon.org/assets/Uploads/Van-Gogh-Self-Portrait.jpg

 

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/03/29/article-2122087-081DE85C000005DC-924_634x793.jpg

 

Secondly, the openess of the shadows, due to lower macro-contrast.

 

How about the new 100 Summicron-S. I have not had the pleasure of trying it out but it appears to deliberately be an alternative to the clinical perfection of the 120 APO-Macro.  Which, in my experience still renders beautifully.

 

See my photo at:  http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/243713-spring-hangs-its-head/

 

And I have plenty of other examples.  Is the Summicron-S an acknowledgement of Mander?

[CheshireCat]

I can post some, but this a bit Off Topic  because the 75Lux hasn't got this problem/property.

 

If I understand correctly, the first version of the lens has a MFD of 1m. Newer versions focus down to 0.7m.

[espahbodb]

Why would you want a new one then?

We haven't seen that much creamy bokeh from Peter Karbe until now. His lenses tend to draw quite clinical indeed, with the Summicron 75 on top. I must say I like the drawing of the Noctilux 0.95 but I would never pay such a price for 1m as a closest distance. The 35FLE is also an exception, it is the first 35lux that convinced me. 

Besides, if a new 75lux would come, the increase in second hand prices of the 75lux could come to a stop, which is not in my interest

 

Otto seems we are on the same page I got 35LuxFLE chrome 2 weeks ago, haven't had a chance to try it out on a serious shooting but when I did some tests against 35KOB it blew my mind.

I had Nocti0.95 and won't make that mistake again in this lifetime, the distortion is horrendous for a 50mm lens and 1m makes it hardly of any use for me but i'm sure there are many people who use it differently and enjoy it. I have two 75Lux and a 80LuxR just in case 

[biglou]

I dislike Perter Karbe's designs. The over-corrected quality absolutely destroys gentle transitions of, of what - luminance? His lens' outcomes hurts my eyes.  To me it evinces how technical triumph can derail aesthetics, but somebody had to build what he has; at any cost. It is Leica making another Teutonic milestone on the path to nowhere but the bank.

I don't find what you say in the apo-summicron 50mm, a gentle and lovely rendering.

More so in the newer wide angles, i prefer for instance the elmarit 24mm to the newer one exactly for the reasons you give.

[otto.f]

Otto seems we are on the same page I got 35LuxFLE chrome 2 weeks ago, haven't had a chance to try it out on a serious shooting but when I did some tests against 35KOB it blew my mind.

I had Nocti0.95 and won't make that mistake again in this lifetime, the distortion is horrendous for a 50mm lens and 1m makes it hardly of any use for me but i'm sure there are many people who use it differently and enjoy it. I have two 75Lux and a 80LuxR just in case 

Do you see differences between the two 75's? This could of course best be tested with a camera with live view

[otto.f]

I always see criticism of the limited short focusing distance, yet I rarely if ever see any images taken at less than 2 meters in the photo section. Where are all those pressing-need semi macro shots then ?

 

This is one example of how indispensable a close distance in the M system is/was for photographing young children. In the time of film M and R systems, the 75lux for the M was the only one lens that made it possible in the M system to come that close. Only since the M240, this has changed

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Edited April 25, 2015 by otto.f

[otto.f]

Or this one

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[otto.f]

And this one shows for me the beautifull rendering of the 75lux especially at close focus in stills (with M9)

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[uhoh7]

 the 75lux for the M was the only one lens that made it possible in the M system to come that close. Only since the M240, this has changed

 

Yes, it seems my 75 Lux will provide the highest mag for close objects of any of my RF lenses....is this really true?

[espahbodb]

Do you see differences between the two 75's? This could of course best be tested with a camera with live view

 

Sadly yes, the older canadian one is way softer than the new one (75Lux 6bit). 80lux is softer than both at ƒ5.6 its still distinguishable between 80 and 75. 

[bephoto]

 

Most markedly, the punch given to cyan in all your shots: skies, blue/green-colored objects, and the shadows of the tin trailer-home (even the "brown" wood outhouse in that shot has a cyan cast). In common with the contemporaneous 21 Elmarit, 28 Elmarit III, 35 Summicron IV, and 90 Summicron compact. The earlier Wetzlar designs tend to be cool-but-blue, while the later Solms designs have shifted towards red.

 

 

 now that you mention it I remember first thing I realized about the difference between 35kob and 35luxfle was the cooler tone of 35kob. I did a grey card test and it seems 35LuxFLE is way warmer; actually more neutral according to sekonic c500 and graycard.

[otto.f]

Sadly yes, the older canadian one is way softer than the new one (75Lux 6bit). 80lux is softer than both at ƒ5.6 its still distinguishable between 80 and 75. 

About the 75's: Unless you're talking about the older Canadian one with the separate hood, isn't this a wrong suggestion? The production of the 75 was terminated in 2007. So a 75 with a 6-bit code can hardly be other than been serviced afterwards, small chance at least that it was 6-bit coded in production. I know from this forum that if you let it 6-bit coded at Leica, they do a whole check-up and alignment, and that it comes back much much better. Wouldn't that be the cause of the difference?

Edited April 26, 2015 by otto.f

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[IkarusJohn]

Sadly yes, the older canadian one is way softer than the new one (75Lux 6bit). 80lux is softer than both at ƒ5.6 its still distinguishable between 80 and 75. 

 

Im not sure this is right. I have a late Canadian version, and soft it isn't, except at f/1.4 - bear in mind that wide open, the depth of field on the 75 Summilux is thinner than a Noctilux at f/0.95. I have a landscape on my wall taken with the 75 Summilux on my Monochrom - at 1 metre on the long side, it is tack sharp with extraordinary detail.  I haven't checked this, but my recollection is that Puts and others say the late German lenses were no different from the Canadian versions, save that the German versions often used the Canadian parts to make those late lenses. 

 

The 75 Summilux was made from 1980 to 2004. The M8 introduced in 2006 - no 75 Summiluxes were 6 bit coded from new.