New Owner Of Leica M-P Safari Edition Questions!!

[Wetzlar57]

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Hi all..... I Am new to all things Leica and have jumped in at the deep end and purchased the M-P 240 Safari edition... after initially buying the Leica X.

Early days with this camera but I am so impressed with the build quality and sheer weight of it.

A few questions for M 240 owners if I may......

1. Can anyone point me in the direction of a good third party spare battery as I cannot find one in my searching. ...or do we have to bite the bullet and shell out for another Leica branded one? I am in the UK by the way.

 

2. I am struggling with the manual focusing big style at the moment having come from a lifetime of Nikon DSLR's and auto focus. Has anyone got any tips on technique for fool proof sharp focusing?....... and in particular moving subjects.

Not particularly keen on focusing on the LCD by the way so will be persevering with the optical finder. Don't really fancy an EVF either!

 

3. My eyes are not as sharp as they once were.. so to assist in in my efforts to focus with the range finder I have ordered a Leica X4 magnifier. How does this attach to the eye viewer as it is not immediately obvious. I haven't got it yet but do I have to remove the one on the M240 to install the new one. If so, how do I swap them over?

Sorry for the mundane questions...I am sure you have all heard them or similar before....but I am determined to get to grips with this wonderful camera.

Thanks in advance for any replies... I know how busy everyone is these days!

[2wk]

Congrats on the new camera!

 

1. You just paid $10000 for a camera. The batteries are also going to be expensive. Do you really want to risk any problems that could possibly be associated with 3rd party batteries?

 

2. Practice practice practice. It can take years to master focusing with a rangefinder...at least a while to get comfortable with it. There is an ebook called Work Your Leica M that might be worth checking out. If your life depends on a shot, focus bracket or stop down.

 

3. A magnifier just screws into the viewfinder ring. They are usually reserved for longer lenses 75mm +. If you are using it with your 35mm that came with the camera you are going to be heavily cutting into your frame lines.

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[}{B]

You may find that a Leica screw in dioptre adjustment lens helps with the focussing. It won't magnify the image but it may make it sharper. They also fit the magnifiers.

[wparsonsgisnet]

I have owned several Leica digicams and am currently using the M(240).

 

I couldn't recommend more AGAINST buying a cheap battery. You could save $10 and damage your gawd-awful-expensive camera.

 

Also, been using Leica RF cameras for Lots of yYears. I find a vertical line to align in the viewfinder patch, then recompose.

 

If you're working with moving subjects, pre-focus, using some vertical thing that is about the same distance at which you will be taking the picture you wish. I agree it's a problem, but the other virtues of this camera and *The Lenses* are manifold.

 

Good luck, Bill

[bocaburger]

I bought 2 used OEM batteries (in addition to the new ones that came with my cameras). That's the only way I'd cheap out on batteries for these cameras. Leica in-house digitals (as opposed to the rebranded Panasonics) are notoriously finnicky about batteries. Not worth the headache if an aftermarket battery doesn't play well with the body.

 

A 4x magnifier will constrain the field of view in the finder to the point you won't be able to come near framing with your 35mm lens. Lucky if you could make out the 90mm frame lines. And these magnifiers don't flip up on hinges like the old SLR magnifiers did.

 

Focus with the rangefinder can be done in several ways. Obviously, the coincidence of images is one. Another is to find a straight line that passes through the rangefinder patch, watch the edge of the patch and use it like a split-image rangefinder. A third, which I use a lot, is focus by contrast. Even when it's hard to tell exactly when the images come together by sight, the target will assume a "crisper" contrast which can be discerned. This works especially well with subjects that have repeating patterns (like leaves).

 

Subjects that lack contrasting, sharp details on which to focus, can be dealt with by focusing on some other object you figure to be at the same distance. This ties in with one technique for focusing on a moving object (provided it's path is predictable), which is to pre-focus on a stationary object then wait for the subject to "hit the mark" so to speak.

 

The most difficult moving subjects to nail focus on are those moving unpredictably, or skittering about, like pets and little kids at play. Stopping down for DOF helps, but you give up some subject isolation and get background distractions. I have shot those subjects with my Leicas, and I have gotten some nice keepers. But truth be told I get far more with today's crop of multi-sensor-AF dslr's, and if I know my primary subject that day will be those kind, that's the camera I'll bring.

Edited March 19, 2015 by bocaburger

[Wetzlar57]

Thank you all so much for your swift replies!....much appreciated.

I am 'getting it' regarding the third party batteries. Just as well I cant find any as I may have already ordered a couple by now. I will as I say, bite the bullet and buy Leica.

I suppose it would be a bit like putting low octane fuel in a Ferrari wouldn't it!

Regarding the eye magnifier I realise the larger x4 will encroach on the frame lines but I can live with that as I wanted maximum assistance.

When you remove the one already on the camera does it just screw off or what? I tried twisting it in preparation but nothing happened.

[LocalHero1953]

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1. I recall a number of problems people have had with third party batteries. I haven't heard that they do damage, but malfunction is certainly a risk.

 

2. There is nothing else for it but practice, practice, and more practice. And when you're finished, practice some more. And to finish it off, practice. Just sit down with the camera and swing it towards a subject and see how quick you can focus - then repeat.

Focusing on moving subjects manually is always tricky, and I agree with the suggestions given by others. But time and again, and to the irritation of my wife with her P&S and of others with SLRs, the M will get the shot at exactly the right moment, not a fraction of a second later after that massive mirror has been flapped out of the way, or the shutter has been closed, sensels emptied and shutter opened again (Edit: or, of course, after the AF has hunted around and focussed on the wrong thing). If you can identify the decisive moment, then the M will get it for you where another camera will be too late!

Edited March 19, 2015 by LocalHero1953

[TomB_tx]

I agree with LocalHero: practice focusing. I've shot sports with manual focus cameras, including Leica RFs since 1966, and I consistently get what I want better than my tries with automisfocus dSLRs. I love being able to watch the flow of the action outside the normal frame lines. Pre-focus and tweak as needed.

[Manoleica]

Surely you tried the camera before your purchase? You could also try Hyperfocal focussing..

Set the Aperture then use the focus ring as follows,

set the Infinity icon to correspond with the 2, then move the focus ring so the infinity icon lines up with the chosen Aperture turning the focus ring to the right. If you had chosen F8 you will have a focus area from 2.5m to infinity..

But Not moving objects..

[ayewing]

There is no need to worry about non OEM batteries for the Leica M240 series as there do not seem to be any available at present. There are some around for the Leica M9 but most of them will not meter correctly. I am afraid there is no alternative to paying whatever price Leica chooses to charge.

[IkarusJohn]

To be honest, I don't find battery power a problem; even with the notoriously low power M9/Monochrom batteries, I rarely run out of battery power. I guess I'm either slower, or I take less shorts, or maybe it's because I almost never chimp - I set the camera up and then leave the menus and the LCD alone.

 

There's nothing to unscrew with the 4x magnifier. It goes straight into the existing eyepiece. People have complained that it reduces brightness in the viewfinder. I've never found this a problem, provided I keep the eye piece and both surfaces of the magnifier clean. I tend to leave it permanently screwed into the eyepiece of my Monochrom with a 50mm lens - it is a perfect match. With the 35mm Summicron, you will find it hard to see the framelines, but it's not the end of the world. I sometimes use my 21mm Summilux without the external viewfinder (sacrilege for some) - I know the field of view will be wider than I can see and it isn't a problem really. The external viewfinder has a very distorted view, which I find off-putting and I don't like using two viewfinders.

 

In relation to focusing, I won't repeat the advice above - you will get good at it if you persist. I tend to follow Thorsten Overgaard's advice of leaving my lenses on their widest aperture and focused at infinity. Then I know exactly what I have when I take my camera out of the bag (I do use lens caps, though ). I'd start with static objects, find an edge with high contrast (a cheek,eye, nose, teeth, vertical pole, tree, fence post, edge of a house) which is in the plane of best focus for the shot. If you have to reframe, remember that you will need to move your head slightly back if you wish to maintain critical focus. I tend to make a small adjustment with the focus in then slightly out to be sure.

 

Keep your finger away from the rangefinder window!

 

For moving objects, you have to accept that the hit rate will be low. Don't bother chimping, just get used to the small adjustment you need to make as objects come closer, and choose a smaller aperture. It will come, but you do need to be reasonably clinical about what you're doing. You're not going to achieve exactly alignment of the double image or vertical lines on moving objects - you need to (and you will with practice) come to grips with the contrast "snap" of a focused image. One trick is to keep snapping as you focus bracket. There is also a tendency with rangefinder cameras to have the subject dead centre (that's where the focusing patch is). I know I fall into this trap, so I try to maintain focus with the subject off-centre.

 

Good luck - enjoy your new camera. It's a brave move coming from a lifetime of dSLRs and autofocus, but it is very rewarding.

 

Cheers

John

[Wetzlar57]

To be honest, I don't find battery power a problem; even with the notoriously low power M9/Monochrom batteries, I rarely run out of battery power. I guess I'm either slower, or I take less shorts, or maybe it's because I almost never chimp - I set the camera up and then leave the menus and the LCD alone.

 

There's nothing to unscrew with the 4x magnifier. It goes straight into the existing eyepiece. People have complained that it reduces brightness in the viewfinder. I've never found this a problem, provided I keep the eye piece and both surfaces of the magnifier clean. I tend to leave it permanently screwed into the eyepiece of my Monochrom with a 50mm lens - it is a perfect match. With the 35mm Summicron, you will find it hard to see the framelines, but it's not the end of the world. I sometimes use my 21mm Summilux without the external viewfinder (sacrilege for some) - I know the field of view will be wider than I can see and it isn't a problem really. The external viewfinder has a very distorted view, which I find off-putting and I don't like using two viewfinders.

 

In relation to focusing, I won't repeat the advice above - you will get good at it if you persist. I tend to follow Thorsten Overgaard's advice of leaving my lenses on their widest aperture and focused at infinity. Then I know exactly what I have when I take my camera out of the bag (I do use lens caps, though ). I'd start with static objects, find an edge with high contrast (a cheek,eye, nose, teeth, vertical pole, tree, fence post, edge of a house) which is in the plane of best focus for the shot. If you have to reframe, remember that you will need to move your head slightly back if you wish to maintain critical focus. I tend to make a small adjustment with the focus in then slightly out to be sure.

 

Keep your finger away from the rangefinder window!

 

For moving objects, you have to accept that the hit rate will be low. Don't bother chimping, just get used to the small adjustment you need to make as objects come closer, and choose a smaller aperture. It will come, but you do need to be reasonably clinical about what you're doing. You're not going to achieve exactly alignment of the double image or vertical lines on moving objects - you need to (and you will with practice) come to grips with the contrast "snap" of a focused image. One trick is to keep snapping as you focus bracket. There is also a tendency with rangefinder cameras to have the subject dead centre (that's where the focusing patch is). I know I fall into this trap, so I try to maintain focus with the subject off-centre.

 

Good luck - enjoy your new camera. It's a brave move coming from a lifetime of dSLRs and autofocus, but it is very rewarding.

 

Cheers

John

 

Thanks John ...and thanks to all members who have given their time and advise with their replies.

It is a bit of a drastic step going from years of full automation to totally manual I agree. I must be mad, but the Leica bug has been biting for several years now and I am at a time that I find I have more time on my hands so can devote some of it to learn how to use the camera due to my taking early retirement. I fully expect it to be a frustrating journey, but hopefully an ultimately rewarding one.

[IkarusJohn]

It's a good journey.

 

Can I just add that with the AF lenses I've had, the perfectly focused shot was generally more of a fluke than planned - particularly with sports. I'd fire off a huge number of shots to get one perfectly focused shot.

 

Conversely, the hit rate with my MF Leicas is higher; particularly with timing.

[jaapv]

We DO have a FAQ...:

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-type-240/308500-leica-m8-m8-2-m9-m9p.html

 

Question: I come from an autofocus camera background. What is the best way to get good focus on the M9?

 

The M (8,9,240, etc)works the same way as any rangefinder camera, the central patch in the viewfinder is your focusing tool.

It is important to look through the viewfinder in the optical axis. Looking into the camera skewed will result in inaccurate focus.

 

The first thing to do is to ascertain that you can see the rangefinder patch properly. A correct match between the rangefinder and your eye is even more important than it is using an SLR.

Leica sells corrective diopter lenses. Determining which one you need - if any- can be done by going to your optician and holding his try-out lenses between your eye and the viewfinder. The one that allows you to see the rangefinder patch and framelines sharply is the correct one. Order the nearest value from Leica. In a pinch you can use over-the-counter reading glasses for this test. If your eyes need special corrections, you can use your spectacles, provided you can see clearly at 2 metres distance ( the virtual distance of the rangefinder patch). Note that the background will be at background distance,so your eye should ideally be able to accomodate over the distance differential. However, there is some tolerance here.

 

For special cases there are viewfinder magnifiers. They can help, especially with longer and fast lenses and they can give confidence, but they can also be not very useful; they cannot correct errors in the focusing mechanism or your eye, in fact they magnify them.

Also, one loses contrast and brightness.

Leica offers a 1.25x one and a 1.4x. These need diopter correction like the camera, but often of a different value than the camera viewfinder.

 

There are also third-party magnifiers, sold by Japan Exposures, that include a variable diopter correction. 1.15x and 1.35x. For patent reasons they cannot be sold in the USA and Germany for use on a Leica camera, but they can be purchased for use on for instance a rifle scope.

Basically, for an experienced user, magnifiers are not needed and will only lower contrast and brightness, but many users do like and use them.

 

Once the viewfinder is corrected optimally, there are three methods of focusing, in ascending order of difficulty aka training.

 

1. The broken line method. Look for a vertical line in the image and bring it together in the rangefinder patch to be continuous.

 

2. The coincidence method. Look for a pattern in the image and bring it together to coincide. This may lead to errors with repeating patterns.

 

3. The contrast method. Once you have focus by method 1. or 2. a small adjustment will cause the rangefinder patch to "jump" into optimum contrast. At that point you have the most precise focussing adjustment.

 

Side remarks:

 

If you try focusing on a subject emitting polarized light like a reflection it may happen that the polarizing effect of the prism system in the rangefinder will blot out the contrast in the rangefinder patch, making focusing difficult. In that case rotate the camera 90 degrees to focus.

 

 

 

Hi all..... I Am new to all things Leica and have jumped in at the deep end and purchased the M-P 240 Safari edition... after initially buying the Leica X.

Early days with this camera but I am so impressed with the build quality and sheer weight of it.

A few questions for M 240 owners if I may......

1. Can anyone point me in the direction of a good third party spare battery as I cannot find one in my searching. ...or do we have to bite the bullet and shell out for another Leica branded one? I am in the UK by the way.

 

2. I am struggling with the manual focusing big style at the moment having come from a lifetime of Nikon DSLR's and auto focus. Has anyone got any tips on technique for fool proof sharp focusing?....... and in particular moving subjects.

Not particularly keen on focusing on the LCD by the way so will be persevering with the optical finder. Don't really fancy an EVF either!

 

3. My eyes are not as sharp as they once were.. so to assist in in my efforts to focus with the range finder I have ordered a Leica X4 magnifier. How does this attach to the eye viewer as it is not immediately obvious. I haven't got it yet but do I have to remove the one on the M240 to install the new one. If so, how do I swap them over?

Sorry for the mundane questions...I am sure you have all heard them or similar before....but I am determined to get to grips with this wonderful camera.

Thanks in advance for any replies... I know how busy everyone is these days!

Edited March 19, 2015 by jaapv

[Jeff S]

Answers not just to your questions, but other questions you might have in the FAQ.

 

Cross-posted with Jaap.

 

Jeff

[IkarusJohn]

We DO have a FAQ...:

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-type-240/308500-leica-m8-m8-2-m9-m9p.html

 

It's nice to have an exchange, though isn't it? Kind of, friendly?

[Jeff S]

And even nicer to answer questions he hasn't yet thought to ask…with a helpful, friendly link.

 

Jeff

[Wetzlar57]

Thanks for the info guys...... most helpful. I will keep you informed regarding my progress....or lack of it maybe ....as I go along.

One thing I will say is that having unashamedly been a bit of a gear junkie over the years, I haven't felt as excited about getting a camera in years as I have with this Leica. I am already feeling the urge to just go out and take photos all the time.

Lets just say it has rekindled a little bit of passion in me for this great hobby we all share.

[IkarusJohn]

GAS is the next stage in your Leica progression ...

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Herr Barnack]

I have owned several Leica digicams and am currently using the M(240).

 

I couldn't recommend more AGAINST buying a cheap battery. You could save $10 and damage your gawd-awful-expensive camera.

 

Also, been using Leica RF cameras for Lots of yYears. I find a vertical line to align in the viewfinder patch, then recompose.

 

If you're working with moving subjects, pre-focus, using some vertical thing that is about the same distance at which you will be taking the picture you wish. I agree it's a problem, but the other virtues of this camera and *The Lenses* are manifold.

 

Good luck, Bill

@Wetzlar57,

 

What Bill said. If I may, three things -

 

Battery: The M240 battery has a lot of reserve; using live view or making videos (which uses live view) does eat power at a much higher rate than still shooting. If you are shooting 100% still images and not using live view, a fully charged battery will probably last three days, maybe longer. I have one spare batt; two have always been plenty for me. If you shoot a lot of video or use live view a lot, you might want a second back up batt for a total of three. No need for five or six, unless you are going on a month long wilderness trip where you have no access to electrical power to charge batteries.

 

Focusing: I use Bill's vertical line technique a lot; it works. When making a vertical image, I will first focus holding the camera horizontally then recompose the shot as a vertical. This is quicker and easier than focusing while holding the camera in vertical orientation. Also, holding the camera at a 45 degree angle while focusing can be useful, depending on the subject. Hold the camera at a 45 degree angle, focus and then recompose vertically or horizontally.

Moving subjects: Use zone focusing and stop down 2-3 stops from wide open. This will create a zone of sharp focus (which will be deeper with a wide lens than with a 50mm lens or a long lens). If your zone of focus is from 8 to 12 feet, wait till your subject is in this distance to camera range and then make your exposure.

 

An example: If you are doing street photography, focus on a spot on the sidewalk and look at your focus ring to determine the distance to the point of focus. If it is 10 feet and you stop down to f/4 with a 35mm lens, you will have a zone of focus that is "x" feet deep, with 1/3 of that zone being in front of the 10 foot spot and 2/3 behind it. When your subject is not quite to the 10 foot from the camera spot, make your exposure; your subject will be in sharp focus (barring too slow a shutter speed to freeze your subject's movement and/or camera movement, of course).

 

Hope this will help (hopefully this information is not so basic as to be useless or annoying)...

Edited March 20, 2015 by Carlos Danger