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Does Leica service match their great products


F.Juul

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Does Leica service match their brand and their great products? I invite you to an open discussion about this based on my own experience (a little long text maybe).

As many others, I contacted Leica due to some suspicious looking rows of dots on my pictures taken at low apertures. Leica Customer care looked at the samples I sent them and told me that I had to send my camera (M9P) to them to have it checked. Here is my first experience with Leica Customer Care described step wise. It is the service experience that I would like to discuss and not the specific technical problem:

 

> I spent 150 Euro on shipping and insurance to have the camera sent to Leica. I had to make them confirm that they had received the camera. They didn’t do that automatically.

 

> After a short while I got a message from Leica that the sensor was not defective but they would clean the sensor and adjust the rangefinder etc. I was happy with that, and said thank you.

 

> After some weeks of waiting I contacted Leica to hear when they would send the camera back to me. I was told by a technician that I hadn’t communicated with before that there was a lead time of an additional 2 ½ months to have the camera cleaned. At that time they had already had the camera for more than a month.

 

> I contacted Leica and told them to send the camera back to me un-cleaned since I had to use it for a field trip. I was the contacted by the first person that I had communicated with and he told me that they could have it cleaned and send back within a week. I was happy with that, and said thank you.

 

> I got my camera back within the week as promised. However, as I went to check it I was really disappointed. The sensor was very dirty and hair-like strands that were not there before showed very clearly on the pictures even at F4. In fact the sensor was much worse than before and the dots that were the reason for sending the camera to Leica were indeed still visible. Along with the camera Leica had sent a certificate stating that the sensor had been cleaned and the camera cap was “sealed off” with the orange sticker. I personally do not believe that the sensor had been cleaned.

 

> I contacted Leica again and told them in a friendly way that I did not see the problem solved. They returned to me and apologized and suggested that they had my camera back again. I told Leica that I was a bit reluctant to just send the camera back without knowing what would be done to it, and how long time it would take. They told me to send some DNGs that showed the problem, and they would find a swift solution – which I did.

 

> After a couple of days I got a mail by accident from Leica. It was internal communication between my contact and a technician. In the mail I was characterized as being very “unzufrieden” which I actually don’t think was quite right. I had only pointed out the problems as described in an objective way. Internal mails ending up at the customer should really not happen. This is a big mistake in my eyes.

 

> After some additional waiting time I contacted Leica to hear their conclusions, and after some more time I got the message that they needed to have the camera back to overhaul the sensor and evaluate if it needed to be changed. That was actually what they should have done when they got the camera in the first place, and they had already stated that the sensor was OK and cleaned anyway.

 

> I contacted Leica and told them that I could not send in the camera right now because I needed it for a field trip, so I would dry clean the sensor myself to remove the dust, and then send in the camera at a later stage for the other problems. I asked if they could provide me with a device and a method for blowing the dust off.

 

> After some more time I got a mail from a Danish agent that had not been in contact before. They told me that they heard I had problems with dust on the sensor and suggested that I contacted a certain Dealer in Denmark who they know is a Nikon/Canon expert??!

 

> I will now search this forum and find a method to dry clean my sensor myself, and subsequently decide further actions…I need to go shooting rather than writing.

 

I have 15 years of experience with technical service, and to me this is a very inconsistent performance by Leica – both in terms of communication and actions. So, my question: is there any learning for Leica here – and could we give them some constructive feedback and ideas for improvement? What is your experience?

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Hi, sorry to hear about your troubles, if it was me, after the very first hiccup I would have escalated the issue/problem/situation higher up the Managerial ladder without any further delay.. If they think I'm unfriendly - what the *ell" -- it's my money..

As per my Post earlier to-day, I made (1) call to Wetzlar & LMTCMB - within 2 hours had my return call + an email confirming everything.. :D Great Service..Good Luck

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...I was characterized as being very “unzufrieden” which I actually don’t think was quite right. ...

 

They got this one right, at least. "Unzufrieden" is dissatisfied.

 

Sorry for your sorry experience.

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With US Leica service, I always communicate by phone….quicker, more personal, better 2-way communication and more likely to get desired result IMO. On one occasion, my contact even connected me to the technician working on the gear so that I could better understand the issue and solution.

 

Jeff

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Hi, sorry to hear about your troubles, if it was me, after the very first hiccup I would have escalated the issue/problem/situation higher up the Managerial ladder without any further delay.. If they think I'm unfriendly - what the *ell" -- it's my money..

As per my Post earlier to-day, I made (1) call to Wetzlar & LMTCMB - within 2 hours had my return call + an email confirming everything.. :D Great Service..Good Luck

 

By looking at other post in other threads I can clearly see that it is best to use the phone. Jeff S also points that out.

Also it seems as it is frequently necessary to escalate the issue to get things moving. This is to me a sign of something being dysfunctional and that Leica is missing a common service strategy or even proper education of their front line personnel. Escalation should really be something that only happens in very complicated cases.

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By looking at other post in other threads I can clearly see that it is best to use the phone. Jeff S also points that out.

Also it seems as it is frequently necessary to escalate the issue to get things moving. This is to me a sign of something being dysfunctional and that Leica is missing a common service strategy or even proper education of their front line personnel. Escalation should really be something that only happens in very complicated cases.

 

Poor service is sometimes just due to the actual person having an off day..But it is still unacceptable.. I once went to the doctors (UK) with a terrible headache (third day) the lady behind the glass window told me to take generic painkillers and if not better come back in 3-4 days, I said Ok, but first show me your Qualifications for Diagnosing through Glass! the doctor heard me and came out, subsequently I needed antibiotics for an infected sinus..:eek: _ Take no krapp - Give no krapp :cool:

Take Care..L

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This sounds a lot like typical Leica modus operandi to me. I don't think they have ever been much different as regards service and customer relations....after all they are Leica.

The best move on your part would probably have been not to confuse the issue, to just bite the old bulllet, to have left your camera with them in the first instance, to have borrowed or rented a camera

for field trip number one (or even to have forgone the field trip) and to have patiently awaited the return of your camera with the requested work done, which would have happened in due course....as it always does.

 

Oh....and of course Leica's service doesn't match their great products, that is a given, why would you expect anything else?

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This sounds a lot like typical Leica modus operandi to me. I don't think they have ever been much different as regards service and customer relations....after all they are Leica.

The best move on your part would probably have been not to confuse the issue, to just bite the old bulllet, to have left your camera with them in the first instance, to have borrowed or rented a camera

for field trip number one (or even to have forgone the field trip) and to have patiently awaited the return of your camera with the requested work done, which would have happened in due course....as it always does.

 

Oh....and of course Leica's service doesn't match their great products, that is a given, why would you expect anything else?

 

:eek:

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Something in Leica's native (Germany) repair service is just downright broken. I had unbelievably awesome service through Leica New Jersey. So, we ask what the difference might be?

 

Culture?

 

Carry on.

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Something in Leica's native (Germany) repair service is just downright broken. I had unbelievably awesome service through Leica New Jersey. So, we ask what the difference might be?

 

Culture?

 

Carry on.

 

From posts in this forum it seems like Leica NJ are doing something right. But I think that Wetzlar makes very basic service customer management errors which suggests that they are not in control with their processes. I don't think this is a cultural issue - more of a basic set-up issue. (I am danish which is quite close to german in terms of culture). They could easily improve on some basic practical parameters:

> A ticket system so you only send in your gear when there is a timeslot to repair it.

> Standard lead time on replys (i.e. when you have sent the gear to Wetzlar you would like to know that they have received it. For most people this is expensive gear).

> Clear & consistent communication through one person during the complete case

> etc

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This sounds a lot like typical Leica modus operandi to me. I don't think they have ever been much different as regards service and customer relations....after all they are Leica.

The best move on your part would probably have been not to confuse the issue, to just bite the old bulllet, to have left your camera with them in the first instance, to have borrowed or rented a camera

for field trip number one (or even to have forgone the field trip) and to have patiently awaited the return of your camera with the requested work done, which would have happened in due course....as it always does.

 

Oh....and of course Leica's service doesn't match their great products, that is a given, why would you expect anything else?

 

Yes, it seems like I should have chosen to do differently for my own sake. I appreciate your advice :)

 

Leica's products ARE great - it would still be nice to see service work in the same league (and maybe it does for some of you).

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I think this kind of 'service' is seen by most Leica customers as part of the experience of owning Leica gear. The unpredictability of how Leica will handle each issue, and whether it will take days, weeks or months, is all part of the fun.

 

Plus it gives people excuses to buy more Leica stuff, to use while the stuff they just bought is sent off for repair!

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I think this kind of 'service' is seen by most Leica customers as part of the experience of owning Leica gear. The unpredictability of how Leica will handle each issue, and whether it will take days, weeks or months, is all part of the fun.

 

Plus it gives people excuses to buy more Leica stuff, to use while the stuff they just bought is sent off for repair!

 

One has to say that this approach certainly will keep you from being dissatisfied :D

And maybe you are spot on: Why should Leica spend time and resources on improving service, when we just continue buying their gear? (in fact I just got my self a 90 mm APO during all this)

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One has to say that this approach certainly will keep you from being dissatisfied :D

And maybe you are spot on: Why should Leica spend time and resources on improving service, when we just continue buying their gear? (in fact I just got my self a 90 mm APO during all this)

 

Y'all are posting on the border of facetious and sarcastic. I hope.

 

Some of us can buy whatever we want, but live with the economic constraints upon which we were raised, then lived for most of our lives. We also lived in the pre-digital world well into adulthood. I do not like waiting nor spending money like that.

 

Now I'm off to the blacksmiths for new shoes, providing the horse isn't dead. Later.

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I think this kind of 'service' is seen by most Leica customers as part of the experience of owning Leica gear. The unpredictability of how Leica will handle each issue, and whether it will take days, weeks or months, is all part of the fun. !

 

I think these remarks (above) really sum it up rather well....I've certainly had the same thoughts myself (albeit unarticulated).....unfortunately though sometimes it ceases to be fun and just becomes downright inconvenient and unnecessarily expensive.

I have had many moments of (self induced and thus far unreasonable) panic at the thought of something going wrong with my MM and of having to part with it for (what would almost certainly run into) some number of months.

Consequently I plan to buy the new MM when it is released (for backup reasons) which if Leica had a better turn-around time for service and repairs I probably would not do.....

So I guess the Leica "service" deficiencies are some sort of marketing strategy in the ultimate analysis, it certainly seems to work out that way.

Edited by platypus
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Y'all are posting on the border of facetious and sarcastic. I hope.

 

Some of us can buy whatever we want, but live with the economic constraints upon which we were raised, then lived for most of our lives. We also lived in the pre-digital world well into adulthood. I do not like waiting nor spending money like that.

 

Now I'm off to the blacksmiths for new shoes, providing the horse isn't dead. Later.

 

Yes, from my side it was sarcasm. I brought up this discussion because of my experience which I was not amused about.

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I think the crux of this problem isn't anything to do with Leica Service but far more to do with the products they are now making.

 

If you are worried about cleaning the sensor yourself it is presumably because you have been made nervous of doing it with stories of sensor rot or by people who have infected you with their own lack of technical ability. It doesn't need technical ability to clean a sensor, but when owners feel the heavy weight of the camera's price, it's seemingly fragile build, its lack of technical sophistication (no auto cleaning sensor), then up to a point I can see why they would want a free sensor clean by Leica themselves.

 

The first aspect can be quantified if anybody also drives a car and considers the price of that, or the amount of damage that driving can do, so it's worth considering a camera is pretty cheap in comparison to everyday risks. The second is dealt with by realising the M9 is not especially delicate, it is a professional camera used by professionals in all parts of the world and places far more extreme than the average Leica user encounters. The lack of a self cleaning sensor is up to Leica, it's about time they built a camera that led the way with technology rather than scurried after all the other manufacturers for basic technical advances. The apparent need for free cleaning could be avoided by Leica giving owners more confidence in doing it themselves. All that is left could then be dealt with by Leica Service, who wouldn't be run off their feet doing minor jobs that any capable owner could do themselves.

 

Steve

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I think the crux of this problem isn't anything to do with Leica Service but far more to do with the products they are now making.

 

If you are worried about cleaning the sensor yourself it is presumably because you have been made nervous of doing it with stories of sensor rot or by people who have infected you with their own lack of technical ability. It doesn't need technical ability to clean a sensor, but when owners feel the heavy weight of the camera's price, it's seemingly fragile build, its lack of technical sophistication (no auto cleaning sensor), then up to a point I can see why they would want a free sensor clean by Leica themselves.

 

The first aspect can be quantified if anybody also drives a car and considers the price of that, or the amount of damage that driving can do, so it's worth considering a camera is pretty cheap in comparison to everyday risks. The second is dealt with by realising the M9 is not especially delicate, it is a professional camera used by professionals in all parts of the world and places far more extreme than the average Leica user encounters. The lack of a self cleaning sensor is up to Leica, it's about time they built a camera that led the way with technology rather than scurried after all the other manufacturers for basic technical advances. The apparent need for free cleaning could be avoided by Leica giving owners more confidence in doing it themselves. All that is left could then be dealt with by Leica Service, who wouldn't be run off their feet doing minor jobs that any capable owner could do themselves.

 

Steve

 

Hmm. In general I can’t say that I disagree with you, it all makes good sense and it is valid input to Leica as well. However, I sent my camera to Leica to have it checked for sensor defects and NOT to have it cleaned. THEY offered me to clean and adjust the sensor, which I basically didn’t expect. The camera was returned with certificates and seals etc. stating that it had been cleaned, but it was not cleaned and in fact more dirty than it was before – which Leica more or less have admitted and apologized for.

 

It is amateurish to build up expectations at the customers end and then not living up to it in terms of performance and quality control. Then it would be better not to promise anything. Among the other issues I mentioned, this is to me very much related to service, and is in this case very bad customer service management. Leica should have a clear and uniform way to handle this so that the regular customer knows what to expect. I know that some of the issues I mention may be trivial for some of you, but it just doesn’t bring Leica Service on par with their products, which is what I wish to discuss with all of you. (Maybe Leica also do a bit of reading in this forum – who knows?)

 

As mentioned I will in fact do my own sensor cleaning which is really needed now, and I will do it based on instructions that I most likely can find in this forum – without contacting the Nikon/Canon dealer that I have been encouraged to contact.

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[...] The first aspect can be quantified if anybody also drives a car and considers the price of that, or the amount of damage that driving can do, so it's worth considering a camera is pretty cheap in comparison to everyday risks. [...]

 

I keep my better vehicle in a red leather presentation case except for a periodical drive to the dealer for a CLA and polishing. My 2011 has 505 miles on it, and I do worry that is quite enough.

 

OTOH, I carry the M9 on walks and recently I collided with a DSLR the size of an SUV with the structural integrity of an egg shell. I'm not upset at all. Call it a guilty pleasure that I walked away laughing.

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