Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
ken_tanaka

The M8's Wacky Cyan Wide Edges

Recommended Posts

Have you checked the EXIF if the lense is correctly recognized?

 

Yes, indeed.

 

@Scott: Experimentation with the ON versus the ON+UV/IR produces no noticeable difference with this lens. Also, although the pre-1.102 effect was somewhat of a 4-corrner vignette, today the effect seems to be more of a light cyan cast over the entire image with a greater concentration on the right side.

 

I have not tried a "Leica" brand filter as Leica has not sent any to me (I ordered a 46 and 55), and I'm beginning to abandon anticipation. If that fixes the problem as Sean and others suggest, terrific. But, well, you know what I think about the general situation.

 

Thank you all for your thoughts and ideas. I will report back when/if I ever get a Leica-brand filter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So Ed it cleans up pretty good at 24mm that is good to hear. I was hoping the B+W would work on this focal length at least until we can get a leica filter or not get one , nice to know this works

 

I can confirm that Guy, the 24 does rather well with B&W with no obvious problems. I cannot compare it with the Leica filter obviously, but let's put it this way: it is that it is a free filter that I will be getting at some point of time, but I would not spend one dollar to buy it over the B&W one, the way it looks now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've just bought a pre asph 21mm elmarit and don't have an UV/IR filter for it yet. If I use it without UV/IR filter will I still have problems in the corners?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I've just bought a pre asph 21mm elmarit and don't have an UV/IR filter for it yet. If I use it without UV/IR filter will I still have problems in the corners?

 

No, just IR contamination.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Below is a CS3 Bridge thumbnail panel showing the six 21mm f/2.8 Elmarit images recorded under various conditions. ALL images:

- are of a closed fabric window blind in bright overcast on a warm morning,

- were taken at very close range with the camera on a tripod.

- were recorded at ISO 160, f/5.6, 1/500 s,

- were recorded as DNG files and had no adjustments to the image settings (beyond what Bridge / ACR performed naturally).

 

The top three images were taken with NO 486 filter. The menu's "Lens Detection" settings are Off, On, and On+UV/IR, respectively from left to right.

 

The lower three images feature the same menu settings, left to right. But I've now mounted a B+W 486 filter on the lens.

 

Certainly in this case it looks like setting Lens Detection to On and removing the 486 filter produced the best results, although still tinged with cyan.

 

Cost: $8,500 + filter.

 

/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://www.pbase.com/image/78834044.jpg&key=75f9429fc5c6f0bfdce7460df97c6c509a226c91b8f9c9aaea301db427aebf4c">

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest tummydoc

Certainly in this case it looks like setting Lens Detection to On and removing the 486 filter produced the best results, although still tinged with cyan.

 

Cost: $8,500 + filter.

 

I'm not in the least surprised the best results were achieved with no filter, in fact I'd expect that to be the case with every lens unless there was an abundance of IR reflected from the subject, which there is not in these examples. If you were to repeat the test using a black nylon curtain lit by an incandescent bulb I think the filter + ON/IR would give you the best result, although still far from perfect. As I have pointed out in the past the firmware corrects an average value, which is sometimes spot-on and sometimes more or less than adequate. This I've found to be true with the Leica filter on the 28 Elmarit and Summicron, although like everyone I presently do not have one for my 21-ASPH. The weak on-sensor IR filter may have been unavoidable with current technology but the lens-filters and the requisite cyan corner correction is not a totally perfect patch. Although some people try to characterise the M8 as the world's best digital camera, to me it is but the best-available digital body for Leica -mount rangefinder lenses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
{snipped}Cost: $8,500 + filter.

 

 

Hey Ken, I didn't want to say this at first, because I still have limited experience with the filters, but the Leica ones *are* different on wides.

 

So I would wait till you get that Leica filter, honestly.

 

As for the very slight vignette apparently still in evidence on your 21mm unfiltered (I don't see much cyan there, to be honest, but then I don't know if this is white balanced at all), well, I'd be surprised if any ultrawide available is completely immune from some vignetting, regardless of the price of the system--even with the advantage of the crop factor.

 

Certainly my 1ds2 & Canon EF 20 vignetted quite horribly, and it was distorted as heck (not to mention soft wide open).

 

Cost: $10,500 when I bought it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guy_mancuso

Bottom line you need the Leica filter for the 21mm or don't shoot with any filters right now with the 21mm until the 55mm comes out, the B=W leaves a cyan cast still. No one seems to understand this simple fact . the 1.102 firmware is designed for the Leica filter PERIOD with the UV / IR ON, that is all leica cares about. They do not care what a CV, Zeiss, B+W products are doing. they can only control what they make or specified to be made for them. This witch hunt helps no one , get the proper tools or deal with the results yourself and if you use a B+W filter on any lens the color will be slighty off globally. There different filters and you need to adjust using the B+W filters with a little tweak in your raw program. I see they tend to be a little green globally compared to the Leica filter. So that adjustment needs to be made

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bottom line you need the Leica filter for the 21mm or don't shoot with any filters right now with the 21mm until the 55mm comes out, the B=W leaves a cyan cast still. No one seems to understand this simple fact . the 1.102 firmware is designed for the Leica filter PERIOD with the UV / IR ON, that is all leica cares about. They do not care what a CV, Zeiss, B+W products are doing. they can only control what they make or specified to be made for them. This witch hunt helps no one , get the proper tools or deal with the results yourself and if you use a B+W filter on any lens the color will be slighty off globally. There different filters and you need to adjust using the B+W filters with a little tweak in your raw program. I see they tend to be a little green globally compared to the Leica filter. So that adjustment needs to be made

 

Guy,

 

I agree. I was going to send my Leica 43mm filter back and ask for the other 46mm to which I had changed my order but too late, as it was already packed. I already have a B+W 486 43mm for my Biogon 35mm but after seeing how much better the Biogon 21mm behaves with the Leica filter than the 486 I had borrowed I am going to keep the silver (ughhh!) 43mm Leica filter and put the black 486 away in a bag to get forgotten. I now of course, have to buy another 46mm Leica filter for my Elmarit-M 90 and arghhhh a 60mm for the Nocti. I want to protect the front element of the Nocti anyway.

 

Wilson

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guy_mancuso

Were the leica filter is really going to count is 21 and below and certainly can use the B+W above 21mm but folks need to know there is a slight color shift here these filters are different and just need to understand they will fix the cyan at 24mm up but you may notice it slightly greener overall. I am in the process of going all leica filters because frankly i am lazy and don't want to fool around between lenses but like everyone else i am using 55mm and 60 MM B+W on two of my lenses until leica ' comes in there for the 75 lux and 90 apo. The waiting stinks I totally agree but it is a leica vendor making them so some hands are tied there. Also sorry if i sounded a little pissy, this is just confusing to people and it has to be clear so folks can take a path that makes perfect sense and have options so they don't waste money on stuff. hell i already did it for them, i have more filters than Viagra here. ROTFLMAO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"This witch hunt helps no one , get the proper tools or deal with the results yourself and if you use a B+W filter on any lens the color will be slighty off globally."

 

"Witch hunt"? Hardly. I'm hardly on a social cleansing mission, Guy. These demons are real. Very real.

 

So this has now, per your proclamation, become the official current evasion of the issue? We grimaced at learning that this ridiculously expensive camera needed ridiculously expensive and scarce filters to shield its "special" Kodak sensor from infrared light.

 

Now having spent hundreds on the best grade of these filters I could find (I've not received any from Leica) you (as Leica's spokesperson?) proclaim that I have pissed my money away on "improper tools", as only the Leica special filters will work.

 

Absolutely incredible, in the strictest definition of the word.

 

I think I need to just set this whole mess aside for a few months to get back to real photography with reliable, well-designed equipment. I've chuckled along for a while but this goddamned little camera is beginning to get under my skin. Maybe it will shake itself out in a year or so.

 

Absolutely incredible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guy_mancuso

Ken how long have you known about the issues at hand , come on. We knew in November it has a IR issue. Maybe the word witch hunt was drastic , okay shoot me but you keep going in circles knowing full well you need a Leica filter for the 21mm , it has been said at least 30 times between me , Sean and others. You have the wrong filter for this lens and wonder why it is not working. Your results are exactly what they should be with the B+W it still is leaving a cyan cast.

 

Ken i have also pissed my money away on B+W 67mm brand new still unopened and 2 55mm and a 60mm. Bottom line they don't work good on the 21mm and lower. I'm using some of them on the longer lenses. i have more B+W filters than i care to admit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it is fair to say that most of knew that any 486 filters we bought or borrowed, were in the nature of a stop gap until the real article was delivered. The 486 seems to give a very strong green cast with Zeiss lenses and orange colours are also over-saturated for some reason. That is the reason I only bought one 486 and was lucky enough to borrow a 46mm 486 from a friend who had bought it in error, thinking it was just a UV one for lenses he uses on an M6. Like Guy, I have a drawer full of useless filters that I must get around to selling on eBay. I have a nearly complete set of Cokin P colour, graduated and optical filters plus about 6 different sized adapter rings from 55mm up to 82mm - all completely useless on an M8.

 

Wilson

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ken, life's too short. The camera is as it it. Send it back or sell it and buy something that doesn't offend your sensibilities.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ken how long have you known about the issues at hand , come on. We knew in November it has a IR issue.

 

Of course I knew about the IR issue before I bought the camera.

 

But when did this cyan fringing problem become an IR issue?

 

@Steve: Yours is perhaps the best advice I've seen in a while. Since my last post I've already put the whole M kit away. Perhaps I'll break it out again later this year when the bad taste of all this nonsense fades. Maybe it's partly this fan-site that I need to avoid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand you Ken. We are spending enormous amounts of money on both the M8 and it's lenses and even after getting those expensive filters it ain't 100% perfect. I shoot mostly B&W so it's not a huge issue for me, but shot some color today and I'm somewhat a little bit disappointed with the colors I'm getting. In B&W it's nice, but certainly could have better DR.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guy_mancuso

The cyan fringing is from the filters and because the angle that these filters pass normally the visable light is about 40 degrees in our terms 35mm and the wider the lens the fringing gets bigger ( sort of like grid spots). Basically it is cutoff. So what firmware 1.102 did with ON UV?IR is compensate for that cyan fringing. Hopefully I said that so it can be understood. maybe someone can describe the exit stuff of the filters.

 

Bottom line Ken when they added the IR filters it brought in cyan cast and now what Leica did was develop 1.102 to get the cyan fringing removed. Long story short they designed that around the Leica specs and reason the B+W which are different specs still leave a cyan cast from 21mm and below.

 

Okay since you did not know this which i assumed you did , I apologize because i based my comments off you knowing why the cyan cast gets there in the first place.

 

There are multifaceted things going on and if you get in the middle than hard to understand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really don't want to leave this topic, or perhaps this forum, seeming to trail a fart cloud in a virtual huff.

 

I really do thank folks here for offering their thoughts. I realize that many who visit here share my disappointment with the M8's general state of affairs. My two "wacky" threads were intended to keep some critical shortcomings from disappearing from sight, not to irritate or dishearten other owners.

 

To-date I've shot approximately 4,000 images with my M8. While the camera has certainly let me down on more than a few, I've let me down on at least as many. But the M8's also produced some fine results, a few samples of which are below.

 

As I've said here, and elsewhere, before I appreciate that Leica delivered the M8 at all. I just want them to realize that the camera's not yet finished and to survive to get it done.

 

Personally, when a camera demands more attention than my photography I know it's time to make a change. It's time to for me put the M8 away and refocus my energies on photography.

 

Magdalena Abakanowicz's "Agora"

/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://www.pbase.com/tanakak/image/77792309.jpg&key=2c89b241110e202f66ba5f180b152bd100e661551c300076f933bea2ec2f6de6">

 

My Current Banner Image

/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://www.pbase.com/tanakak/image/77806920.jpg&key=1d566fb06080f12d7b8ce20179889ec99f1238d97ecea3e6c8776a1287e3c3e6">

 

Snowy Cloud Gate

/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://www.pbase.com/tanakak/image/74349473.jpg&key=7d884742d79a7b54c3aab551bd46d3420aca8ed7b8a37ffaa6410774f4fee921">

 

Foggy Segways

/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://www.pbase.com/tanakak/image/76263183.jpg&key=bd8f3b36c2b809ea91f6f14136636a35106e568a4846203d500fa8a72bde2987">

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...