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U.S. Upgrade Price for M240 or Replace Sensor

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I read somewhere that Leica will offer users of M9s with bad sensors the opportunity to upgrade to the M240. Has anyone received one of these offers and if so, how much would the upgrade through Leica have been?

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If you send an affected camera in Leica will make you an offer on request, taking age and condition into consideration. (Of the camera, that is, not the owner)

Edited by jaapv

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Upgrade is Leica option, not user choice unless offered.

 

My GUESS is they will replace sensors as long as they are available and parts+labor is less than what Leica believes the 240 value is

 

If a new sensor cover can be developed in reasonable time, that will be the preffered choice for Leica assuming it is cost effective to change them..

 

At some point economics will dictate the only choice will be a discount on new camera.

 

Right now, sensor change is what is being done.

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Let me see if I understand this correctly, since my M9 is presently in New Jersey, being inspected and having the sensor cleaned/replaced as indicated. If my camera checks out within specification, and only needs cleaning, it will be worth less in a trade than if it is defective? That is, if the sensor is corroded, the M9 is worth $3500- US in part exchange for an M240. If it's perfect, then KEH says my camera worth $2100-2200. Did I miss something?

 

Originally, I felt that the sentiment expressed by some that the trade-in offer for the "upgrade" to the M240 should be extended to all M9/M9P/ME owners was not really a good idea; certainly expensive for Leica to do this. Now I am becoming persuaded that this would be more fair than their current possible arrangements. It certainly gives me pause as to what to do with my MM, which was scheduled to go to the mother ship next.

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That is, if the sensor is corroded, the M9 is worth $3500- US in part exchange for an M240.

 

With current M discount ($6500 new in US), then the 'value' of your M9 would be $3000 (given the $3500 upgrade cost). If your M9 is mint, Popflash might value it at $3200 or so retail (just a guess), which means that you'd get 87%, or about $2800, if it sold in the first 2 weeks (80% thereafter). Not too far apart. Of course this math changes if the M discount disappears and/or the M9 used value diminishes (and most places take a much higher commission on consignment than Popflash).

 

One way to look at it is that the upgrade isn't a general upgrade per se; rather it's a replacement cost for a 'defective' machine. No defect, no replacement needed, as you'd already have a nice working camera.

 

Leica walks a fine line between pleasing folks who got stuck with defective goods and not alienating others.

 

Of course if your camera is fine and you want an upgrade, you could always clean the sensor often and hang out in some really humid climates.

 

Jeff

Edited by Jeff S

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I do understand that Leica has a good reason to take the position that they have. I suppose what is critically important [to what is, after all, not a huge corporation, as has been noted on LUF by others] is whether or not all the cameras with sensors in the series are affected and will fail at some point. It is to their advantage to replace sensors, as needed, rather than replace ones which are functioning properly. Were they to simply offer an upgrade/replacement/part-exchange to everyone with an M9/MM/ME, I suspect they would be flooded [even more than they probably already are] with customer service requests, not to mention large costs.

 

To be sure, they have continued make an effort to demonstrate good will. Now that I think of it, my 28mm Summicron was purchased at a very low cost directly from Leica, as part of their acknowledgment of the IR problem on my early M8 and their effort to maintain positive relationships with their customer base. That I went on to purchase an M9, then an MM, indicates that their efforts were successful.

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Yes, it equates to a $3,000 value when you upgrade to the M240. Problem in my case is that I would never spend $6,500 on a new Leica, so I would rather sell for slightly less and find a used M for $5k.

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Well, in talking to Leica NJ today, it looks like the sensor on the M9 may be grimy, but not corroded. It looks like I will get a CLA out of this, without cost. Thus, the question of valuation by Leica is moot, for now, at least for me. I, too, would hesitate on the M240 at it's current, discounted cost, but perhaps a demo or used one in the future, with prices settling a bit.

 

I must say, having what amounts to an open ended sensor warranty (for as long as parts last) is encouraging.

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Let me see if I understand this correctly, since my M9 is presently in New Jersey, being inspected and having the sensor cleaned/replaced as indicated. If my camera checks out within specification, and only needs cleaning, it will be worth less in a trade than if it is defective? That is, if the sensor is corroded, the M9 is worth $3500- US in part exchange for an M240. If it's perfect, then KEH says my camera worth $2100-2200. Did I miss something?

 

Originally, I felt that the sentiment expressed by some that the trade-in offer for the "upgrade" to the M240 should be extended to all M9/M9P/ME owners was not really a good idea; certainly expensive for Leica to do this. Now I am becoming persuaded that this would be more fair than their current possible arrangements. It certainly gives me pause as to what to do with my MM, which was scheduled to go to the mother ship next.

 

Although I understand your thought process, this is not a lottery. Digital cameras drop in value over time. We know that. The owner of a non-defective camera gets what they bargained for -- a camera that has dropped in price but that remains able to do what it did when he bought it until he decides to upgrade. The owner of a defective camera did not get what he bargained for. He gets a $7000 camera that is fit only for the trash and that he can't use at all unless he shells out over $3000 whether "ready or not." You must understand, the defective cameras are JUNK. They are USELESS.

 

You have a choice. Those victimized by Leica's second MAJOR mess on a flag-ship camera have NOTHING but a big price that is less than you will pay but more than they may want to pay given Leica's AWFUL track record.

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Although I understand your thought process, this is not a lottery. Digital cameras drop in value over time. We know that. The owner of a non-defective camera gets what they bargained for -- a camera that has dropped in price but that remains able to do what it did when he bought it until he decides to upgrade. The owner of a defective camera did not get what he bargained for. He gets a $7000 camera that is fit only for the trash and that he can't use at all unless he shells out over $3000 whether "ready or not." You must understand, the defective cameras are JUNK. They are USELESS.

 

You have a choice. Those victimized by Leica's second MAJOR mess on a flag-ship camera have NOTHING but a big price that is less than you will pay but more than they may want to pay given Leica's AWFUL track record.

 

To be quite truthful, you can have your camera repaired, and FOC at that. This is not a lottery, either.

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The owner of a defective camera did not get what he bargained for. He gets a $7000 camera that is fit only for the trash and that he can't use at all unless he shells out over $3000 whether "ready or not." You must understand, the defective cameras are JUNK. They are USELESS.

 

In what way are they "USELESS"? Most cases of the sensor corrosion are not so defective that the camera cannot continue to be used and Leica are, in any case, replacing the defective sensors. The cameras are very far from useless.

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I think I can add to this thread constructively given that I had a (used, bought on eBay) M8.2 that was affected by the "coffee stain" on the LCD. What Leica offered was an upgrade path to a camera (in my case a used M9, new M-E or new M240) at a very fair market value trade-in. I would imagine that this will also apply here with the M9 if a sensor repair/replacement is not available (as was the case with the M8.2 LCD).

 

No free lunch here but kudos to Leica for offering what was effectively a "buy back" on a five year old digital camera to someone who was not the original owner, having purchased it via a well known auction site. Clearly if I did not have the funds to take up the offer I would have been left with no option but to continue using it with the faulty LCD, although the actual images taken would not be affected (most people opine that th LCD was not very good anyway - although I found it perfectly usable - even with the stain). I took up the upgrade offer as I was considering upgrading at the time and I wanted to protect my investment already made (and not lose out on the resale value of a defective M8.2).

 

I guess if you have a faulty sensor and no free repair is available then this would be a different matter - although from reading here this would not appear to be the case.

 

James

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In what way are they "USELESS"? Most cases of the sensor corrosion are not so defective that the camera cannot continue to be used and Leica are, in any case, replacing the defective sensors. The cameras are very far from useless.

 

Exactly. I never knew my M9 had sensor corrosion until I checked for it by performing a clear sky shot at f22. The effects were never visible in any of the regular images I took. So now my M9 with a new sensor performs in my hands just as it did with the corroded one.

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