steve203 Posted January 5, 2015 Share #1 Posted January 5, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have a T with the 23mm but always really fancied a Leica M. Absolutely loved the T as my first Leica but should I get the 11-23mm lens and stick with it or go for a used M9? Anyone here made the change? Any opinions? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Hi steve203, Take a look here T or M9?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wda Posted January 5, 2015 Share #2 Posted January 5, 2015 I would just point out that you are comparing two different size sensors. The M9 is full-frame with natural benefits, depending on your planned usage. The M9 is older and has suffered from some sensor corrosion. But Leica have asserted that they will repair such equipment, free of charge, regardless of warranty status. So that should not over-influence your decision. I have no experience with the T. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 6, 2015 Share #3 Posted January 6, 2015 I have a T with the 23mm but always really fancied a Leica M. Absolutely loved the T as my first Leica but should I get the 11-23mm lens and stick with it or go for a used M9? Anyone here made the change? Any opinions? Two totally different cameras. The Leica M is a classical rangefinder with a full-frame sensor and a minimalist interface, the T is an ultra-modern APS point and shoot type camera with a bleeding-edge interface and the option of interchangable lenses and EVF. Both are equally capable of excellent images, but differ in just about any other aspect. It really comes down to your personal preference. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bencoyote Posted January 6, 2015 Share #4 Posted January 6, 2015 I have a T with the 23mm but always really fancied a Leica M. Absolutely loved the T as my first Leica but should I get the 11-23mm lens and stick with it or go for a used M9? Anyone here made the change? Any opinions? Here is what convinced me to go with the T vs the M. Though I really honor the tradition of quality and the philosophy of getting to the essentials of photography, I would like to be part of Leica's future rather than part of their past. I think that the T is an innovative new physical design, milled out of the block of Al rather than assembled out many different parts. The techniques to manufacture things have changed over the past 60 years. As a relatively low volume manufacturer Leica needs to employ the modern tools of industrial production to make their product to reduce the cost of labor to manufacture the products. CNC with few parts is probably a really smart idea and makes a quality part with much lower labor input than assembling an M body. Maybe in the future the M will have a new body with the essential design features of the current M240 but will be made using techniques closer to the T. The T's user interface is by all accounts revolutionary for a camera. While the T is still evolving and still has several glitches, it stands in sharp relief to the featuritis found in most if not all mass produced Japanese cameras. I wanted to use my economic power and whatever bug finding skill I have fostering the development of something new and innovative. I also hope that my feedback and feature requests will help make a better next product. I hope that the future M260 or whatever it is, will use aspects of the T's UI rather than continue with the old M firmware. I wanted to support Leica and help foster their success. While buying a used camera may free someone else up to buy a new M, it is much more direct to support Leica by buying their new camera. At least for me. It really isn't about the camera, it is about the photographer. I would say that until you really reach a point where there is a huge compelling reason to buy the next camera work on the art of taking pictures rather than getting a new camera. Do you need more MP for those giant prints your selling at the galleries? 16MP for the T vs 18MP on the M9 isn't going to buy you that much. Do you need the higher ISO of a FF sensor? You're not going to get that with the M9's old sensor. Do you need more dynamic range to bring out the detail in those high contrast situations. Not really the M9's strongest point in comparison to modern camera sensors and oh by the way you lose live view with CCDs vs. CMOS sensors. The only two really valid reasons that I can think of to change to a M9 are: you want the bokeh of a FF camera or you want the rangefinder experience. If you need to spend money it is probably a better investment to get more lenses. I tend to use the 18-56 outside in the day in really good light (Watch your background because with a 3.5-5.6 a lot more will be in focus) and use the 23 indoors and outdoors at night. This works well for me. However what I really would like is: 35mm f/1.4 Summilux as a walking around lens, I find 50mm equiv works better for me. 60mm f/1.4 Summilux I really want a good fast portrait lens. If they made it a macro as well that would be awesome! 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted January 6, 2015 Share #5 Posted January 6, 2015 Well..... I have ... or have had them all. T and M9 images are pretty indistinguishable in terms of resolution and colour fidelity and general 'leica' look..... T handles higher iso much better ..... NR is less intrusive and images look cleaner. The M9 with M series lenses produces better images ....... but that's because of the lenses .... stick them on a T and the results are superb...... The M9 cost is not the main issue ...... it's the investment in M lenses that is going to punch holes in your pocket .... unless you stick to Zeiss or older series used ones ...... The 'Rangefinder Experience' is not for everyone ...... although it is quintessentially what Leica traditionally is all about and is very rewarding if you are willing to invest the time and patience to master it and can cope with the slower and more considered approach to photography.... If I had to rate the available Leica offerings in terms of enjoyment of use and quality of the results , the scale would go .......M240, MM, X-Vario, T, M9 ....... I'd keep the T and invest in a few M series lenses ...... even the older ones will give great results used manually... and give you an idea if you can be fagged to go back to manual focussing...... and they keep their value (unlike the cameras) so you can always trade them in with minimal loss..... Bear in mind there are more T lenses just around the corner to add variety as well.... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bencoyote Posted January 6, 2015 Share #6 Posted January 6, 2015 If I had to rate the available Leica offerings in terms of enjoyment of use and quality of the results , the scale would go .......M240, MM, X-Vario, T, M9 ....... May I ask why you rate the x-vario more highly than the T? That surprises me and from what I understand the guts are pretty similar. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 6, 2015 Share #7 Posted January 6, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Yes, but on the XVario lens and electronics are finetuned to one another. The T by definition has to be more universal. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted January 7, 2015 Share #8 Posted January 7, 2015 Yes, but on the XVario lens and electronics are finetuned to one another. The T by definition has to be more universal. Jaap said it. The lens is better ..... and as Jaap says a custom design by Leica specifically for the camera .... plus you can focus down to 11cm or so. It is also more like a traditional camera and functionally I find it more intuitive to use. The BIG advantage of the T is the fact you can use M series (and other) lenses ...... but that's only really is a bonus if you have existing Leica lenses ...... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted January 11, 2015 Share #9 Posted January 11, 2015 Jaap said it. The lens is better ..... and as Jaap says a custom design by Leica specifically for the camera .... plus you can focus down to 11cm or so. It is also more like a traditional camera and functionally I find it more intuitive to use. The BIG advantage of the T is the fact you can use M series (and other) lenses ...... but that's only really is a bonus if you have existing Leica lenses ...... Another advantage is the T is faster (Focus) and the EVF is IMO considarably better than that of the X-Vario. So if you are also shooting kids or moving subject I find its easier with the T. The T Zoom is Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted January 11, 2015 Share #10 Posted January 11, 2015 Like bencoyote, I tend to use the T with the zoom in daylight when a want a smaller camera for walk about - as the M cameras only take manual focus primes, it's a different event. I do wonder if I'd be better ditching everything and just using my M9. Even with its limitations, it's a superb camera, if you enjoy photographing in a traditional way. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted January 11, 2015 Share #11 Posted January 11, 2015 I haven't used a T but it looks like there are little advantages in size versus an M. And IQ is excellent with both. It's all about usability. See if you can try out the M9 first. Whatever tool you choose, you should feel at ease with it. As said above, the M camera will feel completely different. For me, as a rangefinder was my first "serious" camera", it feels natural and intuitive, but if you are used to a smartphone interface it will take some getting used to. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynp Posted January 11, 2015 Share #12 Posted January 11, 2015 My wife uses the T and my Summiluxes migrated into her camera locker. She complains that the T have no fast AF primes between 35-75mm. If you are interested in portrait photography, I think that a fast M lens or two would be a nice compliment to the system and could be sold easily if Leica introduce a portrait lens in the future. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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