D-Lux 109/LX 100 -- Made in Japan/China

[jrethorst]

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Extensive discussion on the various Leica / Panasonic collaborations over time and statements from manufacturer reps all indicate that the Leica and Pana variants are in fact made on the same assembly line, with minor variations e.g. grip, and Leica firmware may be differently tuned.

 

That one is labeled Japan and the other China reminds me of the 70s, when Japanese manufacturing quality was assumed by Americans to be inferior to American quality. A lot of things were actually made in Japan, then shipped to the US and some trivial last step was done here and the item was labeled Made in USA. I wonder if that’s what we’re seeing here.

[lct]

Difficult to say. The fact that final assembly is made in China (LX100) and Japan (DL109) could mean that quality control is also made separately in each country eventually. Some samples of the two cameras have got the same issues with their correction lens though so QC was faulty in both cases from this viewpoint.

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[hbmobile]

Some samples of the two cameras have got the same issues with their correction lens though so QC was faulty in both cases from this viewpoint.

 

 

That's the point. The fact that right now both cameras have similar problems (do not forget many faulty diopters) indicates it does not really matter whether an item is China or Japan labelled.

 

The recent Lumix FZ200s come from China, whereas in the beginning they were made in Japan. So I guess Panasonic is more and more on the move to China.

[leica270]

Extensive discussion on the various Leica / Panasonic collaborations over time and statements from manufacturer reps all indicate that the Leica and Pana variants are in fact made on the same assembly line, with minor variations e.g. grip, and Leica firmware may be differently tuned.

 

That one is labeled Japan and the other China reminds me of the 70s, when Japanese manufacturing quality was assumed by Americans to be inferior to American quality. A lot of things were actually made in Japan, then shipped to the US and some trivial last step was done here and the item was labeled Made in USA. I wonder if that’s what we’re seeing here.

 

I am not sure about the chinese made , but what i tested was the made in japan

 

personally, i always prefer the japanese made!

[vikasmg]

Extensive discussion on the various Leica / Panasonic collaborations over time and statements from manufacturer reps all indicate that the Leica and Pana variants are in fact made on the same assembly line, with minor variations e.g. grip, and Leica firmware may be differently tuned.

 

That one is labeled Japan and the other China reminds me of the 70s, when Japanese manufacturing quality was assumed by Americans to be inferior to American quality. A lot of things were actually made in Japan, then shipped to the US and some trivial last step was done here and the item was labeled Made in USA. I wonder if that’s what we’re seeing here.

 

I'm not sure where all this China/Japan concern comes from. Chinese made iPhones are some of the best made devices there are. I don't think that these days geography of the assembly/manufacturing makes as much difference as who designed the product.

[Le Chef]

I can never understand the biased attitudes about country of origin that exists here. Preference for Japan, rejection of China, utopian Germany all smack of ignorant prejudice.

 

Do these people ever read about the global economy and realize that companies the size of Panasonic have global QC standards that mean it makes no difference where the product is made?

 

BMW has plants on 3 continents and sets global QC standards, as does Mercedes etc. Your car may be German in name but parts come from global suppliers and production can be in South Africa, Germany or USA.

 

The notion that "Made in Germany is best" is nonsense in a global economy with global QC scores, and BMW would have no hesitation in telling you it was nonsense.

 

And if people here could cast aside their prejudices about cameras made by Panasonic for Leica maybe the could get back to talking about photography...

[jrethorst]

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Le Chef, I agree completely. All I can think of, to explain the difference in labeling, is that Leica preferred that their camera be made in Japan.

[georg]

Did you ever work in an international production network?

 

I did, it was a nightmare! I optimized processes together with highly experienced production workers (trained for 42 months or more, often more than 10 years of experience, earning more than 60000$/year). After the optimization proved to be successful, we transfered this know-how to other locations (Turkey, China...). How much improvements we got from those locations? None. We just had to justify our salary costs (actual production costs were often cheaper, anyway!).

 

Now I help to make products that are simply too demanding to outsource or offshore.

 

What is considered high-quality in an IPhone? ALL the implented production technologies were developed outside China. I like the design and choice of materials as well, but the use of plenty unskilled slave workers as stupid "ape assembly" is outdated since 100 years, when visionaries like Ford/Siemens/Bosch helped to create the middle-class. No need to look up to "Made in China"

 

It does not make a difference if you work 35h/week for 4000$ or 60h/week for 400$ in Chinese slave labour? It does not make a difference if you are trained, working with high standards? Foxconn claims to be unable to use assembly robots because they don't meet the tolerance requirements of 0,02mm... That's state of the art since 20 years in high-quality mass production.

 

We don't know what "Made in Japan" actually means (production, final asembly, QC?) for the D-Lux but it might make a difference. Even if it's only a sign for Panasonic to stick to higher standards without actually affecting the quality of each D-Lux.

[lct]

Enough of a reason to justify the price... perhaps .

[bjmike]

Mercedes, BMW, VW, GM/Buick, all manufacture in China. Senior executives at GM have said to me that quality in their Shanghai plant was actually BETTER than they saw in any of their similar plants anywhere else in the world. They also were anxious that that fact was not widely shared, for rather obvious political reasons.

In terms of quality, it's pretty hard to justify a choice of national origin as a deciding factor. In terms of racism, nationalism, politics, and so on -- even if it's disguised as a quality issue -- it should be seen for what it is.

As far as I'm concerned, if Panasonic and/or Leica stand behind their own products, it's okay by me. Just as with the the auto industry, the brand is the thing. There was a time when the Chinese themselves would pay a premium for an identical product when it was made outside of China and imported, over a Chinese domestically produced product. Those days are long gone -- and there are few consumers (as a group) as sometimes nonsensically picky as wealthy Chinese can be.

[lct]

[...] if Panasonic and/or Leica stand behind their own products, it's okay by me. Just as with the the auto industry, the brand is the thing.

+1

[williamgm]

When I bought my Leica Digilux 2 about 18 months ago (from a long-established UK Leica dealer), on both occasions when I was in the shop Chinese tourists were there looking at used Leica equipment. In fact, at one point I was surrounded by a group of them, all waiting to look at the Digilux once I'd finished trying it. It all got a little intimidating, so I left; I called again the next day, expecting it would have sold but no, apparently (so the salesman told me) because it was made in Japan. He said they are only interested in Leica equipment that has 'Made in Germany' clearly marked on it. They will not consider 'Japanese' or (even worse) "Chinese' Leica cameras/lenses!

[lct]

Not that surprising from the part of people who can afford to go shopping to the other side of the earth.