Guest Posted December 4, 2014 Share #21 Posted December 4, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) ... Thanks, shouldn't the assessment of technical equipment such as lenses and cameras first be done by facts and results? In the following preparation for a community of fans then may be somewhat promotional show or be incorporated the personal taste of the examiners, but please without distorting the facts. Otherwise it might be difficult to take such examiners for serious. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 Hi Guest, Take a look here Let's discuss the Super-Angulon. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
joeswe Posted December 5, 2014 Share #22 Posted December 5, 2014 Thanks, shouldn't the assessment of technical equipment such as lenses and cameras first be done by facts and results?In the following preparation for a community of fans then may be somewhat promotional show or be incorporated the personal taste of the examiners, but please without distorting the facts. Otherwise it might be difficult to take such examiners for serious. I do think that his reviews are fact based, it is his writing style that is not very matter-of-factly by making fun of this and that along the way. Still, he examines lens sharpness under more controlled, but still real word conditions, than most other internet experts, who just post a couple of hand held shots. He gives correction numbers for lens distortion in Photoshop at various distances and so on ...So, no, I don't think KR is "distorting facts". It's more that some readers can handle the irony, others don't. If you take every single word at face value and out of context you will come to the conclusion that he is contradicting himself all the time. He isn't. It's just that some readers cannot distinguish ironic statements/jokes from factual ones. So, when he writes about a "crappy little Voigtländer lens" then this is purely ironic, you will realize that when you have read a couple of reviews, where he praises some CV lenses (he will condemn others). Same with the running joke of the "Leica man", who "of course only deserves the best". You must be able to read between the lines. This is not everybody's cup of tea, so I understand that a lot of people criticize him. In a way, he is an stylistic anti-thesis to the clinical, factual (but often confusing and sometimes indeed contradictory) writings of E. Puts. In the end, I prefer both to self-proclaimed superficial and boring Internet experts like S. Huff and the like. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted December 28, 2014 Share #23 Posted December 28, 2014 From today - 21mm f/3.4 Supper-Angulon-M on Leica M8-2 with Series 7 UVIR filter. Not bad for an old lens. Clearly shows characteristic square diaphragm flare. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/237734-lets-discuss-the-super-angulon/?do=findComment&comment=2736707'>More sharing options...
pgk Posted December 29, 2014 Share #24 Posted December 29, 2014 And another from today. On the M8 and at f/8-11 this lens delivers very acceptable results even by today's standards - though some reviewers may make comments about edge micro-contrast, its not a problem in reality. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 10 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/237734-lets-discuss-the-super-angulon/?do=findComment&comment=2737464'>More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted December 31, 2014 Share #25 Posted December 31, 2014 The Super-Angulon 4/21 is very small and light. Here with MDa, nice combo : Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/237734-lets-discuss-the-super-angulon/?do=findComment&comment=2738577'>More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted December 31, 2014 Share #26 Posted December 31, 2014 Even with M8, it does work fine, with some sort of "special light glow" not found in more modern 21mm: Filet de lumière au cimetière de Montmartre Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/237734-lets-discuss-the-super-angulon/?do=findComment&comment=2738588'>More sharing options...
Guest JMF Posted January 11, 2015 Share #27 Posted January 11, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) 21 SA 3.4 on M8: Rio de Janeiro by JMF_, on Flickr 21 SA 4 on M8: crianças by JMF_, on Flickr This very 21 SA 4 had a separation problem when this shot was taken and has since been taken care by John at Focal Point Inc. 21 SA 3.4 on Hexar RF: Christophe Simon and the children of Cidade de Deus during a photography workshop. by JMF_, on Flickr I also have a 21 pre asph Elmarit yet I use these SA lenses a lot more ! Cheers Jean-Marc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JMF Posted January 14, 2015 Share #28 Posted January 14, 2015 21 SA 4 on M9: Untitled by JMF_, on Flickr la visite by JMF_, on Flickr Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_livsey Posted January 19, 2015 Share #29 Posted January 19, 2015 I read the SA f3.4 for M received a coating update from serial 2 500 000. Is this true? is that serial exact? Does it justify a premium? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted January 19, 2015 Share #30 Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) The only modification I have read about is indeed around 2.500.000 : from 2.473.251, but it ought to be only on the mechanical and finishing side (cutout flange to fit M5, black finish with knurling at base... prior to this there was also a slight modification of the focusing lever) : Van Hasbroeck wrote that it was also "recomputed" from the above s/n, but basic design didn't change... don't remember to have read something about coating, but seems to be very probable that the process has evolved during the long life of this lens, as it was also for other lenses.. at the times of its introduction coating was still a rather "new" technology... I think that the improvements are probably with little effect on the image quality in itself and did adress more the robustness/durability of the coating : many lenses from the first years of coating have it damaged by cleanings of the front element. Edited January 19, 2015 by luigi bertolotti Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_livsey Posted January 19, 2015 Share #31 Posted January 19, 2015 The only modification I have read about is around 2.500.000 : from 2.473.251, but it ought to be only on the mechanical and finishing side (cutout flange to fit M5, black finish with knurling at base.... Yes I was aware of the physical change @ that serial and agree that coating changes were most probably made without note. This coating statement was on another forum and referred to, as would be expected with the kind of change, an increase, minor, in contrast and improved colour rendition but was very specific on that serial mentioning the prior physical change as well so no confusion in the authors mind. I have the f2.8 Asph 21 but the rendition in B/W does not please me, the CV 21mm in Nikon S mount I find preferable but can one have too many 21s ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted January 20, 2015 Share #32 Posted January 20, 2015 ...This coating statement was on another forum and referred to, as would be expected with the kind of change, an increase, minor, in contrast and improved colour rendition but was very specific on that serial.... In that case, maybe the authors did refer to a general improvement of the coating process at Leitz factory... 2.500.000 is a number which doesn't belong to Super Angulon; by the way, this lens, afaik, was manufactured by Schneider Kreuznach, which probably did also the coating. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_livsey Posted January 20, 2015 Share #33 Posted January 20, 2015 Schenider did manufacture the lens, after all it was their design! This FAQ would imply a coating change later than that serial. FAQ 8. When did Schneider begin multi-coating lenses? The first Symmar-S lens to be multi-coated was the Symmar-S 150mm, serial number 13,014,862 in March 1977. The 210mm followed and then the rest of the focal lengths were completed by early 1978. The Super-Angulons were multi-coated in the summer of 1978 beginning with the f/5.6 series. This would refer to the large format range I assume but cannot be years out for the 21mm f3.4. That would put that coating change at around 2 809 401 in Leica numbers (the original number quoted would be around 1971). Perhaps only that very last batch of 150 in 1978 were possibly multicoated or maybe they just didn't bother changing for those few? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted January 20, 2015 Share #34 Posted January 20, 2015 Perhaps only that very last batch of 150 in 1978 were possibly multicoated or maybe they just didn't bother changing for those few? As the FAQ says that this started with the f/5.6 series, and since I assume they would batch build the lens for Leica (who did the finishing assemly I wonder, Schneider or Leica?), I'd suggest that it would be reasonable to assume that multi-coating was never applied to the M series SA for Leica. The batch you refer to was of R lenses according to this site's f/3.4 SA wiki although it notes that the run of serial numbers contains some f/3.4 M lenses - as confusing as ever! It might be that the last runs of the f/4 R lens were multi-coated though as these were produced until 1983? Whilst my (1968) M lens has a touch of 'Scneideritis', I've never found overall contrast to be a problem and my copy produces punchy enough images as it stands. So personally I wouldn't pay a premium for a later, potentially multi-coated lens. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orient XI Posted January 25, 2015 Share #35 Posted January 25, 2015 I bought a secondhand 21mm f/4 Super Angulon in 1989 that had been debayonetted. I doubt that there was a special adaptor since an ordinary Leitz screw to bayonet adaptor allowed it to be used on all my M (film) bodies. The lens had a bad reputation for vignetting, but the extent of the vignetting was greatly increased by the low latitude of the colour films of the time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted January 25, 2015 Share #36 Posted January 25, 2015 I bought a secondhand 21mm f/4 Super Angulon in 1989 that had been debayonetted. I doubt that there was a special adaptor since an ordinary Leitz screw to bayonet adaptor allowed it to be used on all my M (film) bodies.The lens had a bad reputation for vignetting, but the extent of the vignetting was greatly increased by the low latitude of the colour films of the time. Maybe it was a Super Angulon in screw mount, orginally made/sold like this : the SA f4 in bayonet mount were identical to the screw mount version : at the factory , they added a special made adapter which is held in place by an incredibly little screw : if you remove it, the only way to recogniza an originally BM lens is thet ther is a (very small) hole, radial, into the thread : little, but easy to find if is there: anyway, standard BM adapters are perfectly usable. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted February 8, 2015 Share #37 Posted February 8, 2015 Although its not as good wide open as a stop or so down, the f/3.4M SA is still surprisingly effective and delivers very usable images wide open and into the light. Wide open it also loses its characteristic square flare artifacts and produces pleasant round ones instead together with a fine multi-coloured sunburst. This is again on the M8 from a walk through local woodland today. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/237734-lets-discuss-the-super-angulon/?do=findComment&comment=2761536'>More sharing options...
Guest JMF Posted February 25, 2015 Share #38 Posted February 25, 2015 21 SA 3.4 + Oufro on M240 M2 + 5cm Summicron by JMF_, on Flickr Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsevilla Posted May 2, 2016 Share #39 Posted May 2, 2016 Even with M8, it does work fine, with some sort of "special light glow" not found in more modern 21mm: Filet de lumière au cimetière de Montmartre What a great shot. I'm considering the sa21/3.4 for my m6, m9 and 240. Useful information here. Thanks!! Enviado desde mi Aquaris E5 FHD mediante Tapatalk Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JMF Posted May 3, 2016 Share #40 Posted May 3, 2016 (edited) What a great shot. I'm considering the sa21/3.4 for my m6, m9 and 240. Useful information here. Thanks!! Enviado desde mi Aquaris E5 FHD mediante Tapatalk Yet, remember it will foul the lightmeter cell on any M body and a minus 2 + 2/3 to minus 3 stops compensation will be required and it still will not be 100% reliable . Better rely on an external light meter on the M6. Sold my other 21 SA 4, 21 Elmarit and kept the SA 3.4 ...! Edited May 3, 2016 by jmanivelle Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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