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scott kirkpatrick

Beyond 1.102 -- time for a new laundry list?

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....Where else does this class of problem occur -- difficulty backing out of something that the camera has decided to do?scott

 

Nothing personal here Scott but your comment brought a smile to my face, I've yet to see my M8 decide to do something other that what I've told it to do. Be it make an exposure with the lens cap on and the resulting time delay the camera has calculated due to my mistake or the timer delay because I've set the switch wrong, hardly the camera having a mind of it's own. LOL

 

To the general discussion I'd like to put on record

One of the appealing factors of the M8 is the uncluttered simple method of taking photos, CW metering AV or manual exposure were what drew me to the M8. Granted this has been further complicated by the need to factor in the UV/IR filter and lens coding to overcome some unforeseen image quality issues but by in large the camera is rather simple as far as digital cameras go and I'd like to keep it that way. I do however agree that there should be a better FL selection method for you guys with the WATE. I'm not even going to get into the open/closed coding selection method but I can understand the desire and need for manual input if required.

 

Things like wake up time are easily solved with a little user preperation before going into a shooting situation, switch on, disable auto power off and carry a spare battery. Exiting out of a time delay is just a matter of switching the selector from timer to single or cont during the countdown.

 

At the moment the M8 is the machine part of my photography, the machine has become slightly complicated because of the medium of digital but in essence it only does what all M's have done in the past, record to the best of the ability of the person behind the viewfinder.

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Guy, your list adresses pretty much everything. I have a few small additions.

 

1. ability to personalize the camera so the photographer's name appears in the EXIF.

2. smaller travel charger that does not require changing prongs. this can be a nightmare. i travel between USA and Europe all the time, and just a thought of losing or misplacing the prongs that are not on the charger gives me creeps.

3. home charger capable of simultaneously charging two batteries.

4. ability to use a rotating ring as an exposure compensation dial. i cannot believe that they did not think of it themselves.

5. ISO800. it appears to be a world of difference between ISO640 and ISO1250 in terms of blue chanel blotching. This is fine for B&W, but in color work I would prefer less of of it. In general, it would be nice to have half-stop increments in ISO table, but 800 seems to be the critical one.

 

I do not know if this is a hardware limitation, but if M8's inability to recognize new high-speed SD cards looks like a spit in a face. If it can be addressed on the software level, I would add this to the list.

 

As for higher bit rate, I am totally up for that. If you compare how Photoshop ACR and Lightroom "recovery" feature works with 12-bit and 16-bit files to what it does to M8 photos, the need can be seen right there.

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Re: "exposure saved when the meter shuts off should be last shot, not last seen, since last seen is usually the floor or the lens cap."

 

I think it'd be better to just not cache a value at all. I can't reproduce the problem on my M7, so I suspect that there is no actual reason why the last meter reading is hanging around - it may just be a bug.

 

 

Re: "Light shutter press cancel long exposure (e.g. when picture taken with lens cap on)" - when that happens to me (usually because of the meter caching the inside of my jacket), I just spin the shutter one step to the right... 1/8000 kicks in and no more long exposure. It's much faster than powering off the camera.

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Guest guy_mancuso

1. ability to personalize the camera so the photographer's name appears in the EXIF.

2. smaller travel charger that does not require changing prongs. this can be a nightmare.

 

These are on the option list or more features list i handed in about a month ago

 

 

 

3. home charger capable of simultaneously charging two batteries.

 

This would be nice , no doubt

 

 

4. ability to use a rotating ring as an exposure compensation dial. i cannot believe that they did not think of it themselves.

 

 

This has been asked for in the sense of ISO / EV control at the arrows and the wheel , so yes sort of the same thing your speaking of here

 

5. ISO800. it appears to be a world of difference between ISO640 and ISO1250 in terms of blue chanel blotching. This is fine for B&W, but in color work I would prefer less of of it. In general, it would be nice to have half-stop increments in ISO table, but 800 seems to be the critical one.

 

 

I have to agree 1250 for me is a no way thank you sir. I would love a great 800 or at least a half stop better 640 , the numbers vary here according to Seans testing i believe ISO 640 is a true 800 and 1250 is 1600 but a middle 1000 would be awesome like your saying

 

I do not know if this is a hardware limitation, but if M8's inability to recognize new high-speed SD cards looks like a spit in a face. If it can be addressed on the software level, I would add this to the list.

 

Well this one is a weird one because the SDHC industry was changing there standard and leica was waiting for that and i am not sure were we stand on that but we have asked for this one several times.

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4. ability to use a rotating ring as an exposure compensation dial. i cannot believe that they did not think of it themselves.

 

 

hmm, if the dial ends up working on EV as it currently does on zoom (ie try to zoom in, and the response is to zoom out) then I wont be making much use of this!

 

To be fair, I use manual exposure anyway, and since compensation only affects the light measurement in manual, but has no affect on shutter speed, this is not of great interest to me. If however I could use compensation to get finer steps in exposure adjustment, then I would be interested!

Why 1/3 stop compensation should be available in auto, when you only get 1/2 stops in manual seems pretty poorly thought out to me

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1. I'm not sure what the green stripe is, but i would like to see the stripe at the top of the screen during review to be clear and the info imposed over the image so we have more of the lcd screen for the image when in review mode.

 

2. I would like have the jump during review scrolling fixed.

 

3. finer ISO steps,say 1/2 or 1/3 steps.

 

4. improved noise at higher ISO's, several early beta cameras at high iso's seemed much quieter than the producton units have been.

 

5. exposure meter fixed - very susceptible to under exposure with back lit scenes, more so than any other center weighted meters I have used. note: I have had more metering problems with the m8 than any other Leica i own, M or R.

 

6. This is an old one, but the lens selection feature in the menu is a must, there are far too many Leica lenses not on the coding list for this to be not offered. of all my Leica lenses, only one can be coded, come on Leica, make this happen.

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My WATE arrived 2 days ago. It is really great- especially due to John's adapter which I have installed. We are very lucky to have John (and Mark and Guy) come up with the adapter. The 67 mm filter adapter would be very unweildy. The FF is also great but with the LCD screen to guide me I find that not using any finder also works unless I am doing architectural shooting.

 

I also have noticed this 18mm default problem on the Exif info. Can someone clarify for me how to avoid it ? It seems like if I set the lens detection to ON + UV/IR and select 16 or 21 every time I turn the camera on I can get correct Exif info. Howver is there any other way to make sure the Exif info is correct?

 

Also, I don't care so much about the Exif info but I do care whether the in camera correction for 16 or 21 is set correctly. Is the erroneous 18 just in the Exif info or does the camera think I'm shooting the WATE at 18? In other words, is my image quality or just the Exif info affected by the problem?

 

Thanks,

 

Doug

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Guest guy_mancuso

Doug great question , what we asked for in future firmware was to eliminate the default to 18mm and keep it as the same setting the last time you left it, so say your shooting at 21mm and you turned the camera off. Well just like a ISO that remains the way you left it so should the WATE setting. So now if you decide to move to 16mm than also go in the menu and change that

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Guy,

 

Do you know if image quality as well as the Exif info is affected by the "18" error ?

And am I correct that the only way to currently avoid the problem is to go to Lens detection On+ UV/IR and set to 16 or 21 every time the camera is turned on?

 

Thanks,

 

Doug

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Hi Guy,

Thank you (and Scott) for doing such great work for the benefit of all of us.

I notice that there's quite a gap in this thread. Did you submit a new list? Has it moved to another thread?

As a recent holder of an M8 I endorse each of your suggestions.

Regards

David

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Guest guy_mancuso
Guy,

 

Do you know if image quality as well as the Exif info is affected by the "18" error ?

And am I correct that the only way to currently avoid the problem is to go to Lens detection On+ UV/IR and set to 16 or 21 every time the camera is turned on?

 

Thanks,

 

Doug

 

 

That is correct Doug the firmware is set to make you make the change every time it detects it on startup to either 16 or 21. It comes up automatically but the ON/IR stays on all the time if you set it , just the lens focal length is something you need to do every time . Its not bad but i think we are better off remembering our last setting as we asked for. That way if your shooting at 21mm all day and you turn the camera off and on a lot you don't have to play around just turn on and shoot. i think it would be better that way

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Guest guy_mancuso
Hi Guy,

Thank you (and Scott) for doing such great work for the benefit of all of us.

I notice that there's quite a gap in this thread. Did you submit a new list? Has it moved to another thread?

As a recent holder of an M8 I endorse each of your suggestions.

Regards

David

 

David there is a gap in this thread that is correct. The latest list was maybe three weeks ago that Scott wrote up that was submitted.

 

BTW thanks for endorsing the suggestions, it is really based on all the members here and not mine because we all work differnt. So the thrust is what is good for the end user as a whole. there are some suggestion that personnally i do not need or care about but it is for everyones benefit. We also have to be carefull on what we ask for too, we certainly don't want a menu riddled mess on our hands either, I think most of us agree the simplicity is what we like

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...

 

I also have noticed this 18mm default problem on the Exif info. Can someone clarify for me how to avoid it ? It seems like if I set the lens detection to ON + UV/IR and select 16 or 21 every time I turn the camera on I can get correct Exif info. Howver is there any other way to make sure the Exif info is correct?

 

Also, I don't care so much about the Exif info but I do care whether the in camera correction for 16 or 21 is set correctly. Is the erroneous 18 just in the Exif info or does the camera think I'm shooting the WATE at 18? In other words, is my image quality or just the Exif info affected by the problem?

 

The laundry list from a few weeks back went in to Leica, followed by a few questions from them and some clarifications from Guy and me. It covered the confusing behavior of the focal length dialog for the WATE in detail. Poking into the EXIF and looking at the memory of the dialog box, I conclude that there is information in multiple places in the firmware about the WATE's current setting, and they can be inconsistent. The corrections in the "ON" state (intended for no filter) do not seem to depend on focal length, and as originally implemented in 1.09 or 1.06, there was no way that they could have. The corrections in the "ON+UV/IR" state do depend on focal length, as they must since the angle of view which determines the red vignetting changes dramatically. Anyway, Leica says they are working on these questions, so I'll wait to see the next firmware release.

 

scott

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Guy and Scott,

Thank you both for the update and the time and effort you devote to this. I feel guilty at times as to how much I freeload off your work but I do appreciate it.

As a consequence of much of what I'm learning from the generous way you share your experience and knowledge I'm enjoying the exploration of my new M8 in a way that I haven't experienced for some time.

Regards

David

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Guest guy_mancuso

Well freeloading is good and looks like you will hopefully get more of it. i got a call today that someone that was planning the Leica Academy trip to Germany had to pull out and a space was available and i said right from the word of this adventure i wanted to go and looks like i am going i spent 6 hours today getting everything arranged. So i leave tonight for NY to shoot for 4 days than friday evening i leave for Germany for 10 days on this tour which includes a trip to Solms and tour. It killed my bank account now i am scrambling for lose change so i can at least buy a beer. LOL. My belated 50th birthday to myself I guess , well my wife did not buy that arguement either , bless the dear women. So hopefully i will come home with great images and great stories to share. Now i need to win the Lotto,scary

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Guy,

 

You are making the rest of us jealous. If I was your wife I wouldn't buy that story either.

Have a great trip!

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Guest guy_mancuso

Thanks John hopefully I can update some of the firmware idea's and such. also hope that I can get on line at night to post some images. The beer better be cold, hate warm beer

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Guy-

 

Maybe it's faster to buy a camera that works rather than get this one improved.

A Mamiya MF system is now $10K, and it seems the 400 ISO actually works on the new ZD back.

The Leica's best feature is its resale value.

I paid for half my first Hassy with the money I got from selling my M system.

Maybe it's time to do it again.

 

Edmund

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Guy,

Have a great trip. You've earned it.

I'm jealous though I'm planning to give myself my first long holiday in 30 years in October after I finish a long trial and with any luck will get to both Portugal and Solms.

I look forward to hearing and seeing the fruits of your trip.

Best wishes

David

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