M240 color profiles and thoughts

[rirakuma]

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Its been over a year since the M was released and I've had lots of fun and struggles through my journey with the M240. I am still relatively new to Leica but one of the reasons why I switched from a Nikon is because I really enjoyed the colors from Leica, specifically the M9 as it was the only samples I could view before the M release. I decided to grab the M instead as I thought it would be a more suitable choice for my style of shooting. I have no regrets in the switch but I wanted to share with you some of the struggles I've had with the M240 specifically on colors.

 

I've had problems with the hot reds from the default (lightroom) M240 profiles. The M from my experience has great potential on producing incredible colors however there are certain situations where its hard to adjust color balance because the whites tend to bleed some red/yellow (from my experience) at the correct WB. No matter what I do it was just there, more specifically in the highlights. There are complicated ways to deal with this but I wanted to have a more mainstream workflow so I worked on a preset that can produce cooler, yet natural colors on the M.

 

I have attached my presets and also a few samples of a before and after pictures off the effects. The preset contains 3 adjustments: color curves, color calibration and split toning (optional, only use if the highlights need further cooling). All 3 adjustments are made purely for color correction however there are tonal side effects. The preset is best used for skin tones in natural light and its NOT always going to improve colors but I believe it works quite often. Note the samples have exactly the same white balance, exposure etc. There are no local adjustments the only differences are listed above in the preset effects.

 

Here are the links for the presets + some before and after comparisons. Simply download them and import it into your lightroom presets

 

1. main preset (color calibration and color curves)

http://db.orangedox.com/T91RQSWR9OfZeoAbtr/M240%20preset%20main.lrtemplate

2. split tone preset (to further cool highlights)

http://db.orangedox.com/hHefBnswo4BCEAAedw/M240%20preset%20split.lrtemplate

 

There are some caveats to the presets, one is the tonal change and the second is your BW conversion will be cooler (this is fixed by resetting the color curves and not applying split toning). This should only be used as a guide as I feel there is plenty of room for improvements. I believe the M has much more potential than what the current profiles provide. I also believe that an experienced engineer/specialist can further improve color and tonal drawbacks of the current profiles and I hope it will happen in the future.

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Edited October 13, 2014 by rirakuma

[rirakuma]

Some more before and after samples with still life

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[chris_tribble]

Thanks for sharing - and for an interesting non-bag related post

If I have a chance to play with these, I'll report back.

Best

[mirekti]

Thanks for these, I will surely try them out. I've been struggling with the M colors since I received the camera.

There's nothing wrong with the M, but the provided profiles, and even custom ones with the ColorChecker never hit my boat. Today I ordered a QP Card 203, and will see whether it will bring some light to the game.

[indergaard]

The colors are great.

The weak IR filter and IR contamination not.

In my experience the IR contamination is what causes most of the frustrations with color, and the feeling of just never ever getting it 100% right, even with calibrated profiles (colorchecker, spydercheckr, calibrated displays, etc, etc).

 

I've just come to accept it for what it is. Whenever I use the M240 I think of shooting with slide film and all the pro's and cons that came with saturated slide film... And suddenly that just makes it OK. I've had enough with trying to fix it.

[AlanJW]

Thanks for doing this. I'm not a LR user, preferring Bridge and PS, so it is hard for me to tell exactly what adjustments were made. I did open one of my files in LR5 and apply the preset but all the values seemed to be the default values. Maybe it is that I am unfamiliar with LR. If you could possibly describe what adjustments you made to build the present, that would allow seeing them in Photoshop/Camera Raw. If this is not possible of course I would understand because this was a lot of work to start with.

[rirakuma]

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Thanks for doing this. I'm not a LR user, preferring Bridge and PS, so it is hard for me to tell exactly what adjustments were made. I did open one of my files in LR5 and apply the preset but all the values seemed to be the default values. Maybe it is that I am unfamiliar with LR. If you could possibly describe what adjustments you made to build the present, that would allow seeing them in Photoshop/Camera Raw. If this is not possible of course I would understand because this was a lot of work to start with.

 

I'm sure its possible to implement this into your workflow because lightroom is basically the same as a combination of camera raw and photoshop. Use the settings in color calibration and copy it into camera raw. After that view the individual color curves channel and replicate it in photoshop. Note the values have to be identical because its extremely sensitive to change, the smallest pinch can give you very different result. I can give you the values but it would be a lot easier to view it in lightroom, all the adjustments in the preset are viewable.

[rirakuma]

The colors are great.

The weak IR filter and IR contamination not.

In my experience the IR contamination is what causes most of the frustrations with color, and the feeling of just never ever getting it 100% right, even with calibrated profiles (colorchecker, spydercheckr, calibrated displays, etc, etc).

 

I've just come to accept it for what it is. Whenever I use the M240 I think of shooting with slide film and all the pro's and cons that came with saturated slide film... And suddenly that just makes it OK. I've had enough with trying to fix it.

 

I thought about this as well but even after using UV/IR filters I was still getting bleeds in the highlights and its not the magenta type that I'd normally see from IR contamination. I read somewhere that even the M9 can show IR contamination but that doesn't stop it from producing nice colors. The files from the M seems to have more "digital punch" than what I see on the M9 but I've seen some commercial work done with it and although its different to the M9 look it can also superior (imo) in certain situations. The problem was professional retouchers have much more knowledge than the average shooter and they know how to obtain the right colors from the M so for us normal users it can be somewhat of a mission to color correct each picture.

[mirekti]

At first I didn't like what I saw, but wow, once I reduced the saturation tp -15 and based on a dozen of images I applied it to, this is really, really good!!!

 

Few questions. Which LR version do you use, it seems not all parameters from the file are visible inside of the LR?

For example, in the tonal curve I see it is as a custom one, but don't see any changes directly in Lightroom.

Here are parameters I cannot find in the LR, but are applied to the profile:

 

ParametricDarks = 0,

ParametricHighlightSplit = 75,

ParametricHighlights = 0,

ParametricLights = 0,

ParametricMidtoneSplit = 50,

ParametricShadowSplit = 25,

ParametricShadows = 0,

 

I might cancel the QP Card order. ;-)

 

How did you come up with these changes, they seem to be rather radical compared to the default values?

 

Those two are the difference between default profile you provided, and the one with saturation of -15. Photo was taken from the 50mm APO thread, and cropped.

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[bocaburger]

I'm really an outlier among M users to be sure. I am shooting jpegs almost exclusively. Color memory is short, everyone's color perception is a little different, some people who see my shots online have calibrated monitors and others don't, and the lighting where I hang my prints is not the same at different times of day. As long as the colors aren't way off as they were with M8 and M9 jpegs, I'm ok with it. Rather spend my time out shooting, concentrating on content and composition, than spend it in front of a computer.

[AlanJW]

I'm sure its possible to implement this into your workflow because lightroom is basically the same as a combination of camera raw and photoshop. Use the settings in color calibration and copy it into camera raw. After that view the individual color curves channel and replicate it in photoshop. Note the values have to be identical because its extremely sensitive to change, the smallest pinch can give you very different result. I can give you the values but it would be a lot easier to view it in lightroom, all the adjustments in the preset are viewable.

 

 

Okay. Thanks I will give it a try.

[rirakuma]

Glad its working out for you . I got the idea from watching a particular episode in adventure time (believe it or not). As for getting the values its just trial and error hence why I think there's plenty of room for improvements.

 

At first I didn't like what I saw, but wow, once I reduced the saturation tp -15 and based on a dozen of images I applied it to, this is really, really good!!!

 

Few questions. Which LR version do you use, it seems not all parameters from the file are visible inside of the LR?

For example, in the tonal curve I see it is as a custom one, but don't see any changes directly in Lightroom.

Here are parameters I cannot find in the LR, but are applied to the profile:

 

ParametricDarks = 0,

ParametricHighlightSplit = 75,

ParametricHighlights = 0,

ParametricLights = 0,

ParametricMidtoneSplit = 50,

ParametricShadowSplit = 25,

ParametricShadows = 0,

 

I might cancel the QP Card order. ;-)

 

How did you come up with these changes, they seem to be rather radical compared to the default values?

 

Those two are the difference between default profile you provided, and the one with saturation of -15. Photo was taken from the 50mm APO thread, and cropped.

[rirakuma]

Sorry I didn't read your post properly. I use LR 5.2, you should be able to see the adjustment values if you collapse the tabs. As for the split toning (after "Hue Saturation Luminance" tab and before "detail" tab) preset it should only be used if you're still getting obvious bleed in highlights. I don't use it very often but its there for the odd files.

[pieterpronk]

I will try your presets since I have never been quite satisfied with the way LR deals with M240 files. (I find Capture One to be a better match.)

 

Thanks

[snooper]

I'm sorry to ask... Which firmware version are you using?

[rirakuma]

I'm sorry to ask... Which firmware version are you using?

 

The first two were taken with the previous firmware. The second set are taken with the latest. Both in daylight setting from what I can remember.

[Rob Roskopp]

I've tried different approaches in Lightroom, but now I'm working with a quite simple preset:

In Camera Calibration (Process 2012 - Adobe Standard) I adjust the Red Primary: Hue + 8 (away from Magenta towards Orange), Saturation -8.

 

For most (especially indoor) shots, I may as well reduce the Wight Balance temperature (from Automatic setting) by about 200K.

Then colorwise I'm ok for most of the shots, only a few require some more adjustments, but these strongly depend on the situation (mostly either you have to add blue, or remove blue) and can't be automated.

[indergaard]

I use color profiles for my lenses, generated with a SpyderCheckr Pro, in Lightroom.

The SpyderCheckr generates 3 different profiles for each lens: Colorimetric (correct reproduction of the color), Portrait (very nice for portraits, less saturation) and Saturation (Color correct images with a pleasing amount of saturation).

 

In addition to that, I usually set White-Balance manually, and usually reduce the White-Balance temp by 200-300 in LR compared to the default since I sometimes find the M240's files to be a little on the warm side, even with the latest firmware.

 

The results are very pleasing.

 

If I am making portraits of people with a reddish skintone, I usually use a local adjustment brush with about -10 to -26 tint (which should push the red/magenta more towards orange) and -5 saturation which makes the skintones look pleasing.

 

All in all, very satisfied. Although for some troublesome images I also can end up using Capture One Pro 8 for the raw conversion. C1Pro lacks lens corrections for Leica lenses though (except the Summicron 50mm), and the cataloging sucks, and the CA/Purple fringing tool isn't as good as LR's, so I can't use it as my primary converter, even though I really like the results I'm getting from it.

[rirakuma]

I use color profiles for my lenses, generated with a SpyderCheckr Pro, in Lightroom.

The SpyderCheckr generates 3 different profiles for each lens: Colorimetric (correct reproduction of the color), Portrait (very nice for portraits, less saturation) and Saturation (Color correct images with a pleasing amount of saturation).

 

In addition to that, I usually set White-Balance manually, and usually reduce the White-Balance temp by 200-300 in LR compared to the default since I sometimes find the M240's files to be a little on the warm side, even with the latest firmware.

 

The results are very pleasing.

 

If I am making portraits of people with a reddish skintone, I usually use a local adjustment brush with about -10 to -26 tint (which should push the red/magenta more towards orange) and -5 saturation which makes the skintones look pleasing.

 

All in all, very satisfied. Although for some troublesome images I also can end up using Capture One Pro 8 for the raw conversion. C1Pro lacks lens corrections for Leica lenses though (except the Summicron 50mm), and the cataloging sucks, and the CA/Purple fringing tool isn't as good as LR's, so I can't use it as my primary converter, even though I really like the results I'm getting from it.

 

I use a similar workflow to yours but I don't use C1. Do you have problems with warm highlights after white balance correction? I don't know if its only me but I tend to see some yellows in the highlights and if I further adjust the WB the scene will be left cold.

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Hallo,

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[Rick]

Use the search function and discover a lot of profiles and discussion, including a couple of mine posted a year ago.