Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Paul20

M240 with Tilt Shift Lens for Commercial Use

Recommended Posts

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hello all,

 

I'm new to this forum but not to Leica.

 

I've used a few digital M's over the last few years including the M8, M9 and recently an MM. I enjoy the system hugely and have used it for mainly street and travel photography. I use a 28mm summicron, and 50mm lux.

 

Occasionally I do architectural photography for which I get paid. In the past I have used a combination of nikon and canon dslrs usually with 17/24mm tilt shift lenses or Zeiss primes with a nikon 800 or 5D. In the past I haven't really done enough commercial work to justify buying into a full system. Sometimes I buy lenses as I need them and sometimes I hire. When I am not doing paid work I always prefer to use a Leica. I have used an M9 in the past for architectural work but its not ideal.

 

Recently I have been offered a large architectural job to photograph a number of completed projects for an architect. I need to choose a system for the job and wondered whether a M10 with a canon adaptor would be a good choice. The live view would be a big help and i think the DR is good enough. I've been thinking of replacing the MM with an M240 anyway but I am a little nervous of using it commercially for this type of work. I don't really want to buy into a dslr system again unless I have to but they do have their uses. If I need to then I would get a Nikon 810 although the nikon tilt shift are not that good in my opinion.

 

Any advice on the use of tilt shifts with the M240 for commercial work would be appreciated and please be frank about any shortfalls with the combination. Many thanks in advance.

 

Paul

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I shoot most of my real estate and architecture on the type 240with an EVF. When I need T/S I can borrow the 17 and 24 Canons from aa friend and use them with a metabones adaptor. Most of the time a WATE does the job using a geared head and the level displays in the type 240.

 

Mostly I light with Elinchrom Quadras. DR is good on the M. Not as good as the Sony A7, which I also own. The Sony also has the incredibly useful flippy screen on the back. I prefer the Leica because it plays nicer with my wide Leica lenses.

 

In 35mm, with Canon TS lenses the Sony A7 (not R) is probably the best overall system for architecture. If you have M lenses the M240 is a viable alternative.

 

Gordon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I shoot most of my real estate and architecture on the type 240with an EVF. When I need T/S I can borrow the 17 and 24 Canons from aa friend and use them with a metabones adaptor. Most of the time a WATE does the job using a geared head and the level displays in the type 240.

 

Gordon, does the metabones adapter allow you to control the electronic iris in the canon lens when it is mounted to the Leica M? Or do you always shoot them wide open?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why is Tilt Shift lenses still required when Lightroom 5 has the feature to perform perspective correction over the images?

 

I can use my 21mm Summilux and still achieve the same effect as a tilt/shift lens.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is not the same, to use shift or software afterward. With the software correction either a part of the picture is lost or there interpolation of picture information is necessary - resolution is lost and in some cases artefacts will come up- i.e. if there are steps in the picture. Moreover tilt is not possible with software and no combination of tilt and shift at the same time. The effects of the software correction are the more stronger the stronger the wide angle lens and the stronger the necessity of shift correction is and the more fine details are in the image. But in many cases the software correction is good enough.

 

Sometimes (seldom) I use a TS-E 17 mm on the M 240 - but with this lens I prefer my Canon 5 D III. If I do so, I use a Fotodiox adapter which I have for other purposes - mainly for adapting my MP-E 65 Canon lens (which is a special strong macro lens without autofocus) together with my M 240. In both cases the aperture is set before with the Canon and will remain as long as I put it back on this camera. This procedure works fine - but a Canon camera is needed for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The M works fine with any t/s lens that has manual control of aperture and an appropriate adapter.

 

Live-view and focus peaking enable you to do most things .... although off-centre focussing is obviously not possible as in some DSLR's (you can do it on the T though). I've found metering accurate despite what some other threads have said and anyway you can bracket if it is an issue.

 

I have some cheap Russian t/s lenses (which are fine at smaller apertures) and have also tried a variety of Canon/Nikons when doing a few photography courses as the tutor is an architectural photographer and is mad keen on them.

 

Personally I tend to use my Voigt 12/5.6 and correct in LR ...... plenty of room to crop and the final images look ok to me .... but there again they are not for commercial use so i'm not printing big .....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I have been using my Canon 5d MkIII with the 17mm T/S for a lot of my architectural work. I never thought to use it on my M240. Where can I find an adapter that allows me to control the aperture? The adapter I have forces me to shoot wide open, which isn't real useful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have been using my Canon 5d MkIII with the 17mm T/S for a lot of my architectural work. I never thought to use it on my M240. Where can I find an adapter that allows me to control the aperture? The adapter I have forces me to shoot wide open, which isn't real useful.

 

There isn't ...... but if set on the Canon it will keep the previous aperture setting when used on another camera ..... which is the only fudge ..... which is a bit self-defeating as you need a canon body handy unless you decide to do everything at f8 all day .... and why most with the M either use Nikons, other makes, or older versions of lenses that still allow manual setting.

 

There are several threads about all this if you hunt for them. I have dabbled but am no expert in all this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Why is Tilt Shift lenses still required when Lightroom 5 has the feature to perform perspective correction over the images?

 

I can use my 21mm Summilux and still achieve the same effect as a tilt/shift lens.

 

Not even close to being the same.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Recently I have been offered a large architectural job to photograph a number of completed projects for an architect. I need to choose a system for the job and wondered whether a M10 with a canon adaptor would be a good choice. The live view would be a big help and i think the DR is good enough. I've been thinking of replacing the MM with an M240 anyway but I am a little nervous of using it commercially for this type of work.

 

The M240 will do a job but IMO it is not ideal for the job.

My advice: keep the MM, don't buy the M240. Buy or hire a D810 or 5D. Hire the lenses you will need - no point owning them unless you will need them frequently.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tilt&Shift on a M240 works as long it is a complete manual lens.

 

A workaround to set an aperture first on a canon body and then use the lens on the Leica makes no sense at all in my opinion.

 

I have good experience with a Schneider-Kreuznach on the Leica M and the new 28mm Scheider should be available soon.

 

Short Video of the Schneider in combination with the M240.

Explaining a Tilt & Shift lens - Kohl Photography - YouTube

 

Jochen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The M240 will do a job but IMO it is not ideal for the job.

My advice: keep the MM, don't buy the M240. Buy or hire a D810 or 5D. Hire the lenses you will need - no point owning them unless you will need them frequently.

 

 

Thankyou for your response. Please can you expand on the shortcomings of the m240 with t/s. I should say that I always use manual lenses.

 

Paul

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...shortcomings of the m240 with t/s. l

Using Tilt and controlling the sharpness is easier when you are able to work with a magnifier during Liveview, but with the M240 you can't move it, it stays always in the middle. But focus peaking is a workaround for most of time in this case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gordon, does the metabones adapter allow you to control the electronic iris in the canon lens when it is mounted to the Leica M? Or do you always shoot them wide open?

 

Sorry. Got a few facts mixed up. I have a Novoflex adaptor for my M (not Metabones). The one with the aperture blades in it. I use the Metabones adaptor on the Sony which has the electronics. The Canon lenses do not stop down electronically on the M but the Novoflex adaptor allows DOF control. I don't often use the T/S as I usually us the WATE and a geared head.

 

Apologies for the misinformation in my first post.

 

Gordon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Paul,

 

I am a full time professional architecture photographer. I love my M240's which I use for travel and street photography, but for architecture, only a tilt shift will do, as it seems you know. Skip the M for this work. Make your life easier and pick up one of the A7 cameras. I currently have an A7S and A7R for this type of work and use Canon TSE lenses on them via metabones adapter to electronically control the aperture.

 

Functionality with this setup and adapter is fantastic. Make sure you get the Mk IV version of the adapter to minimize reflections on shifted images. You can also use this adapter or the previous ones with flocking material affixed to the innards to cut down the chance of internal reflections on shifted images.

 

Besides the adapter compatibility, the Sony has some other advantages. There are times I want to look into the viewfinder, however, when running lighting, the Leica will have your transmitter in the hot shoe. The Sony also has a great phone/tablet application to view and control the camera remotely. I use this often for a form of light painting that I do with some architecture projects. This lets me wander off as I need to and maintain full control of the camera while being able to see each shot on my tablet to make sure I lit what I needed to properly. Mind you this application is not as good or as feature rich as the Camranger for Canon and Nikon, but it easily gets the job done.

 

Depending on how serious the architecture aspect of the job is, skip the 17mm TSE. It is a great lens, and I have one, but it sits in the bag and makes an appearance once or twice a year. 24mm TSE L2 is the go to lens. Great focal length. Does not make things look unnecessarily cavernous. Best of all, NO FREAKING DISTORTION!!! That lens is freakish, and there is nothing better for architecture, hands down, and I have tried them all. As far as shooting on a standard wide angle and correcting in software... NOT A CHANCE! Also, be open to stitching to get the composition you want. That opens up a lot of doors, and it is fun too.

 

Personally, I don't care for the Sony cameras the way I do with my Leicas. There is no real love affair. They are simply tools, but MIGHT FINE TOOLS for this work. The DR is a dream to work with. The tilt screen can be useful. The fact that you can control aperture with the Metabones adapter... And much more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had the old FD Canon TS 35mm in use for many years on my F-1. Unfortunately I sold the lens some years ago. Had anybody experiance with this lens on the M240 ? Due to the mecanical aperture you have not the problems like the new Canon lenses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TThorne,

 

I think we have corresponded on DPR in the past. Thank you for your reply its really helpful. I would have never considered the Sony A7. But I see others have recommended it too. I assume this is because of the DR and not the ergonomics of the camera? I have never been at all interested in Sony cameras but I will look at the A7. Perhaps a DSLR is the way to go, I hadn't appreciated that the M240 only zooms into the centre in Live View. I have used the Nikon 800 in the past which I like a lot for the DR and it does 'get things done' but the screen is poor when zoomed in and the t/s lenses are poor. The 24mm Nikon t/s has loads of distortion. I have read good things about the Canon 24mm t/s L2 however.

 

I totally agree about the 24mm FL. I have used a lot of wide lenses for mainly external architectural use but the 24mm is definitely the most useful. And yes it has to be a tilt and shift. I normally use a 18mm Zeiss when inside but that is not often.

 

Thanks again, I will look into the A7.

 

Paul

Edited by Paul20

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Granted that Leica M240 is not a good option for all Photography work.

 

But,....

 

What is the logic of an M240 w/o Leica glass???

 

If Canon or Nikon glass is good enough why bother with paying more for a Leica system?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I use my Hasselblad flex body with a 50mm Zeiss lens and a CFV 39 digital back. On a tripod. But that's work, and is for photographing projects for our website and promotional material.

Everything else I use my M system - for fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue., Read more about our Privacy Policy