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barjohn

Has Leica missed the boat with the T??

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One thing I would appreciate from Leica, if they would give us some kind of timetable for the lenses to be introduced, like Fuji does for example.

It would certainly help with my strategy in buying additional (M-) lenses.

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One thing I would appreciate from Leica, if they would give us some kind of timetable for the lenses to be introduced, like Fuji does for example.

Yes indeed, and we had asked Stefan Daniel about that in our interview in the latest issue of LFI. His answer was that customers would be likely to mistake a roadmap for an exact schedule (and judging from experience with Fuji’s customers I’d say that’s a reasonable assumption) and Leica would prefer to announce new lenses only when they are sure about the release date. While there is a roadmap extending a few years into the future it isn’t likely to be published.

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Leica never published a timetable the way Fuji did. It´s not a good idea to set Leica under pressure with a timetable. The T will work without that. Reduction on the essential. Body, lens, photo ... surprise – a new lens.

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It's not likely that a forum discussion will pressure Leica. It would be bad business practice if they would change there chosen strategy so soon, because of it. At least I don't expect it.

 

On the other hand, the system T is developed for a (wider) range of lenses, to give the user more choice and diversity in the way they can use the camera, not "better" but different photo's.

 

But only 1 prime available for an unspecified time, will mean that I will have to look elsewhere in the (Leica M-) range in the foreseeable future. Means possibly still business for Leica, but it would be nice to use the capabilities of quality prime T-lenses (AF for example). I am willing to invest in this and buy in time according to the availability of T-lenses.

 

I'm well aware that it will take Leica some considerable time to fill a range.

No pressure there from me, I am a patient man and always in for surprises!!

Edited by AndrewAM

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I went to buy the T and walked out with the M instead. For me it's just not 'special' enough to justify itself as an unjustifiable extravagance.

Edited by Jennifer

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Leica is just part of a shrinking market all the major R&D in photography is over at the smarphone section of the world. Leica will be fine as it is well equipted to survive in a niche market.

Few people print large images thsese days, even fewer view photos on a large calibrated screen......phones and tablets rule the roost so high res stuff is not needed. Nikon and Canon are the ones that need to look at where they are heading.

Sure there will be a pro market and that will be expensive and out of the reach of most, leica will be there is some others

 

".......

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I'm just grateful that I haven't invested deeper in the T than I already have - just a black body, the M lens adapter and the EVF.

 

I'm about finished with it too. Even before you get to image quality, even before you discuss how accurate the autofocus is (and I am using manual focus and finding it difficult, especially with a wide angle lens), the camera has to work as an image capturing device.

 

It fails dismally. It is much too slow.

 

The time it takes to switch on the EVF when you raise it to your eye is a disgrace. How can Leica, how can the sycophantic beta testers have EVER thought this would be acceptable? This is not a camera for capturing the moment, that moment has long gone before you even see it. It reminds me of the Digilux 2 which is more than 10 years old.

 

Time and again, Leica choose not to use processing parts which are up to the job; it may be cost, it may be eeking out an acceptable battery life because, other things being equal, power consumption tracks clock speed. So far as we know, the M Typ 240 soldiers on with the Maestro chip set which first saw the light of day in, IIRC correctly, 2008 and is therefore even older; a replacement (rather than a papering over the cracks with a larger buffer) cannot come a moment too soon.

 

I've probably taken 100,000 shots this summer. Air shows, car racing, landscape, street, macro and the camera which has shone above all the others for me is the Nikon D4S. Instantly ready for anything, more than enough resolution. Yes it's a heavy and rather noisy beast but by goodness, it delivers across the entire spectrum of tasks I throw at it.

 

It's early days for the T. I daresay, like the Nikon 1, we will see it improve over time, but at the moment, it's a lifestyle accessory, not a serious photographic tool and therefore not for me.

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As has been expressed on various photography websites, a piece of gear is "good" only if it is good for what one wants to use it for.

 

Aside from having no option to completely turn off image review in the EVF, the T handles to my satisfaction for the type of shooting I do. The image quality is a huge plus, especially when compared to the other mirrorless bodies I've used, and especially when using R-mount lenses.

 

Of course it's good to explore perceived shortcomings in any piece of gear so that one may opt either to work around them or choose another piece of gear. But for me, a big part of the joy of shooting is learning what a piece of gear does best, and exploiting those good points.

 

Whether Leica missed the boat or not is a matter of perception. While I respect the perceptions of those who feel it has, I intend to sail on the T vessel for some time to come because I'm enjoying the voyage.

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Time and again, Leica choose not to use processing parts which are up to the job; it may be cost, it may be eeking out an acceptable battery life because, other things being equal, power consumption tracks clock speed. So far as we know, the M Typ 240 soldiers on with the Maestro chip set which first saw the light of day in, IIRC correctly, 2008 and is therefore even older; a replacement (rather than a papering over the cracks with a larger buffer) cannot come a moment too soon.

 

Not sure how Leica are ever going to steal a march on the competition when Canon/Nikon/Fuji have huge R&D resources and can cost effectively produce custom chips and have the manpower to optimise code so it runs fast and reliably........

 

You would need Leica to be like Lexus is to Toyota ...... a luxury offshoot of a much larger company where it can benefit from the much larger parent ....... to keep Leica in the game when it comes to all round performance.

 

Leica have traditionally relied on their optical and mechanical excellence to give them the edge ....... but most of the competition can now emulate and exceed this performance by devious and crafty use of software.

 

Having said that, Leica have managed to produce an excellent sensor with CMOSIS, and if the current Maestro processor lives up to the hype then the future may be rosier than I currently anticipate .......

 

Unlike you I still have a lot of time for the T ..... since the FW upgrade the EVF lag isn't a pain anymore and overall responsiveness is liveable with ...... it is still an excellent back-up for an M and I have had no problems with focussing with manual lenses ..... although my T is currently at Wetzlar because my manual lenses when set on infinity result in OOF images ...... the sensor-adapter flange distance is too great and needs adjusting ..... although it has been an uphill struggle to get them to accept this is a 'problem' ....... just because it is AF does not mean it shouldn't be adjusted to use manual lenses exactly as a normal RF M would do .....

Edited by thighslapper

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John -

 

"Available stock" is an interesting issue to bring up to support your opinion that Leica is pricing itself out of the market. However, that overlooks the huge efforts Leica has made to increase production all across their line, including the M series, which is available, but uncontestedly selling well.

Nor does it take in consideration the fact that the Leica hall was one of the best visited at Photokina. It was hard to even get close to a camera at the T counter.

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Nor does it take in consideration the fact that the Leica hall was one of the best visited at Photokina. It was hard to even get close to a camera at the T counter.

 

Couldn't agree more, it was my first ever trip to Photokina, Leica hall was revisited more than once by any people as they concentrated on photography not gadgets. The galleries were Leica giving something back to those who visited.

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5 years and the T will be discontinued though replaced with something a lot more responsive(maybe) meanwhile still and slow motion images will prance in abundace .....but the files look great................ ummn:p

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I have to admit the T is intriguing, at least to me. Very intriguing.

 

I've been shooting Ms since the early 80s; however, I've jumped firmly into the digital camp. Digital has really revitalized my photography; I'm actually considering selling off my M6 and body paraphernalia and replacing it with a T, Viso and M-T adapter. I would use it with my M lenses because a digital M body is so far out of budget it's not even funny.

 

The major appeal of the T for me is the simplicity of the UI. I'm not a fan of the typical digital user interface where the bodies are festooned with buttons and switches on almost every surface - to the point where picking one up is like grasping a porcupine. (It's too easy to inadvertently change settings on most digital bodies with a misplaced finger.)

 

The T seems to be a return to sanity - two controls for exposure (shutter speed and exposure compensation would be my configuration), a shutter release plus focus and aperture on the lens when using M lenses. All of the less used functions are on the touchscreen which I would leave off and locked.

 

My only concerns at this point are likely easily resolvable in firmware updates:

 

* The inability to leave the Viso on at all times

 

* The inability to remap the video button to something more useful (I vote for focus zoom and ISO as two of the options)

 

* The inability to completely turn off image review, at least in the Viso. If image review popped up on the back display but not the EVF, that would actually work well - but I suspect that would be impossible because both displays likely have the same feed.

 

I'd also prefer if the Viso had a positive lock into the shoe, but I can live with it as is. I'd prefer an internal EVF, but I figure there's no chance of that happening for a few years anyways.

 

The perfect is the enemy of the good, so I might just jump on a T and enjoy it now - who knows how many years of shooting I have left?

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I have sold my M9 for the T.

Sold all my M lenses.

Sold the M to T adapter.

 

Of course for those of you who say it is not a serious photographic tool, I admit I have an S2 too, and they are for different uses.

 

As usual with a Leica purchase, I did it for the lenses. they are excellent. The body is fun and easy to use. I like the interface being simple. But we all know the body will change overtime. The lenses will not, only increase in number over time

 

The body is a bargain compared to an M. I have the EVF, and I understand the complaints on responsiveness at one switches between screens, but I haven't chosen to use it much yet. That will probably change when I receive the tele zoom in a few months

 

So I am committed to the T system. But as with others here, it is not my only system.

I have tested it versus the S2 files and unless I enlarge a photo to 30"x20" I would have a hard time telling the difference on a 16x30.

 

No Leica did not miss the boat with the T. I think they will be very happy with their sales.

But the target market is not me, and it is not really aimed at most of the people who post here. They took their time deciding on a new lens mount, I think we will see some interesting lenses over time.

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