richfx Posted July 12, 2014 Share #1 Posted July 12, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Two days with my new MM, and so far I'm really impressed and excited. Though I feel that I've just begun to scratch the surface in terms of learning to use it effectively, it is so far a pretty amazing machine. I've done a lot of B+W conversions with my M9 and Silver Efex Pro the past four years, so that part of PP has been made easier than it could have been for me. I know I have much to learn with the MM, however. Here are my initial observations: Build - impeccable. I especially like the sapphire LCD screen. The camera is much more elegant without a Giottos screen protector stuck to its back, as on my M9. Sensor IQ - in a word, amazing. The absence of a Bayer filter makes a very real and noticeable difference to me. I prefer Leica's / Kodak's CCD sensors to their CMOS versions on the new M 240 (personal taste), and I have really been impressed with the detail, clarity and DR of the MM. Although DNG files come out of the MM looking very bland (I was surprised at first, even though I'd read much about this), it is easy and straightforward to bring them to life. ISO capabilities - compared to the M9, there is no comparison. I don't shoot above 800 ISO with my M9, because I feel that going higher really compromises IQ. With the MM, 5000 ISO actually looked good today. 10,000 ISO seemed too high, but I have a lot more to test with different ISOs and conditions. The nice thing about the MM and seeking to replicate the look of film is that grain / noise can be considered to be good. Clinical look - much has been written about how the MM, especially with Leica's current ASPH and FLE lenses, can take on an overly clinical look. I haven't seen it yet with the 35 and 50 Summilux FLEs, but again, it's very early in the game for me. I shot with a Zeiss 35mm Biogon f/2.8 today, and thought that the IQ and look were quite nice. I'm super excited to keep shooting and learning the MM, but so far, I couldn't be happier with my decision to get one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 12, 2014 Posted July 12, 2014 Hi richfx, Take a look here New Monochrom / Initial Thoughts. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
richfx Posted July 12, 2014 Author Share #2 Posted July 12, 2014 Forgot to mention that, like the M9, the MM deposits oil and/or dust residue on its sensor right out of the box. I shot the sky at f/16 and counted 6 or 7 spots on the image afterwards after only 80 or so actuations. I haven't visually examined the sensor yet, but will try a rocket blower before performing a wet clean of the sensor. I'm not in a huge rush to clean the sensor yet, knowing that this will continue unabated for a while during the shutter and body's break-in. My M9 calmed down after several thousand shutter actuations, and I've read that the MM acts similarly. Why Leica can't resolve or improve on this phenomena in products of this quality and price is a mystery to me (although I understand the new M 240 to be less prone to spitting internal lubricants about when new), but that's life, I guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWC Doppel Posted July 12, 2014 Share #3 Posted July 12, 2014 I'm very jealous Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 12, 2014 Share #4 Posted July 12, 2014 Forgot to mention that, like the M9, the MM deposits oil and/or dust residue on its sensor right out of the box. I shot the sky at f/16 and counted 6 or 7 spots on the image afterwards after only 80 or so actuations. I haven't visually examined the sensor yet, but will try a rocket blower before performing a wet clean of the sensor. I'm not in a huge rush to clean the sensor yet, knowing that this will continue unabated for a while during the shutter and body's break-in. My M9 calmed down after several thousand shutter actuations, and I've read that the MM acts similarly. Why Leica can't resolve or improve on this phenomena in products of this quality and price is a mystery to me (although I understand the new M 240 to be less prone to spitting internal lubricants about when new), but that's life, I guess. Don't do a wet clean as first option. Try the Eyelead wine gum first. It is the only way I get my MM spotless. A wet clean is a last resort thing on this camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted July 12, 2014 Share #5 Posted July 12, 2014 I'm very jealous So go and buy one for yourself Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richfx Posted July 12, 2014 Author Share #6 Posted July 12, 2014 Don't do a wet clean as first option. Try the Eyelead wine gum first. It is the only way I get my MM spotless. A wet clean is a last resort thing on this camera. Thanks, Jaap. I've had a DLC SensorVu wand / gum stick for awhile, which I believe is the one used by Leica in the early M9 factory video. I've used it on my M9 with good results. Is the Eyelead sensor gel stick different / better than the DLC version for the MM's sensor? Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 13, 2014 Share #7 Posted July 13, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) I had a very bad experience with the Dust-Aid one. This one is a better design. I do not know the one you mention. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjkotze Posted July 13, 2014 Share #8 Posted July 13, 2014 Don't do a wet clean as first option. Try the Eyelead wine gum first. It is the only way I get my MM spotless. A wet clean is a last resort thing on this camera. During the early life of the camera, oil causes a fair amount of spots. I assume the Eyelead do not remove oil spots. In this case I assume some wet cleaning is necessary during the early life of the camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 13, 2014 Share #9 Posted July 13, 2014 It did manage to lift "oil" from mine. I thinking only small minority of what is called oil spots is actually oil. Most of it on à new sensor, from what I have seen under the microscope are slightly greasy, thus sticky, machining particles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted July 13, 2014 Share #10 Posted July 13, 2014 Why Leica can't resolve or improve on this phenomena in products of this quality and price is a mystery to me... If they can't stop it at the source, it would seem that this could be easily addressed by adding more shutter actuations after assembly and then cleaning as needed before final distribution. And if they do this already, then do it more, and better. Not a cure, but at least steps to minimize. Hardly rocket science. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richfx Posted July 13, 2014 Author Share #11 Posted July 13, 2014 I just purchased the Eyelead SCK-1 gel stick. Not easy to find in the States; eBay to the rescue. It is apparently manufactured in China and shipped worldwide. It will be interesting to see how it compares to the DLC version I have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjkotze Posted July 14, 2014 Share #12 Posted July 14, 2014 It did manage to lift "oil" from mine. I thinking only small minority of what is called oil spots is actually oil.Most of it on à new sensor, from what I have seen under the microscope are slightly greasy, thus sticky, machining particles. Jaap, I assume something like this will require wet cleaning. My MM sensor got one streak like this right out of the box. I am not sure what it is but it looks as if somebody have tried to remove some oil with a swab. Please note that this is a 100% enlargement. The actual streak is about 4mm long. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/230402-new-monochrom-initial-thoughts/?do=findComment&comment=2630280'>More sharing options...
250swb Posted July 14, 2014 Share #13 Posted July 14, 2014 If they can't stop it at the source, it would seem that this could be easily addressed by adding more shutter actuations after assembly and then cleaning as needed before final distribution. And if they do this already, then do it more, and better. Not a cure, but at least steps to minimize. Hardly rocket science. Jeff It's hardly 'rocket science' (which isn't all that difficult considering any moron can light a fuse and disturb somebody's quiet night in) to clean the sensor as an owner, especially when set against the increased price added to the camera for Leica to do it for you with more pre-delivery testing. And it doesn't settle down for six months anyway, many exposures for some, but longer if the camera is only used for the annual holiday and family birthday's. Better would be for Leica to empower owners to do cleaning themselves instead of fanning the flames of fear that is so prevalent in Leica ownership nowadays. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted July 15, 2014 Share #14 Posted July 15, 2014 It's hardly 'rocket science' (which isn't all that difficult considering any moron can light a fuse and disturb somebody's quiet night in) to clean the sensor as an owner, especially when set against the increased price added to the camera for Leica to do it for you with more pre-delivery testing. And it doesn't settle down for six months anyway, many exposures for some, but longer if the camera is only used for the annual holiday and family birthday's. Better would be for Leica to empower owners to do cleaning themselves instead of fanning the flames of fear that is so prevalent in Leica ownership nowadays. Two issues, neither rocket science. And not mutually exclusive. Learn to clean your sensor….I've done it for years…no biggie. Leica can take some simple steps to minimize (not eliminate) initial oil/dust splatter. The rest is fanning flames. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar Posted July 15, 2014 Share #15 Posted July 15, 2014 To the OP, congratulations on the MM. It just gets better and better. I agree with most of your comments about it, especially the files looking bland initially which as you saw, are quickly fixed. Have you made prints yet? I didn't for the first few weeks but as you might expect they don't disappoint. You should read the thread I made yesterday and the experience I had with sensor cleaning. WHile I am sure it can be dangerous under certain conditions, I also think there is undue fear (of which I suffered). My first attempt a year ago, I thought I ruined the sensor when it turned out from what I learned and did today, it was exactly what should be expected and can be part of the wet clean process depending on what was on the sensor. The sticky wand did absolutely nothing to the spots on the MM or the T which on the MM I suspect oil and on the T, possibly pollen. As I just posted in that thread, The sticky wand is good or maybe great to have as part of the tool kit for light dust or final touch ups. I'm not sure I would use it first but I would at least just examine the sensor under magnification first to be certain you won't be pressing down any material that can scratch the sensor. Was really a piece of cake cleaning two very dirty sensors today, after speaking with two pros who told me what to expect and what to do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richfx Posted July 15, 2014 Author Share #16 Posted July 15, 2014 To the OP, congratulations on the MM. It just gets better and better. I agree with most of your comments about it, especially the files looking bland initially which as you saw, are quickly fixed. Have you made prints yet? I didn't for the first few weeks but as you might expect they don't disappoint. You should read the thread I made yesterday and the experience I had with sensor cleaning. WHile I am sure it can be dangerous under certain conditions, I also think there is undue fear (of which I suffered). My first attempt a year ago, I thought I ruined the sensor when it turned out from what I learned and did today, it was exactly what should be expected and can be part of the wet clean process depending on what was on the sensor. The sticky wand did absolutely nothing to the spots on the MM or the T which on the MM I suspect oil and on the T, possibly pollen. As I just posted in that thread, The sticky wand is good or maybe great to have as part of the tool kit for light dust or final touch ups. I'm not sure I would use it first but I would at least just examine the sensor under magnification first to be certain you won't be pressing down any material that can scratch the sensor. Was really a piece of cake cleaning two very dirty sensors today, after speaking with two pros who told me what to expect and what to do. Thanks. I'm not fearful of cleaning the MM's sensor. Having done wet cleans on the M9, and realizing that the glass cover on the sensor is (and must be) fairly robust, I "just did it" in the words of Nike, without consequence. It's quite straightforward, really and you don't have to be a surgeon to get it right (although I'm sure that couldn't hurt). I used the rocket blower the other day, after seeing 7 or 8 spots during the first day of shooting. Glad to say that the air alone removed all but one spot. I'll wait a while to recheck and clean if necessary. No need to get too worked up about the sensor picking up foreign objects and/or fluids during the break-in period. I think one of the most important issues is how often and under what conditions you change lenses. I shoot almost exclusively 35mm FL, so my lens is rarely changed. When I do change lenses, I always use the rocket blower with the shutter closed on the body and the lens. Seems to work well. I just made a test print from the MM on my Epson 3880. Quite good in terms of resolution and tones. B+Ws from my M9 with Silver Efex Pro 2 conversion are no slouches, however. Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted July 16, 2014 Share #17 Posted July 16, 2014 Any youtube videos out there on wet cleaning the MM sensor? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richfx Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share #18 Posted July 16, 2014 Haven't seen any. Sensor cleaning videos I've seen on youtube all relate to DSLRs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 16, 2014 Share #19 Posted July 16, 2014 What would the difference be then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richfx Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share #20 Posted July 17, 2014 There shouldn't be any other than the cropped sensors' smaller size and tighter confines inside the body with many DSLRs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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