R80 summilux vs M75summilux sharpness

[Peter E]

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If you look at the image posted by Farnz (#23) above, it really shows the strengths of the R-80 beautifully. Look at the hands (zero distortion) and the silky transitions around the face and hair... wow!

 

But the rings do not come through with biting detail. They are in focus, but not edgy. This is the look of the R-80. If you want edgy rings, the APO 90 will do the trick, but the hands and transitions in OOF will not glow.

 

Hi Peter,

 

Thanks for your reply!

I really like the look of the image posted by Farnz, it has the 3D look and a very beautiful bokeh! This is want I hoped to get from my R80 but it isn't...

For me a 90mm is to difficult to use on a rangefinder, I've tested a 90 90elmarit in the past, I loved the look but I found it too small in the finder to nail the focus.

[farnz]

This is beautiful! Thanks for sharing!

I'm happy to see that this is done with your R80 wide open.

My R80 renders not like this(on a D800 or Nex), I'll not get this crisp and sharp detail arround the fingers...

Your 80 Summilux-R is probably entering middle-age now so it's likely to have suffered many bumps, jolts, vibrations, and changes in temperature and humidity over its lifetime. I recommend considering a CLA (cleaning, lubrication, and adjustment) by Leica or a specialist Leica repairer, which might help the lens to produce the pictures you're hoping for.

 

Pete.

[Peter E]

Your 80 Summilux-R is probably entering middle-age now so it's likely to have suffered many bumps, jolts, vibrations, and changes in temperature and humidity over its lifetime. I recommend considering a CLA (cleaning, lubrication, and adjustment) by Leica or a specialist Leica repairer, which might help the lens to produce the pictures you're hoping for.

 

Pete.

 

Thanks Pete,

 

I also think a CLA is the best way to start and I hope it will be the solution for this problem even if the lens is looking new...

[gpwhite]

First image is M9, 75lux

Second image D800 with R80, both focused on the eyes.

 

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Peter, do you see how the focus planes on the two shots is different? The R-80 is focused closer than the R-75... just look at the camera strap or the lens engraving. I also detect an exposure or at least blackness/clarity level difference, favoring the 75 to my taste.

 

I think as lens comparisons go, short of the Lloyd Chambers level of precision, you are documenting that your two lenses are equivalent in capability.

[Paul J]

The 75mm Summilux is one of the sharpest lenses I have even owned in all formats. It is so sharp that it introduces new problems I have found. Namely, the greater clarity of jagged lines which start show up due to no AA filter, even at reduced magnification. In particular it tends to break up hair detail and it has been an issue on one or two occasions, more-so when you need to crop in a little.

[Peter E]

Peter, do you see how the focus planes on the two shots is different? The R-80 is focused closer than the R-75... just look at the camera strap or the lens engraving. I also detect an exposure or at least blackness/clarity level difference, favoring the 75 to my taste.

 

I think as lens comparisons go, short of the Lloyd Chambers level of precision, you are documenting that your two lenses are equivalent in capability.

 

 

Yes, I saw this too.

If you look to the images at 100%, you'll see that the eyes are in focus on both images but it looks that my R80 has front focus and the M75 back focus.

Do you think that this makes the difference?

 

The small exposure difference is possible, I used the R on the D800 and the M75 on the M9 and tried to set them the same when processing the images.

 

If you look at the 2 images from the flower, those are focussed with a EVF on my Nex at exactly the same point, but the R image is softer(maybe it't difficult to see here because of the compression)

You see this also on the test chart images.

 

I like the bokeh and look of my lens but it isn't giving the 3D look I want to get too...(Am I asking to much from my lens )

[jaapv]

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If you compare two lenses on two different sensors all bets are off. And I am not sure the NEX is the best platform for testing either, as the sensor is basically optimized for Sony's own lens designs and not for vintage rangefinder or even SLR ones. I think the best test would be to mount both lenses on the M240 and do careful focus bracketing. That way we would get comparable images.

In Puts' Compendium there is a clear statement about the differences and similarities of these lenses. IIRC his conclusion is that the R80 beats the M75 by a noselength.

I will look it up and post it this evening (if I can find time;))

[Paul J]

If you compare two lenses on two different sensors all bets are off. And I am not sure the NEX is the best platform for testing either, as the sensor is basically optimized for Sony's own lens designs and not for vintage rangefinder or even SLR ones. I think the best test would be to mount both lenses on the M240 and do careful focus bracketing. That way we would get comparable images.

In Puts' Compendium there is a clear statement about the differences and similarities of these lenses. IIRC his conclusion is that the R80 beats the M75 by a noselength.

I will look it up and post it this evening (if I can find time;))

 

Jaap, I stand corrected. I thought it was the other way around. I'm still strangely sure I read otherwise, but probably wrong I would have to check.

 

According to page 149 of Erwin Puts Compendium the R is better in the outer edges and corners. The M falling off more quickly.

[gpwhite]

Jaap, I stand corrected. I thought it was the other way around. I'm still strangely sure I read otherwise, but probably wrong I would have to check.

 

According to page 149 of Erwin Puts Compendium the R is better in the outer edges and corners. The M falling off more quickly.

 

Yes, I read all of this too and kept the Puts section to make me feel better when struck by acute 75mm f/1.4 variant GAS attack.

 

As a previous post mentions (I believe it was Jaap's point), the performance of these two lenses, on average, is such that one must consider them equivalent. When looking from piece to piece of production lenses, some 75mm will be exceptionally good, just as some 80mm will be exceptionally good.

[alan.y]

I also have both and much prefer the 80 ergonomically, despite its having 140 grams over my 75. In fact, the 80 is the only lens I have that I even enjoy fondling, as weird as it sounds. The 80 is a solid chunk, the 75 a finnicky stick, and I worry about dropping or damaging the latter much more.

 

Both copies have focus shift, and both lose a bit of light focused closely. I get better images with the 80 because it's easier and more fun to use.

 

If I were to buy the 75 again I'd buy the hoodless early version, with its even lower weight (490grams) more generously spaced and sized rings.

[Peter E]

If you compare two lenses on two different sensors all bets are off. And I am not sure the NEX is the best platform for testing either, as the sensor is basically optimized for Sony's own lens designs and not for vintage rangefinder or even SLR ones. I think the best test would be to mount both lenses on the M240 and do careful focus bracketing. That way we would get comparable images.

In Puts' Compendium there is a clear statement about the differences and similarities of these lenses. IIRC his conclusion is that the R80 beats the M75 by a noselength.

I will look it up and post it this evening (if I can find time;))

 

I would love to test this R80 on a M240 but I don't have one, first my M9 need to be retired

I've used the Nex just to compare the difference in rendering for the 2 lenses on the same sensor, but even on a D800 I see the same result.

I'm going to send the R80 to Leica for a CLA and hope this will solve the problem.

[algrove]

Why not rent an M240 for a short period of time in order to satisfy yourself?

[Peter E]

Why not rent an M240 for a short period of time in order to satisfy yourself?

 

That's a good idea, hope to find one here for rent.

All my friends here have M8, M9 or MM but nobody with M240.

[cpclee]

I used to live near Leica USA in New Jersey, and I'd just drop in to have them check a lens or piece of equipment quickly. They would not charge me for little things. If you have any doubt, the best way is to have Leica check it out. If it turns out to be nothing, all you probably will pay is just postage.

[Peter E]

Yesterday I've sent my R80 to Leica for a CLA, I'll keep you informed how it turns out.

 

Thank you all and best regards

Peter

[gpwhite]

Yesterday I've sent my R80 to Leica for a CLA, I'll keep you informed how it turns out.

 

Thank you all and best regards

Peter

 

Peter, please do. I am about to send mine off and request Wetzlar CLA. Perhaps I should wait to hear what you learn.

 

Peter

[Peter E]

Peter, please do. I am about to send mine off and request Wetzlar CLA. Perhaps I should wait to hear what you learn.

 

Peter

 

Hi Peter, I'll inform you for sure. It's sent to Wetzlar and it can take 3-4weeks when I get it back(I hope )

(My noctilux was also out for 3weeks but it took 3months...)

 

Best regards

Peter

[Jepeli]

Hai Peter, im following your thread about R80, any feedback after CLA so far ?

 

Currently im using R80 with m240 and found it was quite soft wide open (by using LV), its different from what i've experienced before with Nikon D3+R80 back in 2011, it nailed sharp pict wide open ...

 

Looking forward more on d case ...

 

Regards,

Jeff

[Peter E]

Hi all,

 

I finally got my R80 back from a CLA at Leica after 3,5 months.

I've tested the lens on a M240 and compared it to the same M75lux I've had here from a friend.

 

The difference is still there.., so I think is just the nature of this lens.

The 75 has a more 3D look than the R80 and is a bit sharper wide open.

The R80 renders beautiful too but I prefer the 75.

When the R80 was at Leica I had the oppertunity to buy this 75lux from my friend and I buyed it.

So, I'll put my R80 for sale...

 

Best regards

Peter

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[gpwhite]

Leica Wetzlar has had my R80 now for three months, even after they reported it needed only a tune up. Hmm, a tune up for US$450! Perhaps shipping is very expensive through New Jersey?

 

The cost seems quite high to me, but I am powerless. Once I get my lens back (New Jersey seemed to believe I would have it yet in November), I will post how it is doing on my M240 and what relative value I got for $450.

 

BTW, Jepeli, when you focus the R80, via either LV or EVF, I find that 10X magnification is imperative... just like focusing the Noct. The two lenses have similar DOF (the R80 actually thinner).

 

Peter