Time for Digilux 4

[Leicamateur]

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I just got myself a Digilux 3 and will get rid of my complete Pentax equipment (K10D with several lenses and stuff)... some people might think I'm crazy and to some degree that might be true...

 

... anyway, the most important for me using a camera is handling and image quality.

Image quality of Digilux 3 used with the kitlens (14-50mm F2.8-3.5) is outstanding, without a doubt. Noise is very low even at higher iso levels as I found.

I like the handling of the DL3 very much, its intuitive.

On any other SLR if you want shutter priority or aperture priority you'll set that usually on a small wheel on top of the camera. That's easy enough but when I'm using the DL3 I do same thing just with turning the aperture ring or shutter wheel, it comes more naturally to me and I can do it without leaving eyes from the viewfinder.

 

What I don't like about Digilux 3...

it's not very ergonomic... has a certain plastic feel to it.

The kitlens build quality is not what I expected... plastic housing (which is generally no problem, but the Leica lens looks and feels a little bit cheap) and especially the zoom is not very smooth. I have several Tamron, Pentax and Sigma lenses which are much cheaper compared to the kit lens but have a much better build quality and smoother zoom...

 

I am getting used to this but I do want to complain about the overall "cheap" plastic feel and not smooth zoom... at this price level we can expect higher quality.

 

Viewfinder is small and not as bright as other SLRs... sure we have no pentaprism, you can't expect to get the same here as from a Pentax K10D or Canon EOS 5D. The comparison is not realistic.

 

4/3 system is around for quite some time and many professionals are using it around the globe. Olympus did a great job here and did some pioneer work (4/3 system, live view, antidust protection)... that many of these Olympus innovations are successful is just becoming more aware as we see Canon, Pentax, Sony and others adapting these techniquies (antidust, liveview..).

 

And we definitely will have a bright 4/3 future, I'm very much looking forward to the new Olympus pro SLR. 4/3 lenses from Olympus have great image quality, I'm just about to buy a 50mm F2.0 macro lens.

 

Why wait for a Leica SLR of the likes of Olympus E410?? I doubt that Leica will make a body in this category on its own, its more likely that Leica in company with Panasonic will adapt a design from one of the new Olympus bodies... same happened for Digilux 3 / Panasonic L1... without Olympus E330 these two cameras wouldn't exist, please keep that in mind.

[krabat]

In order to come back to the initial post - yes, I also would be very happy about a re-launch of the Digilux 2 concept - easy to use, very silent, the EVF that does not bother me, excellent lens with a useful zoom range, very good jpg mode, ergonomic, beautiful design, etc.

In the meantime, electronics has developed rapidly, so all advancements achieved during the past years could be utilised, including a better electronic display, a better chip (8 MP would be enough, 10 alright ) and, of course, higher ISO speed, and additional 1/4000 s shutter, or even 1/8000. Well, and again a good zoom lens, with 2.0 at 28 mm, and probably 2.8 at 100 mm or so. Not necessarily interchangable, not necessarily equipped with IS. Most important, the same simple and straightforward handling and operation as the DL 2 has. Again a "real" RAW or DNG mode, not compressed to 8 bit.

 

By the way, I am currently looking through the photo stores for a future alternative to my DL2 (just for curiosity ), however, until now I did not find any that would fullfil all the criteria.

 

Best regards, Peter.

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[Guest stnami]

I reckon the Digilux 2 concept is gone,no revival, they all moved on, cost of the lens says so.................those that still have them enjoy.........

[jbstitt]

I love my D2!!!!! Yes, it has faults, but it fills a very significant gap in photography style.

 

GREAT ABOUT THE D2

 

 

The lens - good range, high depth of field, ultra sharp, Leica color

Silent!

EVF or the back works well for those who like view camera style shooting and composing

Reasonable weight and size for a good camera

Fantastic black and white capability

Combination of sensor and lens beats most 8 mp cameras on image quality.

Pictures have "the Leica look."

A fantastic travel camera.

Personally I have no problem with the viewfinder being an old B&W shooter and not a street shooter needing instant response. Yes, it could be better and it is technically possible now. I prefere constructing the composition, then pushing the shutter, and that works fine with the viewfinder. If i want more then I use the View Camera technique and look at the scene without the benefit of camera!! (Oh, a novel idea!!!!)

 

WHAT NEEDS IMPROVEMENT

 

Improve the EVF but keep it an EVF for the silence and simplicity

High speed noise - 400 is noisy

Manual to fully automatic mode options.

Buffer - what buffer. It needs a better one for shoot and write speed

Too much plastic - Improve the build quality of the exterior.

Lousy Macro capability. Could be cured by making an interchangable lens mount. Keep the Sumicron but make it possible to use a macro lens. Or, .....

Filter Size - Why oh why, 69 - a real odd ball size. Really limiting.

 

Maybe the D3 really rings some people's chimes, but for me it was a move in the wrong direction into a land filled with much better cameras and without a real market differentiation. I bought one, used it for two weeks, and returned it. It was not an extension/ improvement of the D2 and it certainly is not the equal of a Canon 5D which is about the same money. I love Leica ( I own 3 film cameras and a D2) and will pay for good Leica equipment but I am not so crazy as to buy an expensive camera that does not work for me just because it says Leica on the red dot.. The D3 just does not meet my needs. It sits in a no man's land. It is a clunker in the tradition of the Edsel.

 

I have said it here before, Leica should really consider a branch of the D line that follows and improves on the D2's assets. The D2 is already becomming sort of a classic because it fits a style of shooting, has some STRONG assets, and is still probably the best EVF camera available for image quality. Yes, it had problems, all addressable. Why jump ship when a winner line was in development? I will never understand. Bring out the improved D2 and I will be first in line to buy one. Improve the D3 concept and I will stick with the Canon 5D.

[Riley]

Still no small wide primes Mr Riley

 

no Imants

and sadly i dont think there will be

there is a wide zoom planned for next year, 8-16mm and a 14-35/F2

 

I thought about Pen F (the real 4/3 DNA) wides too, but the register is too short

I cant recall any other 1/2 frame wides

 

Karlitos thankyou

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[krabat]

I love my D2!!!!! Yes, it has faults, but it fills a very significant gap in photography style.

.....

Why jump ship when a winner line was in development? I will never understand. Bring out the improved D2 and I will be first in line to buy one.

 

Completely agree, John, also with the other points you wrote!

 

Best, Peter.

[asabet]

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I love my D2!!!!! Yes, it has faults, but it fills a very significant gap in photography style.

 

...

 

I have said it here before, Leica should really consider a branch of the D line that follows and improves on the D2's assets. The D2 is already becomming sort of a classic because it fits a style of shooting, has some STRONG assets, and is still probably the best EVF camera available for image quality. Yes, it had problems, all addressable. Why jump ship when a winner line was in development? I will never understand. Bring out the improved D2 and I will be first in line to buy one. Improve the D3 concept and I will stick with the Canon 5D.

 

Agree completely. I enjoy my 5D and G7, but the great majority of times I use the D2 instead. It's more fun to use than the other two, and the images are superb. Bring out an improved D2, and I will be second in line after you!

[audidudi]

Bring out an improved D2, and I will be second in line after you!

I'd buy one as well (and perhaps even two!) as I have no interest in the M8 and my LC1 has become my primary camera now that I've dedicated my L1 body for use as a digital back on my view camera. Alas, I think this has about as much chance of happening as my being elected as Pope...

[dugby]

I believe if you look closely at the Leica Camera company during the period of the Digilux's from 1999 onwards. It is clear that Leica had to find a low cost way to test the market-place.

 

Initially there was the collaboration with Fujifilm and their 2700, 4700, 4800 range (aka Leica Digilux, Digilux zoom and Digilux43) When I was in Tokyo in 1999/2000 these Leica Digilux's were in all the Yodabashi stores, and selling like Japanes hot-cakes.

 

Clearly a signal to Leica that their brand was still alive to the masses.

 

Next came the Panasonic collaboration LC5 and LC1(aka Digilux-1 and Digilux-2), attempts to test the next tier of consumer, once again signalling consumer confidence in the time-line for digital, a 'pro-sumer' segment.

 

I'm not even going to mention the low end C-Luxs

 

However in a cut-throat market, Marketing Managers know that 1-off consumer transactions are low margin and introduce a risky chance of follow-on business.

Once you've captured a consumer, you need to feed him 'add-on' products.(lenses, lenses...filters.....etc) This is clearly Leica's strategy in the pro-sumer/PRO segment (D3, M8 and R9/DMR)

 

Introducing a D4 as a re-worked D2, will only serve to canabalise Leica's entry level prosumer segment. Many here on this forum have proved that a PRO can make a living just using a D2. Leica needs us to be repeat customers, and if we want to remain part of the living Leica brand we should support this, by buying more Leica products..... hence the D3, M8, DMR ranges

 

As a existing D-Lux2, D1, D2 and D3(L1) owner I can see the pricing segmentation and image quality of this range is clearly covered by the current D-Lux3 and then D3, a D4 will slice up this segmentation to Leica's detriment, (and ultimately our own).

 

For every one M8 consumer, Leica probably needs 10 to 20 D3/L1 consumers for corporate survival. You may not see this this Forum by being over-run by D3/L1 owners, as many may not know about this forum or may not be interested in such a user-group-forum.

On my many visits to Japan there are many many Leica users out on the streets, who because of language reasons are not represented in this forum.

 

Leica recognises this by recently opening a very new and very expensive Leica store in the Tokyo Ginza. To put some perspective on this strategy..... US- Property Analysts have assessed the value of all property on the "Ginza Street" in total, to exceed the total value of all property in California. This is a serious strategic investment.

 

There are big dollars at stake, and I believe Leica's product planners have got the D2 and now D3 strategy correct.

 

All you D2 owners, holding back....... go out and have a careful look at the D3 images, they are beautiful...and a significant step forward over the D2.

(yes I still have a D2 and D3/L1....as living proof to my claim).

[asabet]

Dugby, I agree with your thoughtful post. However, Leica is clearly willing to release some "1-off consumer transactions," such as the V-LUX. I guess the market can't support smallish sensor non megazoom bridge cameras anymore.

[spylaw4]

Dugby, I tend to agree with you - from a marketing viewpoint. However, while Leica has the D-Lux3, which I understand is a very good camera, this is not the same style of camera as the D2. Personally I think there is room for an improved D2 (D2.1, D2a ?) based on the same great lens, not necessarily interchangeable; with all the improvements that we have rattled on about here continually. For someone wanting a rangefinder-type camera, but unable to afford an M8 with its attendant on-costs this would indeed be manna from heaven. Mark me down for one.

[Riley]

i think there are two things of note going on here

the beautiful but terribly flawed D2/LC-1 is very sought after as a shooting tool

the D3/L1, which ever more useful than D2/LC-1, but somehow not held in the same esteem

 

i think the fix has always been obvious, fixed lens rangefinder

very compact design, simple in construct and operation, cheap to execute

since they know how to do it, features like aperture ring and speed dial

sensor 4/3, live LCD as in D2

 

now not only Leica and Panasonic, but also Olympus would have a legitimate interest

so split design and manufacture 3 ways, they each get an additional camera for 1/3 the inputs.

R&D and design are normally required to be recovered in 1 camera

 

just 2 decisions

how is the rangefinder window implemented, i suggest a zooming optical

what is the lens speed and zoom range, i suggest 26-70/2.8

too hard ? then just a fixed focal 17mm

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[spylaw4]

If you're going for a single lens (was your 26-70 actual and not 35 equiv?) then a 35mm equiv of 26 (28 is ok) to at least 90 would be my pref. I find myself using 70-90 more than the wide angles.

Good idea otherwise!

[Enrique Santa]

Dugby:

"Introducing a D4 as a re-worked D2, will only serve to canabalise Leica's entry level prosumer segment. Many here on this forum have proved that a PRO can make a living just using a D2. Leica needs us to be repeat customers, and if we want to remain part of the living Leica brand we should support this, by buying more Leica products..... hence the D3, M8, DMR ranges".

I would like to know how many D3 leica had sold.

L1 is at this moment at 1.050 - 1.200 $, so is Panasonic who is "eating" Leica market.

Sorry Dugby I´m not agree, perhaps cheper products have less margin, but they sell better.

Any case isn´t responsability of costumers the success or not of a company. Leica needs to find it´s own IPOD in photograpic terms.

[dugby]

Hey Rob....you're starting to scare me....1st with jpeg of the Olympus Pen and now the Minolta Himatic.

 

Why....

 

Back in the late 60's, my 1st camera was the Olympus Pen-S (half frame). Next I moved

onto a Minolta HiMatic 7s (f1.9 35mm) RF.

 

Then came a .....

[dugby]

Dugby:

"Introducing a D4 as a re-worked D2, will only serve to canabalise Leica's entry level prosumer segment. Many here on this forum have proved that a PRO can make a living just using a D2. Leica needs us to be repeat customers, and if we want to remain part of the living Leica brand we should support this, by buying more Leica products..... hence the D3, M8, DMR ranges".

I would like to know how many D3 leica had sold.

L1 is at this moment at 1.050 - 1.200 $, so is Panasonic who is "eating" Leica market.

Sorry Dugby I´m not agree, perhaps cheper products have less margin, but they sell better.

Any case isn´t responsability of costumers the success or not of a company. Leica needs to find it´s own IPOD in photograpic terms.

 

Don't under-estimate the power of Badge engineering.

 

A manufacturer can make it's own product and sell it with anything from 0% to beyond 50% profit....per unit.

 

The same manufacturer can license it's "BRAND" to someone else...eg Fujifilm or Panasonic and make many thousand's percent profit on the "LOGO"

 

This second strategy is vital in today's cut-throat market......we call it "Co-opertition"

 

Every big name manufacturer does it in all product segments be it Fashion, Automobiles, electronics, Food etc.....

 

Without this synergistic approach, they would not individually be able to reach market segments beyond their usual grasp.

 

Many consumers don't like this......but it's the only way for businesses to survive.

[Riley]

If you're going for a single lens (was your 26-70 actual and not 35 equiv?) then a 35mm equiv of 26 (28 is ok) to at least 90 would be my pref. I find myself using 70-90 more than the wide angles.

Good idea otherwise!

 

yes Brian i meant 35mm EFL

trying to be mindful of costs and trying to keep the lens size down

 

actually i find this the single most difficult decision

lens FL is quite a personal choice, and we have been spoiled with zooms flexibility

personally i prefer wider not longer, but i appreciate the latter

[Enrique Santa]

Dugby, very very interesting, but still want a new D2.1. I´m not interested at all in businesses . I only need a photographic tool that adjusts to my necessities .

[Riley]

Hey Rob....you're starting to scare me....1st with jpeg of the Olympus Pen and now the Minolta Himatic.

 

Why....

 

Back in the late 60's, my 1st camera was the Olympus Pen-S (half frame). Next I moved

onto a Minolta HiMatic 7s (f1.9 35mm) RF.

 

Then came a .....

 

Then came a..... what

that will save me dreaming the next one up

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[Overgaard]

I would be (very) satisfied with a D2 with higher ISO and 8 to 12 MP and slightly better AF.

 

It's a perfect camera otherwise for so many things.

 

The D3 is between two chairs for me, but I'm not entirely rulig it out as I was offered one without the lens (tragic accident at the dealer) and I would only use it with R lenses anyway.