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Time for Digilux 4


Irek

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Leica is in trouble after cease Digital Modul for R8/R9 cameras. The company is trying to hold R system alive by offering R-Adapter for Digilux 3. At that moment it's only move possible. But what's next. R10 will be available as soon as on Photokina 2008, I think.

So, maybe it's time for next iteration of Digilux camera (but not D system). Digilux 1 is a very good camera (I own one). Digilux 2 is a very good camera (I have missed purchase of this model to wait for Digilux with interchangeable lens). But Digilux 3 is a disaster, because of price and poor quality of optical viewfinder (and I have bought Pentax K10D - TIPA Awards 2007 for Best D-SLR Expert, but I am still Leica fan).

So, maybe it's time for Digilux 4 with sensor from M8 (10MP, crop factor 1,33) and interchangeable lens from R system (and new lens for R system on the base on recent achievements in optical design - see very light and compact Elmarit-M 28 mm f/2.8 ASPH), but with electronic viewfinder like in Digilux 2.

Why such configuration.

Because volume purchase of M8 sensors can reduce costs of this sensor and software is ready and most of problems are passed.

But you can say, why the hell electronic viewfinder again. Because it's future. Simple.

Digilux 2 has viewfinder with 235000 pixels. Now Digilux 4 can have electronic viewfinder with double or triple or more of those quantity. So the quality of view in viewfinder will be at least two-three times better. And in the future those numbers will increase constantly. So, what for, waste engineering energy for optical viewfinders. The next advantage is lightness and compactness of camera body with electronic viewfinder. I think that when you compare quality of such new viewfinder with viewfinder from Digilux 3, you choose electronic version.

So, what's your opinion?

Regards

Irek

 

PS. I can not find any information about Digilux 2 on Leica internet site. Strange. There is not historical Leica News editions, too. Again strange.

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But Digilux 3 is a disaster, because of price and poor quality of optical viewfinder (and I have bought Pentax K10D - TIPA Awards 2007 for Best D-SLR Expert, but I am still Leica fan)..

 

We're happy you like what you bought. But it may surprise you that there's numerous Digilux-3 (and L1) owners here that are happy with their purchase. And they all get blacks black without a filter, don't lock up, and don't have to be sent back. They take outstanding pictures. The new 25mm f/1.4 is nothing short of superb.

 

The D3 viewfinder is not nearly so bad as you suggest (it is an autofocus camera, you know). Certainly much better than any EVF (although it would not surprise me if someone in 4/3 land comes up with an EVIL). Liveview works. The dustbuster works.

 

So, enjoy your purchase, and we'll enjoy ours.

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We're happy you like what you bought. But it may surprise you that there's numerous Digilux-3 (and L1) owners here that are happy with their purchase. And they all get blacks black without a filter, don't lock up, and don't have to be sent back. They take outstanding pictures. The new 25mm f/1.4 is nothing short of superb.

 

The D3 viewfinder is not nearly so bad as you suggest (it is an autofocus camera, you know). Certainly much better than any EVF (although it would not surprise me if someone in 4/3 land comes up with an EVIL). Liveview works. The dustbuster works.

 

So, enjoy your purchase, and we'll enjoy ours.

 

Ain't that the truth.

(Denny.........don't mention the blacks thing too loud or we'll get thrown in shackles here)

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Guest sirvine

Hey why not throw face recognition into that pile of feature demands? You wouldn't want the Digilux 4 to take a picture of a horse's ass instead of a timed-release self portrait would you?

 

As for EVF, I take pictures *instead* of watching TV, not the other way 'round.

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Got to echo the sentiment of the rest of you. The D3 (or L1) is a great camera. It has SLR weaknesses (size, sound), but Leica can hardly be faulted for this. Would I like a larger sensor? Sure, but Leica was not about to develop an auto-focus DSLR on its own, and I'm happy with the Four Thirds decision (Olympus lenses are quite nice --- just bought the 7-14mm Zuiko).

 

And the viewfinder is just fine!! This has to be one of the most "mountain out of a molehill" issues ever discussed. The EVF on the D2 was absolute rubbish, and the D3 is a huge improvement. And I'm willing to trade a little brightness for the compact nature of the porro prism. Sean Reid comes to the same conclusion in his review. As I recall, he said he "didn't notice it", which he considered an attribute (it didn't impact his shooting at all).

 

Now, just bring out that image-stabilized telephoto zoom!

 

Jeff.

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I just recently published a fairly extensive review of the D3 and I thought it was an excellent camera in many respects. In some ways, it's become the Rodney Dangerfield of Leicas. The finder could be better but it is indeed vastly better than the EVF in the D2. Having used one for a month and a couple thousand pictures, I'm puzzled that it gets attacked so often. It *is* expensive and its not the king of high ISO but it does have a lot of strengths.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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Guest stnami

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It *is* expensive and its not the king of high ISO but it does have a lot of strengths.
............ that's where it loses out to canons, nikons etc for those who can afford only one camera............... thus some of the flack
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The Viewfinder on the D3 is good.

 

I have been an Olympus OM1 and OM4 user for 20+ years, where the OM viewfinder is considered one of the best ever:

a) magnification is 0.99x and

B) light throughput is 0.97x

 

I do not find the D3/L1 viewfinder a disaster. It is quite acceptable, and given the features of "liveview" .....which is described as the one of the effects causing the reduced light throughput, makes it very acceptable.

 

The more one uses a D3/L1, the more you realise just how excellent the images are. On deepeereviewdotcom, they are very comparable to the 30D, which with the equivalent Canon lens makes the L1 quite a bargain price camera.

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Hey why not throw face recognition into that pile of feature demands? You wouldn't want the Digilux 4 to take a picture of a horse's ass instead of a timed-release self portrait would you?

 

As for EVF, I take pictures *instead* of watching TV, not the other way 'round.

 

 

That made me laugh a lot.

 

It's a great camera. I very impressed by the by the RAW's. I think Leica should do more to push this camera into the market place. Giving out a free bag you couldn't fit your sandwiches in is not strong marketing.

 

Karlitos.

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Hi There

I'm coming from a slightly different angle, in that I've been a supporter of the 4/3 system since the E1 came out (still, possibly, the nicest camera I've ever owned). The lenses are wonderful, the sealing is great, and although I haven't got the Leica (I already owned the E330) it seems to me to be a pretty good first try.

 

What with the new Olympus lenses coming, the new professional body due at the end of the year, and the obvious commitment of Panasonic and Leica, I think the system has a long way to run.

 

To the extent that when I fell in love with the M8 and decided that one of my SLR systems had to go . . . it was the Nikon gear which went, not the Olympus.

 

The viewfinder isn't perfect, but it's quite useable, and it could certainly be improved in later models (otherwise Pentax and Nikon couldn't have made good viewfinders with a 1.6 crop). I hate EVF - every year or so I make that mistake again (last was the V-lux 1, which was, otherwise, a great camera). It's not so much the quality as the delay (whether real or perceived).

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About the only point I would agree with, in the original post, is that if it was done well a very high resolution EVF could be a lot better than people currently perceive. I would have thought it would also simplify the whole complexity of SLR design.

 

I've only come to this conclusion because since becoming an R-D1 convert, I'm thinking of selling all my Nikon gear and using some of the cash to buy a V-LUX 1. That way, if I need a long throw zoom for the occasional bit of family snappery, I have one. I think the EVF in the V-LUX 1 is very good indeed, or at least the ones I've played with for the occasional ten minutes in camera stores.

 

I'm sure if the technology evovled further the benefits for making it easier to produce live view 'slr' cameras would be worth sacrificing the optical viewfinder for. You could also dial in a black and white view - something you'll never be able to do with an optical viewfinder.

 

Just a thought..... but the rest of the original post, nah, not convinced.

 

LouisB

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I think 4/3 is an interesting format, and given the (seems good) relationship Leica/Panasonic, Solms people have acted rightly starting an entry in what can become an important standard; personally, I do not like Digilux 3, but my one is a sort of esthetic-driven mood: too "bricky"; I think that if 4/3 catches on, Panasonic would do better to make a more classic-compact shaped SLR, and Leica join the bandwagon with its styled version (less plastic, for instance...) and good lenses; I do not see the usefulness of R bayonet on a 4/3 body: it breaks the standard and, for passionate owners of R lenses, adapter is sufficient. I think that IF a future exists for Leica R system, is not related to 4/3, that is tightly connected to Panasonic development: just to chat, I would envision some other inroad in the Full Frame digital SLR... body to be envisioned...

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The adapter offered by Leica is not a signal that the D3 is a replacement for R cameras.

It is exactly in line with what Olympus does with older OM lenses onto 4/3 cameras with their adapter. With the demise of the DMR what the R system needs is a digital SLR, a dSLR.

 

The Leica makes an interesting addition to the growing array of cameras in 4/3, with the current release of E-410, and that of E-510 pending, it is clear that the old bogey of noise is clearly up with the competition in crop sensor dSLRs. I am hoping that the same nMOS technology will find its way into the Leica and Panasonic range. Panasonic have said that a new dSLR will be arriving this year, it will be a cheap entry level camera. No doubt the shape form and specification are already very solid, but I wonder what lay in store from Leica's direction. There is also said to be a pro level 4/3 camera coming from Panasonic, but not this year.

 

I guess we are all much interested in an M8/2, a half M8 with 4/3 sensor and Leica D system and 4/3 lens selection. The very great difficulty with this proposition would be the OVF, as rangefinder configurations are not conducive to lenses that are very long, or zooms. There are just 3 possibilities:

  • A EVF, the notorious EVIL, which would need to have fast video, be without grain. It offers a number of attractive advances. Automatic gain, shooting information.
  • A conventional reflex system as in any dSLR, perhaps this time a prism finder though
  • An exceptional development in OVF. With a coupled zoom inbuilt driven. from information gathered incamera by the lens coding firmware.

 

Either 1 or 3 would rock my socks :)

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I think the last time Leica was in trouble was 1941-1945. And that had nothing to do with photography or cameras.

 

Other than that it is probably a model for a strong company.

 

A camera goes away and another fills it's place. Or not.

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I think 4/3 is an interesting format, and given the (seems good) relationship Leica/Panasonic, Solms people have acted rightly starting an entry in what can become an important standard; personally, I do not like Digilux 3, but my one is a sort of esthetic-driven mood: too "bricky"; I think that if 4/3 catches on, Panasonic would do better to make a more classic-compact shaped SLR, and Leica join the bandwagon with its styled version (less plastic, for instance...) and good lenses; I do not see the usefulness of R bayonet on a 4/3 body: it breaks the standard and, for passionate owners of R lenses, adapter is sufficient. I think that IF a future exists for Leica R system, is not related to 4/3, that is tightly connected to Panasonic development: just to chat, I would envision some other inroad in the Full Frame digital SLR... body to be envisioned...

 

If 4:3 catches on?

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About the only point I would agree with, in the original post, is that if it was done well a very high resolution EVF could be a lot better than people currently perceive. I would have thought it would also simplify the whole complexity of SLR design.

 

I've only come to this conclusion because since becoming an R-D1 convert, I'm thinking of selling all my Nikon gear and using some of the cash to buy a V-LUX 1. That way, if I need a long throw zoom for the occasional bit of family snappery, I have one. I think the EVF in the V-LUX 1 is very good indeed, or at least the ones I've played with for the occasional ten minutes in camera stores.

 

I'm sure if the technology evovled further the benefits for making it easier to produce live view 'slr' cameras would be worth sacrificing the optical viewfinder for. You could also dial in a black and white view - something you'll never be able to do with an optical viewfinder.

 

Just a thought..... but the rest of the original post, nah, not convinced.

 

LouisB

 

HI Louis

I did that (bought the V-Lux for those telephoto and macro moments). It took great shots, and I hated the EVF - I took 1000 shots, and then sold it. I know others disagree, but the real killer is pictures of people - the expression you see in the EVF is already history . . .

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If 4:3 catches on?

As of September last year there were 22 lenses from Olympus and sigma for 4/3, by the end of this year it's likely to be more like 40.

Olympus are bringing out 3 or possibly 4 new bodies this year (including a new professional body with live view). Panasonic are bringing out another and probably Leica as well.

 

I think it's already 'caught'!

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If 4:3 catches on?

 

Uh.. I wanted to say, if 4:3 really acquires a significant market share, with pro models and so... I am not so an expert of DSLR market, but it seems to me that at the moment the 4/3 is not so recognized... Canon and Nikon chose other ways... and (I seem, repeat) that pro users like more Full Frame DSLR...

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Uh.. I wanted to say, if 4:3 really acquires a significant market share, with pro models and so... I am not so an expert of DSLR market, but it seems to me that at the moment the 4/3 is not so recognized... Canon and Nikon chose other ways... and (I seem, repeat) that pro users like more Full Frame DSLR...

 

Nikon may have chosen "other ways", but as far as I know, their cameras do not use full frame sensors. Current shipping models (D2X, D200, D80 etc.) seem to use DX format sensors.

 

Jeff.

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