Obligatory next lens decision... 21Lux, 75Lux, 90APO

[tthorne]

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I started off doing a lot of travel photography, at first, with a very large 2 pro camera/2 pro lens DSLR combo, eventually moving to mirrorless, and finding my way to Leica shortly thereafter. Then I added architecture to my work, and loved the 21mm SEM for a while, but that side of my business got busy and serious over time and I now shoot that with a Canon DSLR and TS-E lenses, retaining my Leica gear for travel and personal. I love my Leica gear while my Canon gear is far less personal to me. In fact, the canon gear is just a toolset to me in a very detached and basic manner. I don't even own any Canon lenses outside the TS-E's that I use.

 

With Leica, it is a bit different, and unlike the old Nikon days with a pair of D3's and 17-35/70-200 combo, I have come to learn that I really shoot a MUCH narrower focal range than that. I also have a bit of a fast lens fetish, which will become obvious. So after much sorting out of gear and using a dedicated Canon system for my architecture work, I am enjoying a pair of M240's (sold my MM recently on a crazy offer, but will buy again) with the following lenses:

 

35mm Lux FLE

50mm Lux ASPH

50mm Noctilux .95

 

I could literally never shoot any other setup, but I admit that not only do I love 21mm, but I also really appreciate Leica quality and it makes me a bit of a gear head. I can't see myself ever having a "collection" of lenses, just the ones I will likely use, to some extent.

 

So I think that I have made up my mind on the 21mm Lux for my next lens, which will see it's fair share of use. Although I loved the SEM when I had it, I no longer need this focal length for serious architecture work, so the less than absolutely perfect SEM lines of the Lux will suit me, and the speed for low light and some minor isolation (at that focal length) sound good to me as well.

 

This leaves me with a tele lens option, which honestly, will hardly ever see any use at all, but still I want it and I can, so I will. I spent some time with the 90mm APO and, needless to say, it is an amazing pieces of work. The 21, 35, 50, 90 kit makes a lot of sense to me as well. But then I read nice things about the 75mm Lux also. I never thought of that Focal length just because it seems so non standard to me, but so what?

 

I don't shoot everything wide open (with the exception of the Noctilux), but for DOF, I understand the 90 APO and 75 Lux wide open are similar in that respect, but naturally with different character that I am still not fully versed in. Then it occurred to me that a 75mm Lux would be slightly better in low light due to faster aperture and slightly shorter focal length. Price is not much different either really. Hmmm...

 

I am thinking out loud because I am bored today and though to share. Any thoughts?

[sillbeers15]

I started off doing a lot of travel photography, at first, with a very large 2 pro camera/2 pro lens DSLR combo, eventually moving to mirrorless, and finding my way to Leica shortly thereafter. Then I added architecture to my work, and loved the 21mm SEM for a while, but that side of my business got busy and serious over time and I now shoot that with a Canon DSLR and TS-E lenses, retaining my Leica gear for travel and personal. I love my Leica gear while my Canon gear is far less personal to me. In fact, the canon gear is just a toolset to me in a very detached and basic manner. I don't even own any Canon lenses outside the TS-E's that I use.

 

With Leica, it is a bit different, and unlike the old Nikon days with a pair of D3's and 17-35/70-200 combo, I have come to learn that I really shoot a MUCH narrower focal range than that. I also have a bit of a fast lens fetish, which will become obvious. So after much sorting out of gear and using a dedicated Canon system for my architecture work, I am enjoying a pair of M240's (sold my MM recently on a crazy offer, but will buy again) with the following lenses:

 

35mm Lux FLE

50mm Lux ASPH

50mm Noctilux .95

 

I could literally never shoot any other setup, but I admit that not only do I love 21mm, but I also really appreciate Leica quality and it makes me a bit of a gear head. I can't see myself ever having a "collection" of lenses, just the ones I will likely use, to some extent.

 

So I think that I have made up my mind on the 21mm Lux for my next lens, which will see it's fair share of use. Although I loved the SEM when I had it, I no longer need this focal length for serious architecture work, so the less than absolutely perfect SEM lines of the Lux will suit me, and the speed for low light and some minor isolation (at that focal length) sound good to me as well.

 

This leaves me with a tele lens option, which honestly, will hardly ever see any use at all, but still I want it and I can, so I will. I spent some time with the 90mm APO and, needless to say, it is an amazing pieces of work. The 21, 35, 50, 90 kit makes a lot of sense to me as well. But then I read nice things about the 75mm Lux also. I never thought of that Focal length just because it seems so non standard to me, but so what?

 

I don't shoot everything wide open (with the exception of the Noctilux), but for DOF, I understand the 90 APO and 75 Lux wide open are similar in that respect, but naturally with different character that I am still not fully versed in. Then it occurred to me that a 75mm Lux would be slightly better in low light due to faster aperture and slightly shorter focal length. Price is not much different either really. Hmmm...

 

I am thinking out loud because I am bored today and though to share. Any thoughts?

 

I have the following M lenses to cover my hobby needs:

21 Lux

35 Lux

50 Noc

90 APO

for longer tele needs:

R180 APO F2.8

for travel:

R80-200 VE F4

[darylgo]

The 21mm is one of my favorites, the images are not SEM sharp but it is a Leica lens so it doesn't fall too far short and rendering is beautiful. Series 8 filters and 82mm adapter rings are the only drawback. The 75mm lens wide open is more a porttrait lens than a landscape lens when speaking in generalities, although one doesn't have to follow conventions. I shoot mine stopped down to f5.6 for landscapes where it competes very well with the 75mm summarit and 75mm apo summicron. Side by side comparisons of all three 75's show the Summarit sharpest with more contrast than the Apo Summicron, the Summilux slightly less sharp, all at f5.6. The differences in practical use are negligible. The 21lux, 50Noct, 75lux would be a sweet combination.

[swamiji]

Well, it's time for my 2 cents. The 75 APO is in the same family as the 50 lux ASPH, and the 50mm .95 Noctilux. It is a FLE and extremely sharp. No Summarit comes close. Though the 75mm Summarit is best of its class.

 

The 75mm lux is a Mandler design, and is similar to the f1 Noctlux, but not quite the same. Mandler lenses are special, but very different than the current design. The tend to be softer, gentler, with a gracious Bokeh. While the Korbe lenses, are sharp, surgically sharp. Both designers are masters, just different.

 

I have shot all three 75mm lenses, and ended up keeping the Lux, and APO. Selling the Summarit, because it was not sharp enough for the Monochrom, and the color was not great on the M240.

 

I am currently building a Mandler kit. I have a f1 Noctilux and 75 Summilux. I am currently have waiting for me a 21 Elmarit (60mm) and an old 35 Summicron (v2).

 

My Korbe, set consists of a 24 lux, 50 lux, 75/90 APO, etc., but will change in the coming year.

[tthorne]

I have the following M lenses to cover my hobby needs:

21 Lux

35 Lux

50 Noc

90 APO

for longer tele needs:

R180 APO F2.8

for travel:

R80-200 VE F4

 

And I assume you are pretty happy with this kit. I see nothing to complain about. This looks similar to what I will end up with, except that I like to keep the 50 Lux around as well. I tend to use it as a normal 50mm through the aperture range whereas I shoot the Noct wide open.

[tthorne]

The 21mm is one of my favorites, the images are not SEM sharp but it is a Leica lens so it doesn't fall too far short and rendering is beautiful. Series 8 filters and 82mm adapter rings are the only drawback. The 75mm lens wide open is more a porttrait lens than a landscape lens when speaking in generalities, although one doesn't have to follow conventions. I shoot mine stopped down to f5.6 for landscapes where it competes very well with the 75mm summarit and 75mm apo summicron. Side by side comparisons of all three 75's show the Summarit sharpest with more contrast than the Apo Summicron, the Summilux slightly less sharp, all at f5.6. The differences in practical use are negligible. The 21lux, 50Noct, 75lux would be a sweet combination.

 

Yes, without question I am likely to pick up a 21mm Lux this week or next. I love the SEM for everything it is as well, but the Lux is going to be my keeper for a wide lens.

 

The 75 Lux is very intriguing to me personally, and is the 75mm I like the most from everything I know. Sometimes I question, however, if 75mm is to close to 50mm, especially when I have the Lux and Nocti. This decision will come down to the 75 Lux and the 90 APO. Nice to know that both are winners in their own right.

[tthorne]

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Well, it's time for my 2 cents. The 75 APO is in the same family as the 50 lux ASPH, and the 50mm .95 Noctilux. It is a FLE and extremely sharp. No Summarit comes close. Though the 75mm Summarit is best of its class.

 

The 75mm lux is a Mandler design, and is similar to the f1 Noctlux, but not quite the same. Mandler lenses are special, but very different than the current design. The tend to be softer, gentler, with a gracious Bokeh. While the Korbe lenses, are sharp, surgically sharp. Both designers are masters, just different.

 

I have shot all three 75mm lenses, and ended up keeping the Lux, and APO. Selling the Summarit, because it was not sharp enough for the Monochrom, and the color was not great on the M240.

 

I am currently building a Mandler kit. I have a f1 Noctilux and 75 Summilux. I am currently have waiting for me a 21 Elmarit (60mm) and an old 35 Summicron (v2).

 

My Korbe, set consists of a 24 lux, 50 lux, 75/90 APO, etc., but will change in the coming year.

 

Before having the .95 Nocti, I owned an f1 for a VERY short time. I always loved the look of the f1 with it's swirly bokeh and soft touch. It was so dreamy. I had a copy that looked like it was brand spanking new too. Unfortunately, the only way I could focus it properly was to compensate with the RF. I have multiple bodies and the lens was off the same on each of them. My new .95 is dead on accurate with my rangefinders though, which is nice.

 

The Mandler designs are truly special in their own way and I really appreciate them. As I said in another post, if I go 75mm, it is going to be Lux all the way. It isn't 100% for the speed, although I admit to being a fast lens junkie. It is also simply because I appreciate the look. For me, it is going to come down to a focal length thing, 75mm vs 90mm, and if the 75mm may be unnecessarily close for a guy who shoots 35 and 50 a lot.

 

Your kits sound superb by the way!

[swamiji]

I find 90mm a funny focal length for Leica. I have tried the elmarits and crons and I just can't find a unique fingerprint. Nothing in the league of the Nocti or 75 lux, so I ended up with just the 90 APO. Which is good, but not unique.

 

It's funny that my current favorite kit is a 28/75. The 28 I have is the Elmarit ASPH and on the M8/9 I hated it's rendering but liked its size. Now on the Monochrom I love it. I am very curious about the 28 lux as well.

 

One thing I like about the new M's is a byproduct of the higher ISO. I don't feel tied to high speed lenses as much, so I am picking lenses based on uniqueness rather than speed.

[A miller]

The 90mm cron APO and 75 lux are on different planets in terms of rendering. This is a fact, like the sky being blue and the sun rising in the east.

 

the 90 APO is a masterpiece of a MODERN lens. It is about as technically pristine as you can get. Perfect in ever way. Tack sharp from corner to corner. Like that A++ student who never misses a day and always gets all the answers correct no matter how difficult the test.

 

One thing I have learned in life is that the A++ students are not always the most successful people in the real world, and not necessarily the ones who end up running our countries and largest companies. Such is life with Leica's lenses.

 

In comes the 75 lux. An older style. Not as tack sharp corner to corner. Slightly softer wide open, and much more finicky to nail focus wide open. Clearly not the A++ student in the geeky sense. Having said this, this lens is like that charasmatic student that doesn't wow you with his/her grades and accolades, but ends up on the top of the totem pole as a man among men (or woman among women); that someone that everyone wants to be around.

 

So it is all about what you plan to use the lens for. If it is for landscapes and architecture using your M240, I might suggest the 90mm if the incrementally long focal length really doesn't bother you. But, if you plan to use the lens to shoot PEOPLE (particularly portraits and headshots), the 75mm lux is clearly the lens you want. And if you ever want to use these lens on a Monochrom, the 75mm lux will reward you handsomely in its classic rendering, while the sterility of the 90 apo might leave a hole in your heart....

 

My two cents...

[swamiji]

Interesting analogy, and quite accurate. My only difference in opinion is with the Monochrom. I find the Monochrom eats sharpness for breakfast, lunch and dinner, and rewards you with medium format like images. I like the 75 lux wide open better on the M240.

[A miller]

I completely see your point and appreciate it very much.

 

I would submit, though, that the MM eats old glass up just as well, although it rewards you with more of a classic rendering that is film-like in the sense that the OOF tones are more creamy. This comes in particularly handy with portraits and street shots.

 

I personally have chosen the 75 lux over the 90 cron for my gear (incl the MM).

 

Having said this, I again emphasize that there is a wide array of situations in which sharpness from corner to corner is very valuable and the 90 cron apo really shines in this regard.

 

For someone who has the wherewithall to own both, I really think a case can be made for doing so as each lens really is the master of its own separate domain. If you shoot in both domains and can afford it, you'll maximize your enjoyment with ownership of both lenses.

[swamiji]

Your opinion is well balanced, I might suggest however 75 lux for portraits and 75 APO for street (if money was unlimited).

 

These days, I find my 90mm APO on the shelf, rather than in my bag..

[algrove]

I like the Mandler/Karbe philosophie where one assembles those lenses from each designer which work best for the image maker. Any lenses I send in now I request Leica to calibrate for M240 use, even though my MM holds a dear corner of my heart.

 

Mandler --21/2.8, 50/1.0, 75/1.4 and add in the 35 and/or 50 Summicron or Summilux of choice.

 

Karbe--21/1.4, 35/1.4, APO 50/2, 90/2, even though I have all the others to choose from.

 

Currently on a light weight trip with 2xM240 + WATE, 28/2.8, 35/1.4, APO50/2 and 90/2.8. Both extremes seldom used, but glad I have them. Should have packed the MM too, as I miss it in Paris. Then again will be glad to have the M240 kit for D day in Normandie.

[darylgo]

Yes, without question I am likely to pick up a 21mm Lux this week or next. I love the SEM for everything it is as well, but the Lux is going to be my keeper for a wide lens.

 

The 75 Lux is very intriguing to me personally, and is the 75mm I like the most from everything I know. Sometimes I question, however, if 75mm is to close to 50mm, especially when I have the Lux and Nocti. This decision will come down to the 75 Lux and the 90 APO. Nice to know that both are winners in their own right.

 

The 75/50 closeness issue is voiced often. I am hesitant about buying the 90mm Apo because I have two 75's. I view these as loose 90's that allow cropping (to a 90) with normal print sizes.

[algrove]

The 75/50 closeness issue is voiced often. I am hesitant about buying the 90mm Apo because I have two 75's. I view these as loose 90's that allow cropping (to a 90) with normal print sizes.

 

Have you tried a 90 recently?

[darylgo]

Have you tried a 90 recently?

 

Yes, several.

[swamiji]

The 75/50 closeness issue is voiced often. I am hesitant about buying the 90mm Apo because I have two 75's. I view these as loose 90's that allow cropping (to a 90) with normal print sizes.

 

 

I resolved that by never carrying both a 50 and a 75 for the same body at the same time.

 

My current M240 travel kit is a WATE, MATE, Macro 100 R with macro adapter and 2x.

 

My current Monochrom travel kit is 28 2.8 ASPH and the 75 APO.

 

Though today I have the M240 with the 28 2.8 ASPH and the 75 lux...

[IkarusJohn]

Your opinion is well balanced, I might suggest however 75 lux for portraits and 75 APO for street (if money was unlimited).

 

These days, I find my 90mm APO on the shelf, rather than in my bag..

 

I have a landscape print on my wall. It's about 1 metre on the long side, taken with the 75 Summilux, and it is tack sharp.

 

I've had it services at Solms, and I'd have to say that while it is soft wide open (with that lovely Mandler quality), it is very sharp stopped down. I love this lens with the Monochrom.

 

I sold the APO because I couldn't reliably focus it, and I didn't get that little bit more that I could get with the Summilux. Interesting that Peter Karbe apparently really doesn't like this lens ...

 

Cheers

John

[swamiji]

Must have been your copy of the APO, I don't have any issues with focus and it provides remarkable detail. It's actually a nice match for the 28 2.8 ASPH.

 

Yes, stopped down, the Lux is quite sharp.

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[sillbeers15]

And I assume you are pretty happy with this kit. I see nothing to complain about. This looks similar to what I will end up with, except that I like to keep the 50 Lux around as well. I tend to use it as a normal 50mm through the aperture range whereas I shoot the Noct wide open.

 

M or no M, Waiting for Leica to introduce the next FF with AF & AF lenses. In my opinion, 80mm to 200mm zoom makes sense to be AF lens while other prime lenses can be supported by M lenses with superb optical quality no other lenses can beat!