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Johannes Knightworth

Interesting M8 Review ....

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Guest sirvine

Probably the best way to prove the M8's mettle is for owners to start producing images that induce camera lust in others. This board is great place to get up to speed on the minutae of the device (which is not the most user friendly of systems in the age of 10MP idiot-proofed DSLRs). The rest is pretty much idle talk and comparing notes, and there's nothing wrong with that.

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I'll tell you what--I will keep an open mind about the M8. Perhaps I will have a chance to revisit it in the future, and get to know it better. If I find I should revise my opinions at that time, I shall.

Mike J.

 

Hi Mike,

 

If you get a chance sometime, make some very large final prints from M8 files that you like. You may be surprised at what's really there in those RAW files.

 

Best,

 

Sean

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Someone who would use the LCD screen (any LCD screen) to judge exposure, apparently ignoring that the histogram is a much better tool, or that there is even a histogram at all, cannot be taken very seriously. As for not even knowing by now that the M8 needs an IR-cut filter while still judging its color rendering, well, this can be seen either as crass

ignorance or pure dishonesty. Make your pick. In any case, allow me to dismiss this «review» as... a joke.

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Probably the best way to prove the M8's mettle is for owners to start producing images that induce camera lust in others. This board is great place to get up to speed on the minutae of the device (which is not the most user friendly of systems in the age of 10MP idiot-proofed DSLRs). The rest is pretty much idle talk and comparing notes, and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

These are the most insightful remarks in this thread, Sol. You've hit the bullseye of the real issue.

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Someone who would use the LCD screen (any LCD screen) to judge exposure, apparently ignoring that the histogram is a much better tool, or that there is even a histogram at all, cannot be taken very seriously. As for not even knowing by now that the M8 needs an IR-cut filter while still judging its color rendering, well, this can be seen either as crass

ignorance or pure dishonesty. Make your pick. In any case, allow me to dismiss this «review» as... a joke.

 

I didn't see anything in the review about using the LCD to judge exposure. (Perhaps I missed it.) I don't see how Mike Johnston could not have known about the filters.

 

But back to the LCD and those who dis "chimping." (I'm not picking out anyone in particular.) Considering that the M8 is not an SLR and thus has parralax and framelines that only approximate the field of view. So how can you accurately frame a subject with any precision if you don't practice shooting, chimping and re-shooting? So being able to use the LCD in bright light and at odd angles (let's say the camera is mounted high or low on a tripod) would be important to some shooters.

 

And don't any of you ever have to balance the exposure with multiple flash units? I usually do that by shooting tethered but occassionally have to do that via the LCD. I am not criticiszing the M8's LCD, I am just saying that I often feel the LCD in a digital camera is a very valuable tool. I took some of my first digital images with a Kodak DCS 460 so I know what it is like to not have an LCD.

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Hi Mike,

 

If you get a chance sometime, make some very large final prints from M8 files that you like. You may be surprised at what's really there in those RAW files.

 

Best,

 

Sean

 

Might I add that the biggest advantage of the M8 kit over the 5D/20D alternative is the one of size and unobstrusiveness. The M8 with a old Nikon 35mm F2.5 is hardly bigger than a point and shoot. I can hold it in the palm of my hand with a Gordy wrist strap.

Or it can slip into a medium size coat pocket. Then with a 15mm Heliar and a 50mm F2 collapsable rattleing around in my pocket, I have most of the bases covered for most street shooting/vacation situations.

Look Ma...No camera bag!!

Try that with your 5D

 

Rex....arf,arf!

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Imants, you really are a masterful irritant--like the pepper spray of online fora. And I mean that in the best way.

I think the term is gadfly. Iconoclast may be a better description considering the icons being worshipped here. He tries to keep the forum honest but I'm sure he realizes that it's a hopeless task. So we have Imants, Quiotiean iconoclastic gadfly and long may he tilt.

 

George Deliz

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Really, apart from a few isolated comments which are perfectly understandable (and a little, but not too much, nastiness), much of the commentary in this thread is not unreasonable, and some of it is well considered. All in all I don't think it's unfriendly or unwarranted, and I learned a few things.

 

tjphoto, that's a lovely portrait.

 

I'll tell you what--I will keep an open mind about the M8. Perhaps I will have a chance to revisit it in the future, and get to know it better. If I find I should revise my opinions at that time, I shall.

 

In the meantime, if the M8 is what you choose to use, don't let my comments worry you in the least. Forge on. Everyone should use whatever camera they want to. Photography should be fun.

 

If anyone is still feeling hot and bothered, please go read the last two lines of my "Con" report one more time (right below the infamous "Podiatrist" picture, which I simply thought was amusing).

 

Best regards,

 

Mike J.

Golly, gee whiz Mike! How about saying something other than "Go Visit My Site"?

 

So, what could you post here about your M8? Or are you here to promote your blog?

 

rgds,

Dave

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Might I add that the biggest advantage of the M8 kit over the 5D/20D alternative is the one of size and unobstrusiveness. The M8 with a old Nikon 35mm F2.5 is hardly bigger than a point and shoot. I can hold it in the palm of my hand with a Gordy wrist strap.

Or it can slip into a medium size coat pocket. Then with a 15mm Heliar and a 50mm F2 collapsable rattleing around in my pocket, I have most of the bases covered for most street shooting/vacation situations.

Look Ma...No camera bag!!

 

 

Right, I appreciate that, too. One small annoyance is that now that my 50/2 collapsible sports an IR filter, the classic metal Leica lens cap keeps falling off. So for more than one extra lens, I'm back to the gas mask bag and lenses in socks. Maybe some Christmas there will be a Billingham in my future, but I doubt that the need has been recognized.

 

scott

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Right, I appreciate that, too. One small annoyance is that now that my 50/2 collapsible sports an IR filter, the classic metal Leica lens cap keeps falling off. So for more than one extra lens, I'm back to the gas mask bag and lenses in socks. Maybe some Christmas there will be a Billingham in my future, but I doubt that the need has been recognized.

 

scott

 

Scott,

 

I was having the same problem with my 50/2 Summitar. I decided to replace the liner of the cap. I raided my wife's materials box and cut a thin strip off a piece of heavy black silk velvet I found in there (I will get shot if I ever get found out), teased out the old flattened hood liner and glued in a new strip using weak rubbery glue. Now the cap doesn't fall off any more.

 

Wilson

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Guest stnami
I think the term is gadfly. Iconoclast may be a better description considering the icons being worshipped here.
............. gotta keep on dodging those damn uicorns, I remember in the old days when I used to kick around with Noah:) he had a hassle or two with them showing off:D

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Two threads now.... I don't get all the hoohah. I don't think that anybody on this forum will deny that the M8 is a quirky prima donna of a camera. And like any prima donna will deliver incredible results - if handled by sympathetic users, who have the knowledge and/or the interest to get the best out of it. So don't expect the whole world to fall flat on its face in admiration when confronted with it. Especially a high strung rangefinder will not fit the needs or photographic inclination of everybody, no matter how good or accomplished a photographer they may be. So, Mike's opinion is just that, his opinion and it reflects the opinion of 99.9999 % of the world population, given that 0.0001% of that population will buy this camera at most. (Maybe I even dropped one or two zeroes

)No big deal.

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Jaap,

 

I think, if I may be so bold as to speak on behalf of my fellow forum members, what riled us was that his criticism was so badly argued. We all know that the M8 is far from perfect but the one thing it is exceptionally capable of, given a bit of time, practice and patience, is taking wonderful photographs. As you well know, it is not a point and shoot camera for the beginner, not least because it really only comes to life with RAW/DNG. He seemed to imply that anyone who bought it was an idiot, swayed solely by the fact that it was expensive, which is really insulting. In my case, I sold my entire collection of film Contaxes and lenses to buy the M8 and lenses and gave up this year's skiing holiday in order to afford two extra lenses. Many others will have made similar sacrifices. When the level of his testing found that the AWB was good but the image making capabilities mediocre (maybe the 20 year old Rokkor lens was not up to much), it really says everything about the rigorous way he tested it. I think that Tim summed up the whole thing very well.

 

Wilson

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Jaap,

 

I think that Tim summed up the whole thing very well.

 

Wilson

Thanks Wilson - nice to briefly rise above pariah status!

 

;-)

 

Tim

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Wilson, I agree, but my take is : the dogs may bark but the caravan moves on. Shrug and disregard. As somebody else suggested, he may have been primed by being incourteously handled by members of some other Leica forum.

Still, that should not make a difference. For instance Sean had his spot of trouble on RFF and never allowed anything negative about that to show in his posts afterwards

 

Btw, did you get your 50 sorted?

 

Jaap,

 

The detents on the aperture ring on the Elmar are becoming more definite with use. I think the little spring/detent ball may have been a bit sticky with lack of use. The aperture ring is still pretty wobbly but the thought of sending it to Solms fills me with dread, after my experience trying and failing to get my Elmar 90 coded. I went and looked at another brand new Elmar 50 in my nearest Leica dealer and the aperture ring was just about as wobbly as mine. Even the dealer felt that it was not quite up to usual Leica standards. As they said in the Cockney musical "Fings ain't wot they used t'be". However it is rapidly becoming my favourite lens - the Biogon 35 is sitting sulking in the bag.

 

Wilson

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I didn't see anything in the review about using the LCD to judge exposure. (Perhaps I missed it.) I don't see how Mike Johnston could not have known about the filters...

 

 

Well, he does say (regarding the LCD screen) (quote):

 

«The directionality is its real Achilles' heel. If you're as little as 10 or 20 degrees off-axis, the image is degraded such that you can't evaluate color or exposure even approximately.» (end quote)

 

As for filters, he says that his friend reported (quote):

 

«Having shot about a dozen images on my little SD card with Mike L.'s loaner M8 and my 40 Rokkor... The first thing that struck me was the color rendering. Your face was imaged in a lurid shade of deep pink not usually seen outside of Toys 'R' Us...» (end quote).

 

Nowhere does he mention that this might be due to the absence of an IR-cut filter. If he knows about it, it's dishonesty. If he does not, it's ignorance.

 

There.

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This is Mike Johnston being quoted from post No. 60 in this thread

 

Really, apart from a few isolated comments which are perfectly understandable (and a little, but not too much, nastiness), much of the commentary in this thread is not unreasonable, and some of it is well considered. All in all I don't think it's unfriendly or unwarranted, and I learned a few things......I'll tell you what--I will keep an open mind about the M8..

 

This is Mike Johnston being quoted from his blog today:

 

Well, naturally I've gotten raked over the coals in many of the Leica forums this morning, for insufficient worship (here and here) of the M8. I'm getting called names, insulted, denigrated, accused of name dropping and bias and of having no qualifications......... With some Leicaphiles, as with religion, if you're not a true believer then you're automatically an apostate. There's no such thing as the moderate middle ground. You really can't insert enough qualifiers or make the criticisms gentle enough—either you believe, or you suck.

 

Anybody spot a difference in tone between the two quotes?

 

Mike - You have let yourself down with a piece of lazy, shoddy journalism with your M8 'review' for reasons well covered by others in this thread, and you have let yourself, and your readers, down with the silly characterisation I have quoted from your blog. Had you done just a little homework before writing your two pieces, you could have realised that this forum has been dissecting the early M8's problems since 36 hours after the first adopters collected their cameras. If this forum is a 'church' to you then you must have a strange idea of it's religion. My experience of this forum is that it has been a platform for very strong criticism of Leica, but concomitant with efforts to get the best out of the M8.

 

By all means dislike the M8 after your cursory look at it, but don't attack critics holding you to account for your sloppy, lazy, [and given your platform, damaging] journalism. Going on the attack in your blog has displayed an arrogance I would previously have thought unworthy of you, To me it looks rather childish.

 

Oh yes; I'm a first time Leica buyer, I've used roll film range-finders and view cameras exclusively for the last 25+ years,I am firmly agnostic about all camera manufacturers, and I am poor. My reasons for downsizing to the M8 have been very carefully thought out, it was a major decision made after lengthy research of the camera's capabilities. And no worship!

 

....................Chris

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Guest guy_mancuso

I find the whole thing pretty #&)+) stupid just to make a few advertising dollars and ruin a reputation. I will let him quietly bury his own ass and stay out of it. This forum has proved him wrong even before he wrote the words.

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Guest malland

Why the vituperation? Why the rage? Some people love the M8, some do not. Basically, all Mike Johnston concluded was — after pointing out some positive things about about the camera — that he was disappointed by it. It's easy to understand the reasons for his disappointment, as it is easy to understand the reasons that Sean Reid likes it. When you get a new camera do you have feel that everyone has to like it, that both Mike Johnston and Sean Reid have like it? This thread is getting absurd.

 

To me, it's all about the pictures and I've posted on MJ's blog and in the other thread here the reasons that, for the time being, I'm sticking to small sensor cameras (Ricoh GR-D and Leica D-Lux 3). So far I've seen some M8 photographs that are technically good, but artistically boring. Eventually we'll see some that are more interesting. But, to underline my emphasis on the pictures,here are two taken with the D-Lux 3 (sorry if you've seen them before):

 

 

 

—Mitch/Paris

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10268776@N00/

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Guest guy_mancuso

No Mitch it is all about bad information , could care less if he likes it or not. Not going to change this Pro's mind on what i think and tested

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