Bring back the Elmarits

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[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Luigi,

 

That is very perceptive of you.

 

When Professor Max Berek designed the first of the various Modified Triplet Series lenses that you are writing about he decided to name the Series after his dog Hektor.

 

Perfectly OK, since the Leitz's Leica market was predominantly European.

 

The name continued to be used on earlier lenses until the end of their Production Runs. Like the 135mm F4.5 Hektor which was manufactured until 1960.

 

Modified Triplet designs produced after the USofA became the major market for Leitz's Leica Cameras & Lenses were usually called "Elmarits". Such as the 90mm F2.8 of 1958 designed by Walter Mandler.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

[UliWer]

Hello Luigi,

 

That is very perceptive of you.

 

When Professor Max Berek designed the first of the various Modified Triplet Series lenses that you are writing about he decided to name the Series after his dog Hektor.

 

Perfectly OK, since the Leitz's Leica market was predominantly European.

 

The name continued to be used on earlier lenses until the end of their Production Runs. Like the 135mm F4.5 Hektor which was manufactured until 1960.

 

Modified Triplet designs produced after the USofA became the major market for Leitz's Leica Cameras & Lenses were usually called "Elmarits". Such as the 90mm F2.8 of 1958 designed by Walter Mandler.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

 

The story about Berek's dog always makes me glad that its name wasn't "Fifi" or "Scruffy".

 

I think the sense of the "it" ending in Elmarit was quite simple: to indicate that it was "better" than the original Elmar: one or a half stop more light, or a new design. The first example was the Summitar - better than the Summar but with the same f/2.

 

The next one was the 1:1.5/50 Summarit - almost one stop more than the Summar, the next the 90mm Elmarit compared to the 4/90mm Elmar.

 

They didn't rename the 1:2.8/50 Elmar - just because of its classical standing.

 

The "on" in Summaron wanted to indicate: not faster but wider.

 

The new Summarits don't fit in the tradtion namewise, since they are not faster than the original 2/50 Summar, so they either should be Hektors (obviously a no-go when they came out) or a new variant of Elmarits - also rather lame sounding.

 

Just names - not much sense in them.

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello UliWer,

 

I think another reason there was no name change when the 50mm Elmar, F3.5 was redesigned to have an aperture of F2.8 was:

 

It remained a classical Elmar (Tessar) formula.

 

I think the current "Summarit" Series might be named as such because there might be a certain "commonality of perspective" in regard to optical design.

 

Also: To re-issue a new "Elmarit" line might put Leica into competition with itself. Some people think that this type of competition "with itself " is what led Leica to discontinue the last 90mm Elmarit-M. Leaving only the current 90mm Summicron.

 

Both are clearly outstanding lenses.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

[asiafish]

Hello UliWer,

 

I think another reason there was no name change when the 50mm Elmar, F3.5 was redesigned to have an aperture of F2.8 was:

 

It remained a classical Elmar (Tessar) formula.

 

I think the current "Summarit" Series might be named as such because there might be a certain "commonality of perspective" in regard to optical design.

 

Also: To re-issue a new "Elmarit" line might put Leica into competition with itself. Some people think that this type of competition "with itself " is what led Leica to discontinue the last 90mm Elmarit-M. Leaving only the current 90mm Summicron.

 

Both are clearly outstanding lenses.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

 

They didn't leave only the 90mm Summicron as the 90mm Summarit took over where the Elmarit left off. Slightly faster, smaller, lighter and with equal optical quality, though lesser build quality and no built-in hood. By just about every account on the web the 90 Summarit is a very successful design.

 

I don't shoot 90mm very often, but I am thoroughly delighted with my 90mm Summarit for the times I need that focal length. It is sharp, has beautiful creamy bokeh and is quite resistant to flare. All that, and far smaller and lighter than a Summicron or Elmarit (except for the "thin" version).

[swamiji]

Ah, the hood, the bane of the 75/90 Summarit. It's so large it takes the one advantage of the Summarit away. It makes the lens so large, that it's about the same size as the APO Summicron. So I figured, if I was going to carry that bulk, I might as well have the quality, so I upgraded.

[asiafish]

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Ah, the hood, the bane of the 75/90 Summarit. It's so large it takes the one advantage of the Summarit away. It makes the lens so large, that it's about the same size as the APO Summicron. So I figured, if I was going to carry that bulk, I might as well have the quality, so I upgraded.

 

Summarit has the quality, and is so flare resistant I rarely bother with the hood. Even with the hood, its also MUCH lighter, and of course cheaper. My only complaint (other than the hood not being built-in) is that the minimum focus distance is a bit TOO distant.

[swamiji]

I have not found the summarits any more flare resistant than the elmarits they replaced. The hood is of course reservable, and doubles as a tea cup in an emergency. Then there is that lovely rubber grip. Argh

[MarkP]

well this thread has inspired me to complete the Leica Lite lens set I've wanted for some time - for when I don't want to take out the big and heavy fast lenses.

 

I've wanted the 2.8/28, 2.8/50, and 4.0/90 Macro-Elmar (of which I only have the 90). 3 lenses, combined weight under 600g combined, standard 39mm filters for all

 

...well that was until literally 10 minutes ago when on impulse I bought a mint 2.8/50 Elmar-M, 6-bit coded, 2005 production date, from Japan.

 

So two down, one to go (but I do so love the 28 Summicron so I'll have to think about that one (but probably not for to long )...

[lct]

I've wanted the 2.8/28, 2.8/50, and 4.0/90 Macro-Elmar

Great little lenses indeed. My own light set a well with the Biogon 35/2.8 replacing the Elmarit 28/2.8 asph when i don't need to go that wide.

[k-hawinkler]

A few more choice names ... http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/1684786-post5.html

[MarkP]

I went down to the coast/beach late this afternoon in the fading light with the 4.0/28-50 Tri-Elmar and 4.0/90 on the Monochrom and had no real problems with adequate light.

The higher resolution and base ISO of the Monochrom gives me lenses at least a stop faster than their designation.

 

So, with respect to speed this compact lens set of 2.8/28, 2.8/50, and 4.0/90ME will effectively give me 28 and 50 Summicrons, and a 90 Elmar on the Monochrom

 

And I've always got the 2.0/40 to take with the 90 as a two lens kit.

[pgk]

Then there is that lovely rubber grip. Argh

Having owned the 35mm Summarit and been loaned the 75mm, my only gripe about them is the rubber grip - if there were mistakes made by Leica they were the rubber grips on the 'longer' lenses, and seperating them from the M lens line up (which Leica still do - I've just checked their website) which infers a 'difference' between them and the other ('better') Leica M lenses. IMO they should have been marketed as slower, compact, 'traditionally designed' lenses (none aspheric) and simply included with the other M lenses.

 

As for Elmarits, well I have the last 90mm Elmarit-M and the Tele-Elmarit-M. The Elmarit-M is a superb performer indeed, but retaining another 'slow' 90mm in the line up can't make good sense, especially as it would probably cost more than the Summarit, so I really don't see the need to do so myself.

[DigitalHeMan]

The hood is of course reservable, and doubles as a tea cup in an emergency

 

 

Don't you end up with tea down the front of your shirt though?

[swamiji]

Don't you end up with tea down the front of your shirt though?

 

 

I guess it depends on which end you put the cap )

[swamiji]

Having owned the 35mm Summarit and been loaned the 75mm, my only gripe about them is the rubber grip - if there were mistakes made by Leica they were the rubber grips on the 'longer' lenses, and seperating them from the M lens line up (which Leica still do - should have been marketed as slower,

 

 

I first ran in to this abomination with the Leica Vario-Elmar-R 70-210, made by Minolta for Leica. Not exactly a star performer, an entry level lens that looked and felt cheap. Sad to see it repeated again in the Summarit line. I agree that it's not the way these lenses should be presented. Certainly as a compact, travel friendly update to the Elmarit line, would have been better. However a little more attention to build quality would have been needed.

[james.liam]

Undoubtly.. see Hektor...

 

Wasn't 'Hektor' the name of Ernst Leitz or Oskar Barnack's dog?

 

Maybe Summarit could have been a diminutive for a Sumerian woman...

[MarkP]

Great little lenses indeed. My own light set a well with the Biogon 35/2.8 replacing the Elmarit 28/2.8 asph when i don't need to go that wide.

 

I'd previously considered the 2.8/35 Biogon as I like the Zeiss lenses, but I'm led to believe that it is a very high contrast lens.

Is this your experience?

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[lct]

I have no experience with Summarit 90/2.5 and 75/2.5 lenses but they have an excellent reputation and my Summarit 35/2.5 and 50/2.5 are among the best lenses in their category if not the very best for their small size with very few exceptions like my favorite Biogon 35/2.8. As for rubber grips, the most famous R lenses had one like the very sought after Apo-Telyt 280/4.

I first ran in to this abomination with the Leica Vario-Elmar-R 70-210, made by Minolta for Leica. Not exactly a star performer, an entry level lens that looked and felt cheap. Sad to see it repeated again in the Summarit line. I agree that it's not the way these lenses should be presented. Certainly as a compact, travel friendly update to the Elmarit line, would have been better. However a little more attention to build quality would have been needed.

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[lct]

I'd previously considered the 2.8/35 Biogon as I like the Zeiss lenses, but I'm led to believe that it is a very high contrast lens.

Is this your experience?

Yes indeed. Matches very well other high contrast lenses like Elmar 50/2.8 v2 and Elmarit 28/2.8 asph. Its only competitor IMO is the Summarit 35/2.5 which is a contrasty lens as well. I prefer the Biogon for its better sharpness in borders and corners and its superior resistance to flare but the Summarit 35 is no slouch at all there and has become the standard lens in my "extra-lite" combo with Fuji X-E2, CV 21/4 and Summarit 50/2.5. FWIW.