Leica T App, 1 iPhone and no WIFI. Now it works

[IkarusJohn]

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Just tried what Jasp suggests, and it worked.

[jonoslack]

When you "start a hotspot" you are creating a wifi network using your phones data plan. Not everyone has the ability to do this. In the US it's a $60/mo option that requires canceling your unlimited data plan...so most people don't have the option.

Additionally, this requires a data network. What we want is an ad hoc option...w/ ad hoc you don't need access to data network, it's a simple point to point connection that can occur anywhere.

 

Hi There

Of course, I don't know about your contract. However

 

I think you are missing the point though. Why must Leica only allow this connection in areas where a data connection exists. With ad hoc you DONT NEED Internet.

 

 

IT DOES NOT NEED A DATA NETWORK to set up a wifi hotspot. I absolutely know this, I did it on an underground train where there was no wireless and no signal from anywhere. The phone app does not access the internet or even your location services.

 

But that may not be the case for everyone?

Edited May 27, 2014 by jonoslack

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[jonoslack]

The personal hotspot still works even if you don't have a cellular connection.

no it doesn't

Actually, it does on my phone - see above. But again, maybe this is related to the country you're in?

[plasticman]

Just a few points about all of this:

 

- Jaap's workaround will not work with phones that have upgraded to iOS7.1 - the ability to switch to an unsupported network to create hotspots was disabled in that update.

 

- the iPhone is designed to not share an existing wifi network, only a cellular data connection. That necessity would be moot in any case, because the camera could connect independently to the existing wifi network, anyway (as described in the manual).

 

- the iPhone does need a cellular network to create a hotspot, but there are certain core frameworks that app developers can use to enable peer-to-peer communication - afaik the MultipeerConnectivity framework may support this functionality (I'm not an iOS developer, so I don't know for sure), but there's no indication that Leica have made use of this framework in their app, and I'm pretty doubtful whether even this framework amounts effectively to the iPhone itself creating an ad hoc connection (the phone isn't supposed to support this) .

 

- jailbreaking your iPhone voids the warranty. Buying an unlocked iPhone (I did, as it happens) costs a minimum of about a thousand dollars in Sweden at the moment.

 

- many European countries have restrictive plans. My mother lives in Spain and signed-up for a plan that doesn't allow for tethering (or pretty much anything else). There are large variations from country to country even in Europe.

 

Naturally all of this should be solved when Leica update the camera to support this basic functionality.

 

IT DOES NOT NEED A DATA NETWORK to set up a wifi hotspot. I absolutely know this, I did it on an underground train where there was no wireless and no signal from anywhere.

 

A personal hotspot is sharing your cellular network connection. It isn't creating an ad hoc network. Writing everything in uppercase doesn't change the way the phone works unfortunately.

Edited May 27, 2014 by plasticman

[jaapv]

A Thousand $$?

 

You must be joking!

 

Apple iPhone 4S 8GB Zwart kopen? Goedkope GSMs op KIESKEURIG

 

 

A personal hotspot is sharing your cellular network connection. It isn't creating an ad hoc network. Writing everything in uppercase doesn't change the way the phone works unfortunately

It seems to me that Jono is describing the way his iPhone is working....

 

And my Phone works exactly as described, and has IOS 7.1.1....

 

I can set up a hotspot when it has no service.

 

So it seems your information is not borne out by fact

Edited May 27, 2014 by jaapv

[plasticman]

A Thousand $$?

 

You must be joking!

 

Apple iPhone 4S 8GB Zwart kopen? Goedkope GSMs op KIESKEURIG

 

Well at the obvious risk of falling for this distraction - I was talking about current models. I don't know what a 4S costs, but I guess they are still available somewhere.

Edit: found the cheapest 8Gb model for just under 3000sek which is about $450. Personally this discussion seems useless, as it would be better to sit out the wait for Leica to implement ad hoc connecting.

 

As for the way Jono's phone is working - according to Apple it isn't possible, but naturally they may not know about his particular experience.

Edited May 27, 2014 by plasticman

[jaapv]

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4S are still being sold as current, as they are smaller than the 5 series.... The shops are full of them. I had the choice of the two as a free Phone with my subscription renewal last week.

 

Unlocking your iPhone will NOT void your guaranty:

 

http://forum.gsmhosting.com/vbb/f819/t-next-unlocking-rsim-will-not-void-your-guaranty-very-good-news-1688587/

 

The iPhone 5 is 550/650 euro btw.

Edited May 27, 2014 by jaapv

[plasticman]

And my Phone works exactly as described, and has IOS 7.1.1....

I can set up a hotspot when it has no service.

So it seems your information is not borne out by fact

 

Ok fair enough. The way the iPhone hotspot protocol is described by Apple precludes this sort of connection. But it seems like different countries may have local variations in their data plans, and that may be the explanation.

 

Here's a reference to the 7.1 update:

Apple cracks down on Personal Hotspot abuse with iOS 7.1 update

I assume the networks in the Netherlands are open for data sharing.

[jonoslack]

Hi There

 

A personal hotspot is sharing your cellular network connection. It isn't creating an ad hoc network. Writing everything in uppercase doesn't change the way the phone works unfortunately.

 

Well, I quite agree (I was using upper case to emphasise that it worked, rather than to make it work ) -

 

however - both Jaap and I have managed to create a personal hotspot with the phone saying 'no service' - and we are both using 7.1.1

However - It doesn't work if you turn off cellular data (whether you have a signal or not).

 

But - It's not really very valuable to have an argument about this, or even to say what 'should' happen - What would be great is to get to the bottom of what does work and what doesn't work. At that point we can have a proper discussion about what would be better.

 

It's hardly Leica's fault if some people in the states don't want a personal hotspot because it negates their old fashioned unlimited data contract - on the other hand, if this affects lots of people then perhaps we can get Leica to change the way it works for the better.

 

My current observation is that if:

Cellular Data is switched on

Then you can create a hotspot without any service (i.e. the phone says No Service).

 

Perhaps others could have a check and see what they can do (in different countries).

 

all the best

Edited May 27, 2014 by jonoslack

[jonoslack]

Ok fair enough. The way the iPhone hotspot protocol is described by Apple precludes this sort of connection. But it seems like different countries may have local variations in their data plans, and that may be the explanation.

 

Here's a reference to the 7.1 update:

Apple cracks down on Personal Hotspot abuse with iOS 7.1 update

I assume the networks in the Netherlands are open for data sharing.

 

Hi There

Are we not talking slightly at cross purposes here? - Neither Jaap nor I are actually accessing the internet - simply creating the hotspot. I've read the article, but it doesn't seem to relate to what we are actually achieving - are these people complaining that they can't set up the hotspot? or that it doesn't connect to the internet (which is not relevant to us).

 

I'm not a technical expert (as you'll realise ) To be honest I couldn't care less about the App with the Leica T either - but I do understand others are concerned, and it would be good to be able to get to the bottom of it.

 

All the best

[jaapv]

Ok fair enough. The way the iPhone hotspot protocol is described by Apple precludes this sort of connection. But it seems like different countries may have local variations in their data plans, and that may be the explanation.

 

Here's a reference to the 7.1 update:

Apple cracks down on Personal Hotspot abuse with iOS 7.1 update

I assume the networks in the Netherlands are open for data sharing.

 

That article actually has two interesting points:

 

1. Swapout your card for a cheap pre-paid and the problem is gone, but more titillating this remark:

 

2.

After Apple's deal with AT&T secured flat-rate unlimited data plans for buyers of the first-generation iPhone, the carrier fought a cat-and-mouse battle with users of unauthorized tethering apps until officially supporting the feature three years later.

 

which actually suggests that the problems in the USA have been resolved.

[IkarusJohn]

As mentioned above, my 5S with iOS 7.1.1 works exactly as described.

 

Oh, and 5C, purchased from the Mac Shop on 5th Ave last month cost $500, unlocked.

Edited May 27, 2014 by IkarusJohn
typo

[plasticman]

Unlocking your iPhone will NOT void your guaranty:

AT&T Next Unlocking with RSIM will NOT Void Your Guaranty.. VERY GOOD NEWS - GSM-Forum

 

Difficult to follow this discussion as posts are being updated all the time with new points...

 

Anyway, just for clarification as the link to that rather dodgy-looking forum post isn't really an authoritative statement imho - if you've bought your phone with a data plan, then only that carrier can decide whether the phone can be unlocked without voiding your warranty.

[jaapv]

If you google it there are dozens of pages confirming that unlocking does not void guaranty. It is a carrier thing, not a Phone thing.

 

and for 7.1:

 

Notice the "no service" label.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited May 27, 2014 by jaapv

[plasticman]

If you google it there are dozens of pages confirming that unlocking does not void guaranty. It is a carrier thing, not a Phone thing.

 

and for 7.1:

 

Notice the "no service" label.

 

Ok Jaap - if you say the camera can connect to this hotspot then fine. My understanding is that the iPhone is designed to not create an independent wifi network, but your experience is obviously different.

 

As for the first point above - that was exactly what I said. I'm not sure whether you edited your answer, as the first time I glanced at your post it seemed to be that you were contradicting me??

 

Anyway, all of this still seems beyond extraordinary to me: suggestions to buy new phones or change data plans and so on, to support functionality that should be built into the camera from day one.

 

Anyway not sure why I'm pursuing this discussion - I've gone from initial interest in the T to jaded disappointment. Seems like it's more style than substance, and all this nonsense just reinforces that feeling. Naturally others will disagree.

[jaapv]

 

Anyway, all of this still seems beyond extraordinary to me: suggestions to buy new phones or change data plans and so on, to support functionality that should be built into the camera from day one.

 

Anyway not sure why I'm pursuing this discussion - I've gone from initial interest in the T to jaded disappointment. Seems like it's more style than substance, and all this nonsense just reinforces that feeling. Naturally others will disagree.

I'm not sure why you are pursuing it either or even started it - the whole point is that one does NOT need to buy a new phone or change a data plan to use the camera's WiFi...

[jonoslack]

Anyway, all of this still seems beyond extraordinary to me: suggestions to buy new phones or change data plans and so on, to support functionality that should be built into the camera from day one.

.

 

But surely the point here is that for everyone who has the camera - it seems to work - it's only those who don't have the camera who can't make it work.

 

In my experience, normally things are Expected To Work (and don't) whereas in this case it seems that it is Expected Not To Work (but does).

 

What's more is that it's very easy to set up.

 

I think we have to wait and see when people who do have the camera can't connect to it, and under what circumstances - I'm not going back to Leica again about this until I know someone for whom it Actually Doesn't Work - and under what circumstances.

[plasticman]

I'm not sure why you are pursuing it either or even started it - the whole point is that one does NOT need to buy a new phone or change a data plan to use the camera's WiFi...

 

Well I'm pursuing it I guess because given a choice I still buy Leica cameras in preference to other manufacturers. And also because I disagree with some of the 'facts' that have been presented in this and other threads.

Otoh the conversation has been complicated by the constant edits made to the posts as the discussion has progressed.

[jaapv]

I'm not blaming you - the root cause is that camera companies -and Leica is not even the worst; try Canon for laughs- produce manuals that are incomplete/incomprehensible/weirdly translated.

Follow that up by reviewers who do not read the manual such as it is and don't take the trouble and time to think matters through - it would be a strange thing if Mr. Pogue of all people were unable to find a simple digital workaround- and the confusion in the Forums is preprogrammed.

 

Fortunately we were able to resolve this matter here

 

Edit :D : It is hard to disagree with facts.....

Edited May 27, 2014 by jaapv

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[mjh]

Why spam this useful thread with more ‘I want ad hoc mode (and I want it now)!’ chants? We all agree that support for ad hoc mode would be desirable and that Leica should do what they can to make it available post hoc. But a firmware upgrade takes time and until we (hopefully) get our way, it is good to know how we can achieve connectivity with a personal hotspot. Even when that won’t work for some, for many others it could be a viable workaround.