Malvolio Posted May 23, 2014 Share #41 Posted May 23, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Some vignetting (I'm not sure I agree that it is worse than the 28/2), very good resolution across the frame (particularly in the corners), doesn't like the viewfinder blockage. In summary, it will be too expensive, but it will also be a future classic. Cheers John Thanks John. I am curious to see what the RRP will be. I would imagine somewhere in the range of 7- 8,000. Whatever it will be, it will be a lot Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 23, 2014 Posted May 23, 2014 Hi Malvolio, Take a look here So there will be a 28mm Summilux. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
semi-ambivalent Posted May 23, 2014 Share #42 Posted May 23, 2014 ...but it will also be a future classic. Cheers John It's very difficult to make predictions, especially about the future. Or is Mr. Reid just re-hashing Nikon's tea leaves on this one? thanks! s-a Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted May 23, 2014 Share #43 Posted May 23, 2014 No idea. The 28 Summicron, though, is a classic, and the Summilux is a stop faster and has better performance (according to Mr Reid). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted May 23, 2014 Share #44 Posted May 23, 2014 No idea. The 28 Summicron, though, is a classic, and the Summilux is a stop faster and has better performance (according to Mr Reid). Careful there. As I read his review, not only did he make it very clear that the 28 Summicron sample he tested against the 28 Summilux prototype sample (!) was not a well performing sample but the test images shown from the defective Summicron clearly lacked the biting sharpness owners of these lenses know so well. Several time through his review (which has been updated just a bit ago adding CA performance samples), he clearly reminds the reader of the unusual lacking performance of the very Summicron sample he used for this test. One can see not only a lack of detail in the centre crops, that is NOT usual for the 28 Summicron, but strongly smeared corners, produced by the sample he used. This 28 Summicron does not perform to standard clearly. I am looking forward for a more meaningful rework of this review, once he might have the chance to have both a qualified 28 Summicron, as well as a production Summilux for verification. His comments regarding size and handling sound reasonable. This is likely not an everyday on your camera 28, rather a real low light lens, aimed at people for whom the 21 and 24mm Summilux lenses are too wide for their tasks. As long, as light is available the 28/2.8 and Summicron appear to be a lot more practical. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted May 23, 2014 Share #45 Posted May 23, 2014 I'll just say that I've always been doubtful that Leica would pursue a 28 Summilux, mostly for viewfinder-blockage reasons - and I have been proved both wrong and right. Congratulations to Leica, and to those Leica shooters who have always wanted one. It'll be interesting to see if Leica revives the external 28 finder (as they did briefly when the 28 Summicron was introduced) for those who don't use live view/EVF on a 240. At least this particular line of speculation has run its course, and we can now move on to the next one - 35 Noctilux? 75 Summilux APO-ASPH? 180 APO? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted May 23, 2014 Share #46 Posted May 23, 2014 Careful there. As I read his review, not only did he make it very clear that the 28 Summicron sample he tested against the 28 Summilux prototype sample (!) was not a well performing sample but the test images shown from the defective Summicron clearly lacked the biting sharpness owners of these lenses know so well. Several time through his review (which has been updated just a bit ago adding CA performance samples), he clearly reminds the reader of the unusual lacking performance of the very Summicron sample he used for this test. One can see not only a lack of detail in the centre crops, that is NOT usual for the 28 Summicron, but strongly smeared corners, produced by the sample he used. This 28 Summicron does not perform to standard clearly. I am looking forward for a more meaningful rework of this review, once he might have the chance to have both a qualified 28 Summicron, as well as a production Summilux for verification. His comments regarding size and handling sound reasonable. This is likely not an everyday on your camera 28, rather a real low light lens, aimed at people for whom the 21 and 24mm Summilux lenses are too wide for their tasks. As long, as light is available the 28/2.8 and Summicron appear to be a lot more practical. All true, but about as interesting as a bag of vegetables Each photographer has their sensitive points (shutter sound, viewfinder blockage, size, etc) - I'm not one of them. To be honest, when I read the review, I was really more interested in looking at how the lens performed - less interested in the Summicron as he said it was defective (a fairly pointless comparison, I thought if that was true), and I have one already. Sorry, I guess I'm saying that I've read a number of Sean's reviews - I'm sure he's a great guy, but I tend to skip over the green grocery and go straight to the conclusion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted May 23, 2014 Share #47 Posted May 23, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) I was very disappointed to see that review Sean Reid compared the 28 Summilux to a poor example of a 28 Summicron ASPH loaned from a friend. Why he didn't just ask Leica to supply a 28 Summicron for comparison is beyond me. This makes the comparison absolutely meaningless although the Summilux does perform well. I like fast lenses but the extra cost and size for one stop at 28mm is ludicrous. If you look at the cost of the other exotic wides this is to some extend offset by them being at least two stops faster than than the Elmar/Super-Elmar equivalents. Furthermore high ISO performance of digital Leicas is so much better than before, especially the Monochrom. This is a huge cost increase for one extra stop. I guess Leica want to push the boundaries but an upgraded-for-digital 28 Summicron ASPH would have made more sense even though I think the current Summicron is a fantastic lens. Maybe, like their other wide angle lenses, Leica will eventually drop the 28 Summmicron and just continue with the Summicron and Elmarit..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted May 23, 2014 Share #48 Posted May 23, 2014 What price have you heard? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted May 23, 2014 Share #49 Posted May 23, 2014 What price have you heard? None yet, but assuming it's in the range of the 21 and 24 Summilux (I suspect more) I'd not buy one for the benefit of one stop over the Summicron ASPH. When I bought my 21 Summilux it offered 2 to 4 stops advantage over the competition and that was well worthwhile for me - and still is. I should add that I don't mind using an EVF for a 21 or wider but I would not want to require one for 28-90mm lenses Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted May 23, 2014 Share #50 Posted May 23, 2014 It will be interesting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ansel_Adams Posted May 23, 2014 Share #51 Posted May 23, 2014 Next up a 35mm Noctilux ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 23, 2014 Share #52 Posted May 23, 2014 I was very disappointed to see that review Sean Reid compared the 28 Summilux to a poor example of a 28 Summicron ASPH loaned from a friend. Why he didn't just ask Leica to supply a 28 Summicron for comparison is beyond me. This makes the comparison absolutely meaningless although the Summilux does perform well... +1. I don't mind vegetables at all but this kind of comparison is not serious. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenicolas Posted May 23, 2014 Share #53 Posted May 23, 2014 Konica Dual 21-35 is affordable. Do you know where to find one? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted May 23, 2014 Share #54 Posted May 23, 2014 I assume Sean Reid was not prepared to do a Summilux vs Summicron comparison, rather had the chance to do some formal testing when he had the opportunity to try the 28 Summilux prototype for a given time. He states the circumstances how this little test came to be in the beginning. I am sure once there will be a chance in the future to compare both lenses under better conditions, he will do it. His former testing of the 28 Summicron should be sufficient to get an opinion about the two lenses in the meantime ;-) As the 28/2.8 and 28/2 do have older mechanical designs (especially lens hood attachment), sooner or later they will either be upgraded, exchanged for newer optical designs or dropped from the lineup. Which it will be can only be factless pondering Today. For regular critics of the ohh soo baaad light fall off of the 28 Summicron -a little reminder at how good the 28 Summicron actually is is demonstrated again by the comparison here. The light falloff of the current 28 Summicron ASPH is not particularly bad, it is just that it is a very compact, fast wide angle design. Sure you can give the lens a 58mm filter ring and much larger barrel and improve on the already good light falloff behaviour but at the cost of weight, size (and possible price as well, as more exotic glass is needed for the larger elements). For me the big news here was actually not the M-A, silver chrome MM or even the finally arrived 28 Summilux, but the confirmation that the 90/4 will stay in the lineup albeit with a less desirable Macro accessory for Mono and film body users. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted May 23, 2014 Share #55 Posted May 23, 2014 Do you know where to find one? Easy thing when shopping in Asian camera shops, difficult to manage though from Oslo :-( most local shops do sell just the bare lens - complete kits with finder and box are rather rare nowadays. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted May 23, 2014 Share #56 Posted May 23, 2014 Konica Dual 21-35 is affordable. ... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD I may have the opportunity of getting one locally. What can you tell me about this interesting lens? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted May 23, 2014 Share #57 Posted May 23, 2014 Not sure how I feel about the new lens. It's marvel and I'm glad that Leica has done it, for the brand and for what it is. I think, though, I would actually prefer to have seen a 24mm Summicron. Personally, I find the gap is uncomfortable between the uber priced and somewhat unnecessary (IMO) 24mm 1.4 and the slow but good 24mm 3.8. A summicron would be best for my purposes. I digress, That's a whole other story. I don't feel that wide open aesthetic translates particularly well on wide angle photography, I think the view find blockage on this sort of lens which is all about perspective and composition could be an issue for me and I'm certainly not about to move to the EVF in this iteration. Who know's, i'll certainly consider it at some point. I'm likely to change my mind entirely a hundred times before I actually did buy it. But I don't see why I would take this over the already exceptional 28 Summicron. I really don't think wide open and wide is such a great aesthetic combination. It is, of corse, more versatile though. Decisions, decisions. First world problems! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted May 23, 2014 Share #58 Posted May 23, 2014 Not sure how I feel about the new lens. It's marvel and I'm glad that Leica has done it, for the brand and for what it is. I think, though, I would actually prefer to have seen a 24mm Summicron. Personally, I find the gap is uncomfortable between the uber priced and somewhat unnecessary (IMO) 24mm 1.4 and the slow but good 24mm 3.8. A summicron would be best for my purposes. I digress, That's a whole other story. I don't feel that wide open aesthetic translates particularly well on wide angle photography, I think the view find blockage on this sort of lens which is all about perspective and composition could be an issue for me and I'm certainly not about to move to the EVF in this iteration. Who know's, i'll certainly consider it at some point. I'm likely to change my mind entirely a hundred times before I actually did buy it. But I don't see why I would take this over the already exceptional 28 Summicron. I really don't think wide open and wide is such a great aesthetic combination. It is, of corse, more versatile though. Decisions, decisions. First world problems! Again Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted May 23, 2014 Share #59 Posted May 23, 2014 After being badly bruised by the APO 50 debacle (and I am still to be convinced my sample is anything special at all), I will likely sit this one out. I have the 21, 24 and 35 Summiluxes and the 28 Summicron and Elmarit ASPH so while this lens may fill a hold in the Leica lens matrix, it's not clear to me it will do much in broadening my photographic horizons. I'll likely sit this one and am certainly not going to be banging on my dealer's door to get an early un-debugged sample.; I need to find out more about the macro adapter which seems attractive for M Typ 240 users, providing it can be used for lenses other than the 90mm Elmar. If not, I'll stick with my OUFRO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thompsonkirk Posted May 23, 2014 Share #60 Posted May 23, 2014 I'm with Paul on this – "I don't feel that wide open aesthetic translates particularly well on wide angle photography, I think the view find blockage on this sort of lens which is all about perspective and composition could be an issue for me…." I find it hard to see how the wide-open and wide-angle aesthetics merge very well. Street photography with 28mm is often done with zone focusing, relying on small-aperture DOF; and landscape photography asks for an unblocked VF and almost never calls for f1.4. But more important, I'm concerned about another turn away from utility, towards production of luxury or bragging goods. IMO Summiluxes were considerably more important when film speeds were low. Now, however, most camera systems incorporate sensors that function much better than Leica's in low light. Why buy faster lenses to compensate for an obsolescent sensor? The more sensible priority is a faster sensor that deals with low light without banding. I know that for some, bokeh is like garlic – you can't have too much of it – and so any larger aperture is 'better.' To my eyes, Summicron bokeh is quite nice enough, thank you – especially if I can forego additional viewfinder blockage. (And I doubt that many folks who buy the announced edition of 100 will know what bokeh is anyway.) Perhaps someone in a new Wetzlar building crunched the numbers and found that more people will pay for an I-can-afford-anything lens than for an improved sensor. But really don't see the need to go both ways, and IMO the latter is much more important to keep Leica thriving. Kirk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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