M9 Longevity

[Jarrito]

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I've been shooting Leica film cameras for many years now, and for the first time I am considering buying a digital M body. In the US, a used Leica M9 can be acquired for anywhere between $3,500 to $4,200 USD from retailers with 6 month warranties. My only hesitation, is the fear that M9's wont be able to repaired before I'm done with the camera. If I was to shell out that much cash for a digital body, I would hope to keep it for quite a while. If I was unfortunate enough to have to get it repaired down the line, does anyone know the possibility of Leica not being able to service M9 cameras in a couple years? Three to five years? Does anyone know if they're still repairing M8's?

 

Also, how much do sensor repairs or others cost? Would love to hear peoples experiences with Leica repairs, especially in the US. I feel like it's inevitable considering I'm considering buying a second hand digital camera.

Edited May 1, 2014 by Jarrito
Clarifaction

[harvey999999]

There are many stories on the net about the sensor of the M9 cracking. Leica will replace, but apparently supplies of that (CCD) sensor are limited so replacement is not easy. Personally, I'll take the chance because the images that come out of this camera are simply superb - like no other camera I've used.

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[Kena]

I think Leica in general stand behind their products even if they are out of warranty. Case in point, I purchased a m8.2 in 2009 and it worked flawlessly for 4 years and prob 40k clicks, and then developed the coffee stain issue. I was on the fence about even sending it in since it was not that big a deal to me but fearing that the LCD would completely fail I did send it to Leica NJ. It was well out of warranty and Lieca offered the upgrade to either the M-E or m240 at a very attractive price, I went with the M-E and I'm very pleased and see that lasting for sometime. They also did a similar upgrade for me on a point and shoot years ago. K

[Jarrito]

I think Leica in general stand behind their products even if they are out of warranty. Case in point, I purchased a m8.2 in 2009 and it worked flawlessly for 4 years and prob 40k clicks, and then developed the coffee stain issue. I was on the fence about even sending it in since it was not that big a deal to me but fearing that the LCD would completely fail I did send it to Leica NJ. It was well out of warranty and Lieca offered the upgrade to either the M-E or m240 at a very attractive price, I went with the M-E and I'm very pleased and see that lasting for sometime. They also did a similar upgrade for me on a point and shoot years ago. K

 

What's "an attractive price" if you don't mind me asking? hah

[Kena]

What's "an attractive price" if you don't mind me asking? hah

 

see this thread-http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/307673-coffee-stain-compensation.html

 

I ended getting it about 10% better than what they initially offered..... about 3K, plus no sales tax etc..

K

[250swb]

The M9 sensor is only 'limited' in supply in so far as it is manufactured in batches, obviously there can't be a continuous production line running. So if by a rare fluke you ever needed a new sensor you may have to wait if a new batch was being made, on the other hand you may not have to wait at all.

 

Don't be swayed by the few posts about M9 problems, but imagine all those people who aren't complaining or reporting problems.

 

Steve

[pgk]

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Firstly. you are effectively buying a camera and 'unlimited' amounts of film, so running costs are minimal. Depending on how much film you shoot you should be able to figure out an indication of the 'payback' period in terms of years versus film.

 

Secondly, there is no reason why the electronic WILL fail - I have decades old electronic devices which work fine still, though I've had immediate failures too. Worrying about it won't change reality and its much better and far less stressful to face a problem when and IF it arises rather than worry about its potentiality to happen. I've had an M8, an M8-2 and an M9, and the only warranty problem was a sensor remap on the M8.

 

If you can afford to do so, buy an M9 and enjoy using it - its a fabulous camera.

 

[And if you can, remember that the failures you read about on the web are more than likely from a vociferous minority of users;). Bad news travels fast.]

[earleygallery]

Firstly. you are effectively buying a camera and 'unlimited' amounts of film, so running costs are minimal. Depending on how much film you shoot you should be able to figure out an indication of the 'payback' period in terms of years versus film.

 

This is often said, but is not true.

 

With digital one needs storage. One needs regular software updates and most likely several programs which all come with a price.

 

It may well work out less expensive than film for a heavy user, but don't think that there are no other associated costs to digital photography than just a camera.

[earleygallery]

If I was unfortunate enough to have to get it repaired down the line, does anyone know the possibility of Leica not being able to service M9 cameras in a couple years? Three to five years? Does anyone know if they're still repairing M8's?

 

They can no longer repair/replace the LCD on the M8. If you break it or it fails, Leica will offer a trade in price against a new camera.

 

After the embarrassing failure to address their supply chain for the M8, Leica announced that they "would aim to support" future models for 10 years after production ceases, which is about as much as one can expect for a digital/electrical product.

 

Should you worry about it? I don't think so.

[pgk]

This is often said, but is not true.

 

With digital one needs storage. One needs regular software updates and most likely several programs which all come with a price.

 

It may well work out less expensive than film for a heavy user, but don't think that there are no other associated costs to digital photography than just a camera.

Storage is VERY cheap these days as is software (there's Gimp even) so its hardly a big factor relative to the cost of an M9 body (<10% perhaps) and I did add the caveat 'minimal'. Film needs storage for negatives/slides and interpretation (prints, albums, projector, enlarger, etc.) so I see software and hard drives as replacing these existing on-costs, and the digital camera as camera + film.

[}{B]

Now that Leica have introduced the model T with inter-changeable lenses I was wondering if this meant the end of the M-E which was touted as the introductory camera to the M range.

 

It may that the route to the M will be by way of the T not a lower priced version of the top M model. If so then the clock would be ticking on how long Leica would support the M9/M-E. I believe that their aim is for 10 years after production ceases.

[M9reno]

The truth is no one (maybe not even Leica) really knows how much longer the M9 will last as a camera supported by Leica with parts and labor. The same applies to the M, the MM, the ME.

 

Leica's statements about minimum 10 year support after model discontinuation should be taken with the same pinch of salt as their statements about a digital Leica as a "lifetime companion".

 

I would be really delighted to continue with my M9 supported by Leica until 2022, but I am frankly not holding my breath. When the time comes, I will take the financial hit. But that's just me: I personally enjoy the camera that much.

 

My advice is don't buy the camera if the unknown risk of obsolescence will outweigh your enjoyment of it.

Edited May 1, 2014 by M9reno

[wattsy]

Now that Leica have introduced the model T with inter-changeable lenses I was wondering if this meant the end of the M-E which was touted as the "introductory camera to the M range".

 

I doubt it – apart from the ability to mount the same M lenses, an M body and the T camera have virtually nothing in common. The latter is a "crop-frame" consumer product aimed directly at facebook types. It would make for a terrible introduction to the M system.

[Adrian Lord]

The game will have moved on immeasurably by the time M9 is obsolete to the point of being unsupportable. It's just not an issue in realty.

[earleygallery]

Leica's statements about minimum 10 year support after model discontinuation should be taken with the same pinch of salt as their statements about a digital Leica as a "lifetime companion".

 

It's not a minimum 10 years, it's their aim to provide spares for up to 10 years. Of course some spares may be available long after 10 years, and some might be unavailable within the 10 years.

[sanyasi]

I sold my M9 after 5 years of use--I now own an M and an MM. I received about $2,800 for my M9--I sold it through a dealer rather than direct because I didn't want to deal with e-bay buyers. To put it bluntly, if the sensor cracks a week after the dealer sells it to someone else, it isn't my problem and I don't have to deal with a legitimately angry buyer. That is worth the haircut to me.

 

The mistake I think most photographers make when they buy what they view as an expensive camera is to assume that this is the last camera they will every buy. This may have been somewhat true with film, but it isn't with digital. The way I looked at my M9 (and continue to look at my other cameras) is that I essentially paid a $1,000 a year to use the camera. That really isn't that much if you are serious about your photography and you take into account your other recurring costs like paper, ink, software, and all there other stuff.

 

Given the changes in technology and the nature of digital parts, I believe it is a mistake to assume you are going to get more than 5 to 8 years of use out of a camera--5 is probably the more realistic number. And with a used camera, 3 may be the better number. On the other hand, I have viewed the acquisition of the lenses as a much longer-term investment, particularly if they are optimized for digital, although people obviously have outstanding experiences with older Leica lenses.

 

I do note that I started with a pre-digital 90mm summicron manufactured in Canada. It has not held its used value, so I am even suspect about lenses from a resale standpoint, but I don't plan to resell the lenses.

 

The other thing to consider: If you do need to replace the sensor or a major component, are you going to want to put $1,000 or $1,500 (or whatever the amount) into a camera that is then worth $2,000 or $3,000, particularly if there are now used Ms on the market? The facts are simple: A new M will eventually come along. There will be a waiting list. People will complain, but in a year or so, the market will be flooded with old Ms as the new Ms arrive and the price of a used M will drop like a rock.

Edited May 1, 2014 by sanyasi

[Jean-Michel]

The price of new, advanced, technology is a shorter usability time. My M9, purchased in 2011, will become unusable much sooner than any of my M3, M4 or M6 that will work fine as long as film remains available -- you can develop the film in polluted harbour water, see: Environment : Looking for Inexpensive Photo Processing? Try Lake Ontario : The waterway is so full of polluting chemicals it actually can develop photographs. At least, that's what one local photographer says. And he has the black and whites to prove. It will be fairly easy to hear Gramophone records decades from now but not so CD's or iTunes tracks, but today I listen to CD's not gramophones. Similarly, I do not use my eminently usable film M's and only carry my M9. The sensor had to be replaced last year after it developed some spots, so now I expect that it will work flawlessly for a number of years yet. My other digital bodies were replaced quite quickly: I replaced my original Canon 5d for a 5d2 within one year; and replaced my spouse's Canon G10 with a Lumix GH2 also within 18 months. As my M9 ages I plan to purchase another body, probably the new M or its successor.

Jean-Michel

[sblutter]

I'm crazy about the M9 - so bought a new M-E and have put it aside (other than an occasional exercise to keep the lubes from separating)

 

For my style of shooting (M for decades) the printed output is terrific, especially with Photoshop CC. Camera shake fix has saved quite a few - an amazing achievement from Adobe .

 

+, Their new raw processor let's me push 5 stops plenty clean enough for a 24x36" and even larger prints. Software is ahead of the hardware, which I expect to continue - thus the camera will be fine until it dies.

 

On top of that, after so many yrs - have bins M stuff to use. Pre-war lenses to present, lots of Visoflex gear... 21mm > 200mm

 

And lets not forget form factor and familiarity - huge to me

[friedeye]

There are an awful lot of these cameras in the world, and I believe that Leica learned its parts lesson with the M8 LCD screen. The ME, and MM are basically the same camera as the M9, using the same sensor and LCD -- and they're still going to be made. So…

 

Have no fear. Parts aren't running out. An M9 is a terrific camera and will provide you with years of enjoyment (and repair, if needed) ahead.

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[M9reno]

It's not a minimum 10 years, it's their aim to provide spares for up to 10 years. Of course some spares may be available long after 10 years, and some might be unavailable within the 10 years.

 

James, I had a different understanding, though it's probably insignificant in practice: "for up to 10 years" is a maximum. I thought Daniels' 'promised' (however much one can hold a company to an internet post) a minimum. Anyway, I think we can take 10 years as a ballpark figure for how reliable Leica judges its supply of 3rd-party electronic parts to be, as well as how long it guesses most of us will remain interested in and happy with a particular digital model.