Leica lens for WA human subject isolation?

[Winedemonium]

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I hesitated before posting this, because I know it is a well trodden path. There's the equipment debate, and there's the focal length debate.

 

Here is my (very first world!) situation:

I have bought and really admire the 3.4/21 SEM. I have and like- to an extent- the 2.8/25 Biogon, and I have, and am not super keen on the 2.8/28 Elmarit ASPH.

 

I am thinking of replacing the 2.8/28 Elmarit (which I like for sharpness, and its compact take-when-lazy dimensions).

 

What I lack is wide and fast. The 21 SEM is awesome for environmental pictures - portrait, architectural, and very crisp for everything anyway.

 

What I am missing is something that gives the sort of isolation/separation of human subjects from broad contextual backgrounds, to give a wide, but perhaps similar feeling to some of my mid and longer focal length lenses - 1.4/35 FLE, 1.4/50 LUX ASPH, 1.4/75 LUX (I admire the different signatures of these three also).

 

Candidates:

1.4/21

1.4/24

2/28

 

The rendering of the first two seems quite different to the Cron (I also like the look of the 28 Cron when people are in the frame).

 

21 I fear makes human subjects very difficult to frame without severely distorting their features (though reasonably centred subjects can look fine).

 

I suppose my fear with the 24 Lux is -

1. Will I regret not getting the 21 for similar money (on the one hand)?

2. Would I not find the 28 more practical?

 

My leaning toward the 24 Lux is that there is more creative control on DOF than the 2/28, and the wider perspective emphasises this without quite getting into the level of perspective distortion we might see with 21s. It is, perhaps the "limit" for these two for this purpose.

 

I suppose if I really think about it I can find the answer myself. These lens choices come down to very personal things, and all the lenses mentioned are superlative and will have their champions I know.

 

But this forum is a wealth of experience, and I wonder if there are those amongst you who have worked through some of these choices and settled on something fast and wide for human subjects. I'd be keen to hear about your experience and preference.

 

Many thanks

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[rirakuma]

For subject isolation I would think the the lux would be the best of the bunch but have you considered the 21mm 2.8 biogon? I have the distagon variant and it is extremely good for human portraits. Great distortion control and closer focusing is a huge plus. This is an example from the lens, I would expect the biogon to perform similar with maybe only a few slight technical disadvantage.

 

[smkoush]

I find the 28mm Summicron a wonderful and very versatile lens. It offers very elegant rendering, and it is very small and easy to use. I never used the 21/24 summiluxes, but the reason I opted for the 28 was for its size and versatility (no need for external finder/no extreme distortion at the edges).

 

Savvas

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[Winedemonium]

Hi rirakuma - that's a lovely portrait, and nice subject and background separation, achieved nicely by distance.

 

I tried out some lenses in a shop this evening. The one that stood out for me for rendering turned out to be a 2.8/24 Elmarit ASPH. Not exactly fast at all, but I liked the way it drew.

 

So I don't know where I am with this, and will therefore just wait a bit I think, try a few things out before deciding.

 

Thanks for the Zeiss suggestion. I used to have the 4.5/21 C-Biogon. Great lens, but tricky on the M. I never tried the 2.8/21 version.

[cam2000]

I had the Asph Summilux 24 mm F1.4 traded for a Asp Summicron F2... It works great for portrait with little distortion and no need for an additional viewfinder. The 28 mm is lot less weight in your camera bag compare to the 21 or 24 Asp Summilux

 

Here is a shot taken at F2 with the 28 mm

 

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[lenicolas]

The 1,4/24 is a fantastic lens on slrs, specifically for isolating a human subject from a wide background, but I fear one would be limited by the 70cm minimum focus distance of the Leica in this situation.

For the same reason, the 1,4/21 struck as more interesting on paper than in real life (people look really tiny in the frame at 70cm).

 

I got a 2,8/25 from Zeiss, for the slightly longer fl and the closer focus distance. But if you already have that lens and it doesn't work for you, I guess next up is the 2/28...

 

sent from a phone with auto-correct.

[RSo]

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What about VC 21mm f1.8?

Note: As per title, it is about Leica lens, but since you have mentioned ZM lens I assume that you are open to other third party lens

[Guest Marc G.]

I love the 28/2 ASPH for that purpose.

[TheGodParticle/Hari]

I don't know your definition of isolation ... Do you mean the "3d pop" or do you maybe prefer smooth subject separation where the in-focus to out of focus transition is very gradual?

 

Here are some samples shot with the M9 and 28 cron, see if you like what this lens can do ->

 

 

 

 

Not a human subject but a close second

 

[TheGodParticle/Hari]

And this one shot wide open ->

 

[DigitalHeMan]

For subject isolation I would think the the lux would be the best of the bunch but have you considered the 21mm 2.8 biogon? I have the distagon variant and it is extremely good for human portraits. Great distortion control and closer focusing is a huge plus. This is an example from the lens, I would expect the biogon to perform similar with maybe only a few slight technical disadvantage.

 

 

 

Great portrait! I have my eye on the Biogon and this sort of shot certainly pushes me in that direction....

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[algrove]

I hesitated before posting this, because I know it is a well trodden path. There's the equipment debate, and there's the focal length debate.

 

Here is my (very first world!) situation:

I have bought and really admire the 3.4/21 SEM. I have and like- to an extent- the 2.8/25 Biogon, and I have, and am not super keen on the 2.8/28 Elmarit ASPH.

 

I am thinking of replacing the 2.8/28 Elmarit (which I like for sharpness, and its compact take-when-lazy dimensions).

 

What I lack is wide and fast. The 21 SEM is awesome for environmental pictures - portrait, architectural, and very crisp for everything anyway.

 

What I am missing is something that gives the sort of isolation/separation of human subjects from broad contextual backgrounds, to give a wide, but perhaps similar feeling to some of my mid and longer focal length lenses - 1.4/35 FLE, 1.4/50 LUX ASPH, 1.4/75 LUX (I admire the different signatures of these three also).

 

Candidates:

1.4/21

1.4/24

2/28

 

The rendering of the first two seems quite different to the Cron (I also like the look of the 28 Cron when people are in the frame).

 

21 I fear makes human subjects very difficult to frame without severely distorting their features (though reasonably centred subjects can look fine).

 

I suppose my fear with the 24 Lux is -

1. Will I regret not getting the 21 for similar money (on the one hand)?

2. Would I not find the 28 more practical?

 

My leaning toward the 24 Lux is that there is more creative control on DOF than the 2/28, and the wider perspective emphasises this without quite getting into the level of perspective distortion we might see with 21s. It is, perhaps the "limit" for these two for this purpose.

 

I suppose if I really think about it I can find the answer myself. These lens choices come down to very personal things, and all the lenses mentioned are superlative and will have their champions I know.

 

But this forum is a wealth of experience, and I wonder if there are those amongst you who have worked through some of these choices and settled on something fast and wide for human subjects. I'd be keen to hear about your experience and preference.

 

Many thanks

 

Just curious why you are not super keen on the 28/2.8?

[gpwhite]

My leaning toward the 24 Lux is that there is more creative control on DOF than the 2/28, and the wider perspective emphasises this without quite getting into the level of perspective distortion we might see with 21s. It is, perhaps the "limit" for these two for this purpose.

 

I suppose if I really think about it I can find the answer myself. These lens choices come down to very personal things, and all the lenses mentioned are superlative and will have their champions I know.

 

But this forum is a wealth of experience, and I wonder if there are those amongst you who have worked through some of these choices and settled on something fast and wide for human subjects. I'd be keen to hear about your experience and preference.

 

Many thanks

 

I have traveled the same path! I settled on the Elmarit-M 24mm f/2.8 ASPH... just an exquisite lens because faces are rendered without distortion in central 66% of frame. Shooting very close wide open, there is no focus shift and colors are really smooth.

 

I wanted to include all of the lemons here, so the shot is not nearly at minimum focus where isolation is maximum.

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[Winedemonium]

Thanks all for your replies, and in particular to rirakuma, smkoush, TheGodParticle, and gpwhite for posting images that display well the qualities I'm looking.

 

BTW, TheGodParticle, I think your hilltop group portrait is wonderful. Such a nice emotion captured there.

 

Of course this subject separation effect is helped when the human subject is close to the camera and at least some distance from the background, as DOF in WA is deeper. As lenicolas pointed out, SLRs have an advantage here in being able to focus closer than Leica Ms (though we can then run into unnatural perspective distortion).

 

I am going to begin with a 2/28 Cron I think.

 

gpwhite - I like this portrait, and your advice on the 2.8/24 Elmarit. By coincidence I tried this lens out in a shop last night and liked the rendering. Being a nudge slower, it may be that I find a use for this lens in a different environment to the one I am targeting in my current search. Let's see. But the 2.8/24 has peaked my interest, for sure.

 

algrove - I'm not sure. The images I got back from it seemed to lack both the special rendering I have seen in some other lenses, and the pop I have seen in lenses like my 35 FLE. But I'm not knocking this lens - it is amazingly tiny, quick and easy to focus, and very sharp. It has, and deserves its fans, I know. At the moment I am exploring what will fit me, and I am grateful to forum participants here, and others who have been helpful, in the journey of working that out. Is this a favourite lens of yours?

 

Thanks again to all those who have helped me out in this thread.

[DigitalHeMan]

Thanks all for your replies, and in particular to rirakuma, smkoush, TheGodParticle, and gpwhite for posting images that display well the qualities I'm looking.

 

BTW, TheGodParticle, I think your hilltop group portrait is wonderful. Such a nice emotion captured there.

 

Of course this subject separation effect is helped when the human subject is close to the camera and at least some distance from the background, as DOF in WA is deeper. As lenicolas pointed out, SLRs have an advantage here in being able to focus closer than Leica Ms (though we can then run into unnatural perspective distortion).

 

I am going to begin with a 2/28 Cron I think.

 

gpwhite - I like this portrait, and your advice on the 2.8/24 Elmarit. By coincidence I tried this lens out in a shop last night and liked the rendering. Being a nudge slower, it may be that I find a use for this lens in a different environment to the one I am targeting in my current search. Let's see. But the 2.8/24 has peaked my interest, for sure.

 

algrove - I'm not sure. The images I got back from it seemed to lack both the special rendering I have seen in some other lenses, and the pop I have seen in lenses like my 35 FLE. But I'm not knocking this lens - it is amazingly tiny, quick and easy to focus, and very sharp. It has, and deserves its fans, I know. At the moment I am exploring what will fit me, and I am grateful to forum participants here, and others who have been helpful, in the journey of working that out. Is this a favourite lens of yours?

 

Thanks again to all those who have helped me out in this thread.

 

Good choice. You can get good subject isolation with the 28 Cron when you also want to include the environment...

 

[IWC Doppel]

I suspect of you want to get close to your subject then the 21/24 might be a little too distorting, I don't have the 21 or 24 Summiluxes but have the Elmarit-M's. I also think the 24 Elmait-M is a fantastic lens but I'd start with the 28 Summicron if it was me. The daylight shot was at F5.6, which still shows some background softness at that distance and the night shot a good example of close focus at F2 wide open (Sorry couldn't quickly find a better human subject for this !)

 

The 28 Summicron is sharp enough IMO to isolate through it's extraordinary resolution even closed down a fair bit with a longer DOF

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[Paul J]

 

I have traveled the same path! I settled on the Elmarit-M 24mm f/2.8 ASPH... just an exquisite lens because faces are rendered without distortion in central 66% of frame. Shooting very close wide open, there is no focus shift and colors are really smooth.

 

I wanted to include all of the lemons here, so the shot is not nearly at minimum focus where isolation is maximum.

 

Low depth of field is relied on far to much for composition. This picture with the lemons (and the rest of its geometry for that matter) is a nice example of why compositional lines are really the only thing that "isolates" a subject. Low depth of field helps communicate your focal point but you can't rely on it to isolate a subject. At times it even distracts. It's negative space, compositional leading lines, highlights, shadows and colour that primarily lead an eye around an image and even when something is completely out of focus it will still have a bearing on the image because that is what the eye will travel around first. It can create more of an issue as it blocks up and abstracts things creating more negative space and sometimes even the difference between sharp and unsharp is a distraction to the eye.

 

Subject isolation comes from changing angle, changing background/location to something with geometric flow. It really should be the thing a we look for in the very first stages if seeing a shot, considering the whole canvas.

 

A wide angle is both really good for composition and also relatively more hard. Of course, depth can create a satisfactory "isolation" but really, who really wants that?

[Photographs by Peter]

I've owned both the 28mm Summicron and 24mm Summilux, and can highly recommend both for their delicate OOF rendering.

 

Unfortunately, the 28 gave me the "red edge" issue, so I didn't own it for long... I might try another copy one day.

 

Here is an image taken with the 24, wide open @ f/1.4:

 

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It's a great lens.

 

You can see more 24/1.4 images on my site:

 

Leica 24mm Summilux ASPH f/1.4 | Photographs by Peter

 

—Peter.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Winedemonium]

Low depth of field is relied on far to much for composition....

 

Subject isolation comes from changing angle, changing background/location to something with geometric flow. It really should be the thing a we look for in the very first stages if seeing a shot, considering the whole canvas.

 

A wide angle is both really good for composition and also relatively more hard. Of course, depth can create a satisfactory "isolation" but really, who really wants that?

 

I agree with your first point. It can be a lazy approach, and also an unattractive one if all that bokeh is gratuitous or worse, distracting.

 

I agree with your second point here. This focuses the viewer on the subject, while the background provides context.

 

But I don't agree with the notion that selective focus / subject isolation through shallow depth of field requires the photographer to forget good compositional and perspective discipline. These tools are not mutually exclusive.

 

The problem with slow wide angle lenses employed in spaces with little depth between foreground, subject and background is that there is little room to manoeuvre with selective focus. Conversely fast wide angle lenses provide the option to use selective focus creatively in such situations.

[Winedemonium]

 

You can see more 24/1.4 images on my site:

 

Leica 24mm Summilux ASPH f/1.4 | Photographs by Peter

 

—Peter.

 

Thanks Peter. I have been a fan of your photography site for a while now. Your photographs are good at storytelling.

 

"Taxi Man" is a great use of perspective and leading lines. "Wave crashing" is fantastic.