JeTexas Posted May 19, 2014 Share #21 Posted May 19, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm going to guess that Blurb is purely a retail front that uses whatever regional printer they could get the best contract with. I know that here in the southern US, Western Lithograph, or at least their parent company, actually does the printing and binding of most of the books ordered through various web sites. If you know how to use InDesign, QuarkXpress. or even Illustrator, you can lay out your own book, contact the sales rep for your local printing house, and just skip the retail fronts like Blurb altogether. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 19, 2014 Posted May 19, 2014 Hi JeTexas, Take a look here Recommendation of a professional online photo book other than Blurb.com. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
A miller Posted May 19, 2014 Author Share #22 Posted May 19, 2014 I'm going to guess that Blurb is purely a retail front that uses whatever regional printer they could get the best contract with. I know that here in the southern US, Western Lithograph, or at least their parent company, actually does the printing and binding of most of the books ordered through various web sites. If you know how to use InDesign, QuarkXpress. or even Illustrator, you can lay out your own book, contact the sales rep for your local printing house, and just skip the retail fronts like Blurb altogether. Great suggestion. This may be particularly valuable for high volume prints. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted May 19, 2014 Share #23 Posted May 19, 2014 But will they print just one copy like Blurb will? 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeTexas Posted May 21, 2014 Share #24 Posted May 21, 2014 The minimum run I've done for work was 25. Since they print the small runs on digital presses, I suppose they would do just one, but you're probably going to be stuck with a $40 setup fee on top of the cost of your book. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted May 21, 2014 Author Share #25 Posted May 21, 2014 The minimum run I've done for work was 25. Since they print the small runs on digital presses, I suppose they would do just one, but you're probably going to be stuck with a $40 setup fee on top of the cost of your book. Many thanks. Can you give an idea of your per book cost and how the quality compares to Blurb's best paper? 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeTexas Posted May 21, 2014 Share #26 Posted May 21, 2014 We did a run of 1,000 9.5"x9.5" 50-page photo books with hardcovers and aqueous coatings about two years ago, but I can't find the invoice. Here's the most recent book quote I've gotten, but this one isn't for a photo book. With larger pages and a hardcover, you'd have to add a little to the cost, but printing in black & white instead of 4 color would cut the cost. Description: Handbook 60 pages + Covers Finished Size = 4 x 7 Cover paper = 100# Gloss Cover Ink = 4/4 + laminate on both sides 60 pages = 100# Gloss Text Ink = 4/4 + Gloss AQ Finishing = Trim and Black Plastic Coil We understand that you will be providing: Files via FTP Quantity 250 300 400 500 Price $2623 $2712 $2845 $2982 I can't comment on how the quality compares to Blurb since I've never used Blurb. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted May 21, 2014 Author Share #27 Posted May 21, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) wow, that's really cheap. Definately worth looking into from a quality perspective to see if it could be a solution for me. Many thanks for taking the time to post this. Best, Adam 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
euston Posted May 21, 2014 Share #28 Posted May 21, 2014 . . . the quality pales in comparison to the results I get from the silver gelatin prints using Ilford baryta paper that I have been using lately from Whitewall. Certainly, there shouldn't be an apples to apples comparison here. That's to be expected, isn't it? I’m glad you said that you're not comparing like with like. There is also a huge cost difference. You would only get 3½ 20 x 30cm baryta prints from Whitewall for the price of the LUF Book 2014 containing 107 photos. I believe my copy was printed in the Netherlands. The quality is high with not a trace of the red and green hues in the B&W that spoiled your copy. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted May 21, 2014 Author Share #29 Posted May 21, 2014 That's to be expected, isn't it? I’m glad you said that you're not comparing like with like. There is also a huge cost difference. You would only get 3½ 20 x 30cm baryta prints from Whitewall for the price of the LUF Book 2014 containing 107 photos. I believe my copy was printed in the Netherlands. The quality is high with not a trace of the red and green hues in the B&W that spoiled your copy. 100% to be expected as I explicity noted. But I do fully expect not to have any color hues in my B&W photos, particularly for a $100 book!!! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted May 21, 2014 Share #30 Posted May 21, 2014 (edited) It works out at less than $1 per page... We did explore short run prints of the first edition of the book, but finding someone to pony-up the upfront cost, store (say) 250 books, ship them out etc, was beyond what was sensible. Edited May 21, 2014 by andybarton 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted May 22, 2014 Share #31 Posted May 22, 2014 (edited) -some B&W pages has subtle blotches of color (due to the CMYK ink that is used) -the colors weren't spot on, which is due to the lack of color profiles for LR due to LR's inability to accept CMYK profiles (it only accepts only adobe profiles.) -There is some noise in the B&W pictures that detracts fromt he quality. This is curious because I did my own Blurb book for fun and Blurb don't want CMYK but sRGB. The book was all duotone/B&W and there was no colour tint to the images other than the one I wanted. The neutral images were neutral. Are you entirely sure you've not been working at cross purposes? Steve Edited May 22, 2014 by 250swb 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted May 22, 2014 Author Share #32 Posted May 22, 2014 This is curious because I did my own Blurb book for fun and Blurb don't want CMYK but sRGB. The book was all duotone/B&W and there was no colour tint to the images other than the one I wanted. The neutral images were neutral. Steve Very interesting. I guess this proves the notion that the Blurb has different printing facilities; it would appear that they also have different printing workflows. I'm going to take this up with Blurb. Was your book only in B&W? That conceivably could be the distinction; that they use duotone for only B&W books... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted May 22, 2014 Share #33 Posted May 22, 2014 It was mostly duotone and some neutral B&W, but the neutral still has to have a colour profile so everything was sent to them in sRGB. I can't really imagine Blurb having different workflows around the world where one country uses CMYK and one sRGB as the forum/advice would be utterly chaotic given you don't know who is answering and from where. Steve 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted May 22, 2014 Author Share #34 Posted May 22, 2014 It was mostly duotone and some neutral B&W, but the neutral still has to have a colour profile so everything was sent to them in sRGB. I can't really imagine Blurb having different workflows around the world where one country uses CMYK and one sRGB as the forum/advice would be utterly chaotic given you don't know who is answering and from where. Steve Don't know what to tell ya, they told me more than once in emails that they use CMYK and that some level of color hues in B&W photos goes with the territory. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted May 22, 2014 Author Share #35 Posted May 22, 2014 Here is the text of an email I rec'd from Blurb customer support : ******************************************************** Ashley C. ( Blurb Support) </SPAN>Apr 29 16:02 Hello Adam, As I've explained previously, all of our books print with 4 color inks. This means that even your black and white images are printing with a mix of cyan, magenta, yellow and black. The prints from these books are not like photographic prints in that they are made using color inks. Depending on the lighting of where you view the book, the images may or may not appear to have a cast on them. We often produce black and white books that look very neutral. I just want you to understand that your images are indeed being printed with color ink and a slight hue to a book like this is within tolerance for this printing method. Best regards, Ashley Blurb Customer Support 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted May 22, 2014 Share #36 Posted May 22, 2014 This from Blurb regarding their process….although fairly generic. Jeff 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted May 22, 2014 Share #37 Posted May 22, 2014 And this is their advice for B&W when using BookSmart How to Prepare Black and White Images for Blurb BookSmart® | Blurb Books 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted May 22, 2014 Author Share #38 Posted May 22, 2014 Many thanks, Andy. I have seen this before and found it not all that illuminating in my particular situation as I use LR to format and upload my photos. I believe that all of my files are kept in sRGB format in LR. I do note, though, that even on Blurb's site( to which you have linked) there is an acknowledgement that some level of color hues cannot be avoided - no matter what. As they say, often this may go unnoticed, unless, of course you hold one of your actual prints using an Ilford B&W paper and a lightjet printer next to the image in the Blurb book ----------> 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted May 22, 2014 Share #39 Posted May 22, 2014 (edited) Don't know what to tell ya, they told me more than once in emails that they use CMYK and that some level of color hues in B&W photos goes with the territory. I guess this is the problem. Yes they use CMYK printing, but because very few people will be able to work in CMYK on their monitor or in Photoshop Blurb ask for the files in sRGB, so you can see exactly what the image looks like before sending it. They have perhaps answered your question too literally. I think the link Jeff posted is another literal explanation, not a 'what to do' guide. As for tints being possible, this is probably advice for people who don't use calibrated monitors and not down to any intrinsic inaccuracy of the process. Steve Edited May 22, 2014 by 250swb 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeTexas Posted May 27, 2014 Share #40 Posted May 27, 2014 My printer rep was here this morning, so I had a chat with him about this. He says digital presses can only print CMYK, and it's very hard to balance the colors to get clean black & white. Offset printers can print in black only and give you a much nicer photo, BUT you need the economy of scale to make it cost effective. He says they usually never run orders of less than 500 on the offset presses. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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