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StephenPatterson

No focus peaking???

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Leica just include the features that are needed to take quality images as easily and simply as possible.

 

 

You could interpret this sentence to apply to almost anything. Wouldn't a fully automatic camera with no controls be the ultimate example? There are countless easy to use cameras with few features than the T. And how do you define "quality images" and under what circumstances is the camera expected to deliver them?

 

Of course a camera doesn't actually need an AE or AF lock button to take quality images, but I think they make it easier to get what you want, not harder. Same with having magnified view available anywhere in the frame and other features such as a tilting LCD. Why does the EVF on the T tilt? You don't really need that to take quality images since most cameras get by without it. The same with a built in flash.

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I think everyone needs to understand the basic Leica philosophy .....

 

Most other camera makers add as many features as they can fit into the camera in effort to stand out from the competition.......

 

Leica just include the features that are needed to take quality images as easily and simply as possible.

 

 

I'm fully converted. I have even turned off the useless focus peaking feature on my M240 and I have been cropping the images to an APS-C equivalent in order to fully enjoy the crop sensor advantages. Now suddenly I have better tonal gradations and shallower DOF, and even high iso noise has improved. I can't wait for the next firmware upgrade that will make these changes permanent

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I'm fully converted. I have even turned off the useless focus peaking feature on my M240 and I have been cropping the images to an APS-C equivalent in order to fully enjoy the crop sensor advantages. Now suddenly I have better tonal gradations and shallower DOF, and even high iso noise has improved. I can't wait for the next firmware upgrade that will make these changes permanent

 

Funny coincidence that - I've now fully turned off the focus peaking on my M240 too..... but I think you'll find that cropping your images doesn't have much difference on the DOF or the tonal gradations

 

We are told that the new firmware is imminent, and I'm sure you'll find all your wishes answered

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You could interpret this sentence to apply to almost anything. Wouldn't a fully automatic camera with no controls be the ultimate example? There are countless easy to use cameras with few features than the T. And how do you define "quality images" and under what circumstances is the camera expected to deliver them?

 

Of course a camera doesn't actually need an AE or AF lock button to take quality images, but I think they make it easier to get what you want, not harder. Same with having magnified view available anywhere in the frame and other features such as a tilting LCD. Why does the EVF on the T tilt? You don't really need that to take quality images since most cameras get by without it. The same with a built in flash.

 

It's just a case of where you draw the line.

I actually agree with all the features you mention (except I'd prefer not to have a built in flash) - but the logical corollary is a Fuji X-T1 or an Olympus E-M1 which has a million features I don't want. (great cameras though they both clearly are)

 

slightly off kilter - has anyone else found that tilting EVFs are a complete pain in the neck - they always seem too loose, so they tilt when you don't want them to . . . and straighten up when you do.

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slightly off kilter - has anyone else found that tilting EVFs are a complete pain in the neck - they always seem too loose, so they tilt when you don't want them to . . . and straighten up when you do.

Can't say I have add I love the fact that the EVF on my (Olympus version) M tilts as I use it a lot in the upright position when shooting landscape.

as to focus peaking it doesn't work well anyway on lenses wider than 35 especially when they are slow with so much inherent DOF so even if it was available probably wouldn't work well on the current lenses

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It's just a case of where you draw the line.

I actually agree with all the features you mention (except I'd prefer not to have a built in flash) - but the logical corollary is a Fuji X-T1 or an Olympus E-M1 which has a million features I don't want. (great cameras though they both clearly are)

 

slightly off kilter - has anyone else found that tilting EVFs are a complete pain in the neck - they always seem too loose, so they tilt when you don't want them to . . . and straighten up when you do.

 

Thee are a complete pain-until one puts on a long heavy lens and puts the combo on a beanbag. Then they are a blessing

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but the logical corollary is a Fuji X-T1 or an Olympus E-M1 which has a million features I don't want. (great cameras though they both clearly are)

 

 

Well most photographers seem to want those features or the cameras wouldn't sell. Hopefully the people who do buy the T understand what they are giving up to get the so called simplicity that is referred to.

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Well most photographers seem to want those features or the cameras wouldn't sell. Hopefully the people who do buy the T understand what they are giving up to get the so called simplicity that is referred to.

 

Well, it's an interesting point - forget about the T for a minute, because it's inevitably rather contentious and confuses the fundamental issue.

 

As for the cameras not selling - well, you don't currently have the option to buy a quality camera which DOESNT have feature bloat - so it's hard to draw sales conclusions - until now there hasn't been a choice.

 

I think the whole thing is rather like the Apple/Windows conundrum. I need to use both, in fact, I earn my living writing Windows software on Apple computers.

 

In Windows, there are usually a number of different ways of achieving the same end, which can often be convenient, but the multitude of options seem to change with each new iteration. On the Mac there is usually one way to do something, and generally speaking it doesn't change from version to version of the operating system. It seems to me that when Microsoft are planning Windows X, then they think "how can we do this better" , whereas Apple thing "we will do this the same way". Both approaches have their advantages and disadvantages.

 

Back to cameras - you were saying that it was nice to have AE/AF lock buttons, magnification anywhere in the frame etc. and I do agree that it's nice to have it . . . .but on the other hand I really don't have a difficulty in getting the exposure right, or the focus with my Leica M - one can think of ways to improve it of course.

 

Let's think of the Video button on the M - (I bring this up because it's been discussed elsewhere and I've thought about it a lot). I don't shoot video . . so wouldn't it be great if this could be customised to do Exposure Lock / Zoom in - whatever you fancy. Of course it would . . . .except that it's one step down the route to a Windows camera - with sliding functionality and an inevitable requirement to learn what happens next.

 

In the final analysis, I think it should be possible to switch it off - just that. One could have a huge discussion about customisable buttons - I once had a radio in a car where there were about 20 buttons -all of which were customisable, the result was that one needed a degree in it to use it . . . so we didn't. I also think one should be able to switch off Live view . . just that.

 

There is a fundamental issue in providing features based on user requests - if you go down that route, in the end, you must provide everything. Apple have always completely ignored this, and most of our phones (whether they are Apple or not) have honoured this principle (hard buttons just gone).

 

I don't think this is a simple subject (far from it), but I do think that if you decide you are going to limit options, then you should start pretty soon, otherwise they grow like topsy.

 

So, coming back to the T - there are lots of things it can't do, but taking a decent photograph in pretty much any situation is NOT one of the things it can't do.

 

All the best

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All I can say is that I have been a commercial photographer for almost 40 years and have been interested in photography since I was a kid... I have used every kind of camera, especially totally manual laborious view cameras, and was not necessarily attracted to many whiz-bang features in any of them upon purchase.

 

However those film cameras and especially view cameras never changed that much. But now that I have been using digital for quite a few years, every time I got a new feature I learned it and looked for ways to use it. Now maybe that is just me. I hadn't asked for many of those features but appreciate them being in my cameras. Heck I can use a camera in manual mode and get good exposures, so I surely don't "need" an exposure lock button with auto exposure. But I use it all of the time on the Nex 6.

 

The number of buttons, dials, and menus are not the least bit daunting to me and I have seem improvements in the interfaces over the years. While I shoot a lot with my Samsung Galaxy SIII, despite being easy to use in general, is terrible to use in particular. So while a touch screen interface may enhance a more traditional arrangement of controls, I do not see it as a replacement... especially if I have to give up ANY feature and quick direct access to whatever I want to do.

Edited by AlanG

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Sorry - I will shut up from now onwards (sorry Alan)

 

No - you can't simply click here and there on the screen to choose the enlargement area like you can on your Olympus µ43

 

Jono, are you saying the T's live view is like the M-240? Meaning, that when using the live view and/or the EVF that we can only magnify into the center area? We can't navigate around the magnified area in Live View and check corners or do off-center compositions?

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The number of buttons, dials, and menus are not the least bit daunting to me and I have seem improvements in the interfaces over the years. While I shoot a lot with my Samsung Galaxy SIII, despite being easy to use in general, is terrible to use in particular. So while a touch screen interface may enhance a more traditional arrangement of controls, I do not see it as a replacement... especially if I have to give up ANY feature and quick direct access to whatever I want to do.

 

So, you're a a Windows kind of a guy. It takes all types, but I don't think there is a RIGHT answer

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All I can say is that I have been a commercial photographer for almost 40 years and have been interested in photography since I was a kid... I have used every kind of camera, especially totally manual laborious view cameras, and was not necessarily attracted to many whiz-bang features in any of them upon purchase.

 

I suspect that the T wasn't designed for you. But that doesn't mean it's bad.

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So, you're a a Windows kind of a guy. It takes all types, but I don't think there is a RIGHT answer

 

What the heck does that mean?

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I suspect that the T wasn't designed for you. But that doesn't mean it's bad.

 

I didn't say it was bad but since when is Leica about dumbing down cameras?

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Since when is reducing to the essentials the same as dumbing down?

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Since when is reducing to the essentials the same as dumbing down?

 

Always. This is a camera for someone who really doesn't want to learn how to use a camera. A listed selling point is you can use it if you forget to bring a memory card. They probably kept focus peaking off as that feature might confuse too many potential users. How many are going to use manual focus anyway? This approach and the camera is ok with me and it may find a decent market. From the perspective of a knowledgeable photographer, I just see it as a very uninteresting camera.

Edited by AlanG

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You must be younger than I am - I can easily forget things like that:o

I understand they left focus peaking off because they thought it was not good enough on APS-C. A notion I can sympathize with.

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You must be younger than I am - I can easily forget things like that:o

I understand they left focus peaking off because they thought it was not good enough on APS-C. A notion I can sympathize with.

 

Have you tried focus peaking on an X-Pro 1? Thats an APS camera and focus peaking works really well.

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From the perspective of a knowledgeable photographer, I just see it as a very uninteresting camera.

 

knowledgeable?

 

Luckily the market has all options for you. Ugly, acne infected (on rear), plastic Japan camera or sleek, Bauhaus stylish, sturdy ones.

 

It is not about knowledge, it is the taste, man.

 

On other note, Apple actually copied a lot of Braun product line and now people believe that it represents a certain group of people.

 

I think form and function is important for all kinds of people. Adding new 10 buttons on already 100-buttons layout doesn't make you more knowledgeable for certain.

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Knowledgable or not I think it's really sad that Leica have to had to depart from making proper cameras and have put their efforts into making consumerist toys like this hideous so called camera!!

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