Looks nice but.....

[pico]

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When Leica tries to sell me on the idea that I should buy a camera because someone spent 45 minutes hand polishing it I get completely turned off and feel they are insulting my intelligence.

 

Consider that they are not talking to you!

[Paul J]

Billing for equipment 'hire' for stuff that you own or adding a "digital capture fee" (to accomplish the same thing) is increasingly being resisted by many traditional higher-end clients and is pretty much unheard of once you start dealing with small to medium sized businesses or consumers. In truth, they have a point as it would likely raise an eyebrow or two if the plumber you hire wanted to charge separate line items for "van hire", "wrench hire" and "creative/knowledge fee". Adding a "hire" or digital capture fee is in any case just an accounting sleight of hand – it is just part of turnover and has no bearing on the issue of the real cost of capital equipment.

 

This counter argument has always been and yet still it is my business model and remains unquestioned. It's also the business model of vast majority of my competition and is pretty much the standard in every big city through out the world I have worked in.

 

Digital capture fee is more prevalent by the day and it's usually a standard fee to accommodate computer equipment, digital operator and processing time fees. 90% of clients approach me with a digital and equipment budget in mind. I also charge for preproduction, concepting and post production of any kind.

 

A plumber should have a separate line for van hire in my opinion, they should be factoring in the cost of their tools and it should be separate to what is billed as their time. I have found that clients appreciate transparency more than anything because few people understand what goes into a plumbing business. An awful lot of people don't know what goes into running a successful photography business either. If you explain why you charge what you do, people can get an understanding and of corse everything is negotiable.

 

Then there is the other side. If a plumber is not charging me according, if they are too cheap, there is no way on earth I will use them because I know they are cutting corners, I know they will be overbooked to try and make ends meet. They say they will be there at 9am on monday morning and then turn up at 3pm with you waiting all day because they had to squeeze anther job in to make things work. In photography land that means missed deadlines and problems on the job. Gear failures and shoot cancelations.

 

Calling a sleight of hand is ridiculous, IMO. It can only be perceived as that by anyone who know's nothing about the industry and I avoid working for those clients altogether.

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[ruiespanhol]

Hello everybody

 

The new Leica T looks very promissing as result of german design and craftmanship but in my opinion not much better then others Mfg offer on markert today like Sony or Leica Partner Panasonic.

At this moment I Love my Lumix GX1 and better I can use my R lenses on it and both build and image quality are outstanding só for me It makes no sense to buy a Leica T.

However I hope this camera sells well and catch news costumers to the brand.

 

Best

[AlanG]

Consider that they are not talking to you!

 

Well I feel sorry for anyone who buys a camera because it is hand polished. Maybe they can add some jewels to it and charge a lot more. BTW it obviously is not very hard to mill aluminum and polish it. I have polishing and buffing wheels and it is fast and easy with them ... first I hand sand the scratches out.

 

45 minutes of this kind of hand labor only costs how much anyway?

Edited April 27, 2014 by AlanG

[wattsy]

Calling a sleight of hand is ridiculous,

 

You misunderstand me – I mean it is sleight of hand in the sense that it is still just a part of turnover when it comes to doing the accounts. Charging a digital capture fee, etc. doesn't make any difference to whether businesses end up paying for the capital equipment that they acquire, which was the point (the "myth") that I was addressing. I'm not suggesting for a second that there is anything wrong or dodgy about invoicing on an itemised basis – on the contrary, I fully agree with you re: the benefits for all parties in doing it that way (and you are probably right that if all businesses were fully transparent about costs there might be less grumbling about somebody's charge "per hour" or whatever). My point (not that well made) is that the "film production" (if I may put it that way) model of charging for a job by breaking everything up into talent, creative fee, equipment, etc. isn't that well received by smaller businesses (often less experienced with dealing with creative suppliers) or consumers. For example, I don't (often) do weddings or "social" but I know the reaction I would get if, as part of the bill, I included a hire fee for my cameras (even if the final total was the same as a simple fee which incorporates those costs). It's a different game altogether outside the "big city".

Edited April 27, 2014 by wattsy

[pico]

Well I feel sorry for anyone who buys a camera because it is hand polished. Maybe they can add some jewels to it and charge a lot more.

 

Now ya did it! Gave 'em another idea.

 

Just my personal feeling - I don't like to use polished aluminum things unless, just maybe, they are anodized or have a durable clear-coat. I predict there will be custom finishing, patterns, engraving, and all those unremarkable things nutz go for.

 

Sometimes Leicas become like dressing dolls for adults.

[rosuna]

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I think this camera will seduce anyone who put his/her hands on it.

 

Leica T users will find hard to come back to old interfaces...

[lct]

That's what my daughter said about smartphones but my iPhone stays in its drawer. Too old to chimp i guess...

[tundraline]

I have not seen one of these beasts in the flesh, but after reading a few reviews and looking at its specifications, it looks like the T will find a home with many Leica aficianados, old and new. Perhaps it might even find use as a back-up body to an M, as well as primary use as a small camera. The APS sensor does not faze me. My Leica X1 (which also has an APS sensor and an outstanding lens) has yielded many great photos. If the optics of T lenses are good (and it looks like they are), obtaining excellent photos with this camera will be no problem. I also like the T's small size and focus on a simple user interface. I got rid of my Sony A7R and its Zeiss 35mm and 55mm lenses recently because I found the user interface horrible; it took great photos, the lenses were superb, and it had a 35 MP sensor. For me, anyway, all that excellence was undone by the Sony video-game user interface. No one has yet done a better job with camera user interfaces than Leica. All cameras have shortcomings, compromises and flaws. The T will have them too. But my guess is that Leica is on track to sell a lot of these cameras. Now if they would just fix the auto ISO firmware problem with the M240 . . . .

[jonoslack]

I agree that 'first stage thinking' is a big part of making images. That certain 'instinct' that a good photographer possesses can be critical. It's also what can often help define one photographer over another if you gave them both identical cameras and made them create images in identical environments at the same time. However, I would argue those 'first stage' workers (e.g., HCB; Frank, etc.) already have their 'second stage' or more deliberate scenario in their head. It's already in place. It's also why their work is identifiable and unique to them. It's their own world view.

 

I'm sorry - you misunderstand the significance of First Stage vs Second Stage thinking. The old scenario is that first stage thinking is 'instinct' - and that's what you're talking about. Of course, you can't do the research with photographers, but it's been done with chess masters (together with brain scans). Most chess masters will know in an instant their next move - even if they have half an hour to think about it - however, in a very high percentage of cases that first instinctive move is correct - and if they change their minds, then they are usually wrong.

 

But the real point is physiological, and it's that that 'subconscious' first thought contains thousands of times more synaptic movements than the subsequent 'conscious' thinking - literally thousands of times - and it refers back to all one's knowledge -whether that be to previous chess games or to previous photographs you've seen - books you've read - The second stage thinking is a superficial little twitch of your conscious brain, the first stage (instinctive) thinking is an almost instant subconscious resolution of all your knowledge.

 

.. . . . . . the decisive moment in fact

[pico]

[...snip important stuff...]But the real point is physiological, and it's that that 'subconscious' first thought contains thousands of times more synaptic movements than the subsequent 'conscious' thinking...

 

 

As an affirmation of your posit, may we consider 'tacit' knowledge, or 'body knowledge', each of which are not available to the language part of our brain.

 

In my case the effort is to meld an entirely personal desire to make an image evince an internal, ineffable aesthetic. It is how I work. Whether I succeed or not is a social perceptual measure. I do not care because I am only another picture maker.

 

The human visual system is tightly coupled to recall and conceptualizing, but it does not communicate well with the rest of the brain, in particular the language centers. The areas are not integrated, and are more important than the popular myth of Left/Right brain bullshit.

 

We are abstractly and unconsciously aware of that and use language and Art as an attempt to express the difference.

 

Lecture mode off.

 

 

Sent from my Etcha-sketch.

Edited April 27, 2014 by pico

[leicatraveller]

Hi There

 

 

Mind you - although you'll lose some resolution against the competitors, I really don't think you lose much in terms of IQ (or anything unless we're talking A7r).

 

 

 

At the very least it's a brave move, and if you succumb to the wants I don't think you'll be disappointed by the IQ

 

hello Jono, IQ will be enough good but say me that my head is hard like a cocunut i don't understand why a photographer must buy this T over the Sony Ar (as you said A7r is an exeption, but there is...it exist....)

 

regarding touch screen interface i see only disadvantage, i can understand new generation are growing with touch screen, but untill now from a cognitive point of view (and operational) buttons are much more faster and practical then touch screen

i will do an example that maybe its not related to this, but since i can write on a normal keyboard with 10 fingers without even looking at the keyboard i can up to 70-80 full words each minute...i i need 4-5 time more time with an ipad, so i see only problems

[erg]

Wait for the Hermes edition. That one will make better pictures.

[CalArts 99]

I'm sorry - you misunderstand the significance of First Stage vs Second Stage thinking. The old scenario is that first stage thinking is 'instinct' - and that's what you're talking about. Of course, you can't do the research with photographers, but it's been done with chess masters (together with brain scans). Most chess masters will know in an instant their next move - even if they have half an hour to think about it - however, in a very high percentage of cases that first instinctive move is correct - and if they change their minds, then they are usually wrong.

 

But the real point is physiological, and it's that that 'subconscious' first thought contains thousands of times more synaptic movements than the subsequent 'conscious' thinking - literally thousands of times - and it refers back to all one's knowledge -whether that be to previous chess games or to previous photographs you've seen - books you've read - The second stage thinking is a superficial little twitch of your conscious brain, the first stage (instinctive) thinking is an almost instant subconscious resolution of all your knowledge.

 

.. . . . . . the decisive moment in fact

 

Well, as I warned you, "Anyway, I don't profess to know anything....."

 

But I would still like to know how the T camera specifically fits into all of this. How this particular camera is going to "push me into new directions" and "which none of the others do." And where does the "decisive moment" fit with this particular device and over all other devices?

 

I'm sincere about this and with no sarcasm intended whatsoever. I think it's a perfectly fine camera with some good lenses and more to come. I'm sure it's got a great tactile feel to it and I certainly do appreciate good industrial design (as I've already mentioned many times here.) The iPhone experience I am already familiar with and feel that it's smart that Leica employed it in the T (after all, millions of people are already familiar with that paradigm as iPhone camera users.) And I can appreciate the files that it will produce (I use the X2 on occasion for certain applications; and it also has the same sensor and a good lens.) And sure, Leica products carry hefty price tags. But we all know that going in so there's no surprise there.

 

But I would really like to know this "new directions" sort of phenomenon that this particular camera will bring to me that no other camera is capable of doing. I want to know how a single device can inform decades worth of my understanding of the world, and how that will appear in my interpretation of that world that I write about through my imagery.

 

Is it the size? The feel? The fact that I'm using the LCD screen? Is it the iPhone experience? As an aside my iPhone as a camera hasn't "pushed me into new directions." It's simply facilitated my carrying around a small image making device; i.e., I don't see the world any differently with an iPhone.

 

The images I produce from either a Nikon F3 or a Leica M6 are pretty much the same. I use one over the other for a variety of reasons, but none are used because they are "changing my direction" in the way I interpret the world. They both help facilitate that act of interpretation (and in different ways) but they really have no bearing on anything else.

 

Again, I think the T is a nice camera and I have no issues with it. Except that I won't be buying it. And that's simply because I don't have any use for it. I truly don't need it. Granted it may facilitate things for me in certain applications but I honestly don't believe that it's going to "push me into new directions" and "which none of the others do." But please do tell me how this particular device will do that. If it can somehow inform my world view and the way I've been interpreting the world by "pushing me" into a "new direction" that I never knew existed, then I'm all ears.

[lecycliste]

Leica T autofocus is contrast detection only. This method can be much slower than phase detection. For a premium camera, the T should have had phase detection, like the Fuji X-E2 and X-T1.

 

Integrated EVF is also MIA.

 

Reviews say the T is good, but I'd like to try one to see. From the spec sheet, I don't see the worth / ROI of a $1900 EVF camera with an add-on $600 EVF, even if it is machined from a single block of aluminum and assembled in Wetzlar.

 

 

 

 

Mark Bohrer, MSEE

documentary narration & scoring

Edited April 27, 2014 by lecycliste

[pico]

[...] How this particular camera is going to "push me into new directions" [...]

 

It ain't talking to you. If this particular Leica promotion disturbs you, I gotta wonder how you get through any day's adverts.

.

[BJDrew]

Leica T autofocus is contrast detection only. This method can be much slower than phase detection. For a premium camera, the T should have had phase detection, like the Fuji X-E2 and X-T1.

 

Integrated EVF is also MIA.

 

Reviews say the T is good, but I'd like to try one to see. From the spec sheet, I don't see the worth / ROI of a $1900 EVF camera with an add-on $600 EVF, even if it is machined from a single block of aluminum and assembled in Wetzlar.

 

 

 

 

Mark Bohrer, MSEE

documentary narration & scoring

 

I've got to tell you - don't fall for the "phase detection is always superior" trap. Those FUJI cameras are really a crapshoot when it comes to autofocus. You can get very tired, very fast of the "no focus" red square. And the manual focus is a little bit jittery.

 

The X Vario, for example, is a little slow and deliberate in focusing, but it's confident and nails focus properly almost all the time. Let's give this T a chance in this department.

[MarkP]

Wait for the Hermes edition. That one will make better pictures.

 

 

Think of the time they will save in polishing the aluminium where the Hermes logo wrap will be glued on - might suit Alan .

[CalArts 99]

It ain't talking to you. If this particular Leica promotion disturbs you, I gotta wonder how you get through any day's adverts.

.

 

And I'm not talking to you

 

Try reading it in context. I was having a discussion with Jono. Nothing "disturbs" me, it's a dialogue. To put it in your terms, I "gotta wonder how you get through" the day marginalizing others.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[pico]

And I'm not talking to you

 

Try reading it in context. I was having a discussion with Jono. Nothing "disturbs" me, it's a dialogue. To put it in your terms, I "gotta wonder how you get through" the day marginalizing others.

 

Then take it off-line where the context might be relevant.

.