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T pricing

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I think that the T will find its buyers as there are enough people around who buy the most expensive product if they have the choice

 

However, other than in case of the M9 or the M240 the T for me lacks the USP. If you want a relatively compact full format camera with compact lenses and love wide angle with high quality it is not so easy to get around the M (which is the reason I got my M9; the A7 might have a compact body but on the wide angle lens sector we will have to wait and see). For the T there are a lot of very good alternatives, so unless there is a stellar quality advantage in the results you can achieve with the T system as compared to other mirrorless systems (where Sony offers full format for the same price and also Panasonic or Olympus have very appealing products for far less) to justify the comparably stellar price it will be nothing for me. But I will be happy if there are a lot of buyers to enable Leica to develop new products that are more appealing to me

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I looked at the accessory list and do not see any kind of IR or wired remote release. I don't believe there is an IR sensor for that nor a place for a cable to connect. Does anyone know if it can be triggered via the USB port or is wifi the only remote triggering option?

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Alan please remember it's a product for wealthy 'consumers' who probably won't ever use it in anything other than full auto mode, and most will only buy the pack zoom lens. Features for photographers are unimportant. Different colour options are.

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Alan please remember it's a product for wealthy 'consumers' who probably won't ever use it in anything other than full auto mode, and most will only buy the pack zoom lens. Features for photographers are unimportant. Different colour options are.

 

I suddenly feel very shallow – I'll go and take some pictures until the feeling passes.

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Alan please remember it's a product for wealthy 'consumers' who probably won't ever use it in anything other than full auto mode, and most will only buy the pack zoom lens. Features for photographers are unimportant. Different colour options are.

 

Yes I am beginning to see this and it is sad to me that a lot of what I consider basic features are left out. It also lacks an HDMI port and I am not sure if the USB port can carry video. I am sure it can take nice photos but we all understand that it is not meant to be a very versatile tool for its intended market. Whereas many of the APS and M43rds are.

 

Even on the the lowly discontinued Nex 3N they added on a port for a remote control cable (compared to the earlier Nex 3 models.) I am now considering this cheap camera for mounting in a quadcopter as it will be easy to trigger over a radio channel. Whereas previously the option with a Nex was to tape on an IR emitter over its IR port... which was still a workable solution. But that forced one to buy the more expensive Nex 5 over the Nex 3 which had no IR port either. My point being that as time went on, Sony added more features to the entry level models which means I can fly a lighter cheaper camera now. Remote control of the motorized zoom is also possible now via the same cable and the camera with 16-50 motorized IS lens was selling as low as $300 on Amazon. ($400 now I think.)

 

The 3N has the same sensor and similar technology as the T but of course not as good a kit lens. Although how much the lens quality will matter in typical use shooting stopped down is probably not really such a big factor for average users of either camera. The need for corner sharpness is overrated in many photos and I have found that the perspective in a lot of shots looks better without correcting for the barrel distortion when shooting at the wider settings with this lens. So I think it is funny when some people get all excited about well corrected lenses unless they are architectural photographers or have other critical needs... barrel distortion often improves images of w/a shots where people are near the edges and corners of a photo. Besides that and other lens issues are easily correctable if you want and anyone doing critical work knows how to do it.

 

I know I know, some people just want to buy "the best" and don't want to be bothered by details such as features or price or applicability to their needs. It is very shiny and pretty I have to admit. And the $79 neck strap and camera covers sure are colorful... in a good way if that is what you want in a camera. (It has been a long time since I got excited about owning any camera.)

 

Michael Reichmann's indicates what he sees as the intended audience and his review of the camera has a long list of "missing" features.

 

"At my New York meeting with Leica I said at one point that just based on looks and "feel" alone this is the type of objet desiré that a wealthy traveler might see in an airport duty free boutique window and buy on impulse. Have you ever noticed how many expensive watches are found in those stores? Yup, the Leica T will appeal to the same demographic that buys a $5,000 watch at a duty free store while traveling abroad, when they might not do so when at home. It's just the psychology of money and travel, and Leica is likely to benefit from it with the T. I feel that Leica has hit this particular nail right on the head. "

 

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/leica_t_system_impressions_and_use.shtml

Edited by AlanG

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I looked at the accessory list and do not see any kind of IR or wired remote release. I don't believe there is an IR sensor for that nor a place for a cable to connect. Does anyone know if it can be triggered via the USB port or is wifi the only remote triggering option?

 

Alan,

 

You are correct. No wired or IR remote, but the Leica T App for iPhone works great as a remote trigger over Wi-Fi.

 

I rarely use remote release cables on ANY system. Usually, I find it more convenient to just use the 2sec self timer. That's what I did for my long exposures with the T and it worked fine, except for the fact that the camera resets the self timer back to off after each activation. Hope this changes in the final firmware.

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That's what I did for my long exposures with the T and it worked fine, except for the fact that the camera resets the self timer back to off after each activation. Hope this changes in the final firmware.

 

Don't hold your breath ..... this mad idea is still present on the XV after nearly a year .....

 

Someone at Leica clearly thinks that no one ever takes more than one shot with a self timer ....

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The body is €1500, compared to the €300-450 a Sony a5000 would cost without kit lens. Even with 45 minutes of manual, German labour for polishing the body, plus corporate overheads plus retail margin, that is a lot. After all, it is only semi-skilled labour, perhaps by external and temporary contract staff at minimal wage. The T is often compared with the iPhone, but a 5s 16GB is less than twice as expensive as a Samsung S4 16GB. Like Apple products versus the rest of the competition, the T is more refined in every aspect and detail. But these additional efforts are divided into much smaller production numbers, even compared to Apple. Like Apple Leica purchases key components from niche suppliers or from market-leading competitors who either cannot or do not want to sell these components at lowest price. Unlike Apple Leica assembles in Portugal and Germany rather than employs Taiwanese sub-contractors with factories in mainland China.

 

The prices of T lenses are in Summarit M territory, the budget, but full-frame and mechanically range-finder coupled lenses for M mount. With all due respect I believe the T lenses with internal, electronic focusing through the lens cost less to make. But neither Panasonic nor Leica themselves want to cannibalize their business with Leica-branded µ4/3 lenses and have likely agreed to maintain a comfortable price differential with any future, proprietary Leica lenses (and bodies).

 

There is an adapter to make use of Leica M lenses (€300), but manual focus on the rear LCD is difficult, making the electronic viewfinder a mandatory accessory (€450). For those with an inventory of Leica M lenses, the €2250 T kit is of limited value. They trade the unique rangefinder experience for an LCD or EVF without focus peaking. The sensor may deliver outstanding image quality, but crops the angle of view. For a 35mm focal length equivalent they still need the 23mm T lens (€1600), bringing total cost to used M9 territory. Suffice to say a >€2000 24mm f3.8 would be slow and extravagant on the T. Vice versa it would be mad to sell vintage M lenses to finance brand new T gear with supersonic depreciation.

 

The presumable target group does not research the internet for specs or best buys, but associates Leica with best quality and user experience. The target group may include “retired” Leica enthusiasts who now want to carry and fiddle less. In a way the T resembles the Leica SL and R from past decades. More convenient and versatile than the M, more refined and more joy to use than the competition. But not fundamentally different. And, ultimately, only the M survived. Back in 1954 the Leica III was behind competition (Contax, Nikon, Canon), the M3 was modestly ahead. After the competitors abandoned the rangefinder, the Leica M became an unique anachronism with exclusive advantages and loyal users who accept it’s quirks.

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M8 prices will surely drop … in a few weeks time they could be just a few £hundred if dealers want to sell PX'd M8 cameras.

 

dunk

 

They already have dropped; Leica offered me a miserable £800 (~ 1000€) for my M8 (7400 actuations) with a coffee stain.

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They already have dropped; Leica offered me a miserable £800 (~ 1000€) for my M8 (7400 actuations) with a coffee stain.

 

thats pretty good actually

you are lucky

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Alan,

 

You are correct. No wired or IR remote, but the Leica T App for iPhone works great as a remote trigger over Wi-Fi.

 

I rarely use remote release cables on ANY system.

Usually, I find it more convenient to just use the 2sec self timer. That's what I did for my long exposures with the T and it worked fine, except for the fact that the camera resets the self timer back to off after each activation. Hope this changes in the final firmware.

 

Yes, and excuses for lack of basic features along with explaining their work arounds are what is required for justification of ownership.

 

I don't want to use a 2 second timer even if it does reset itself. What if I am trying to catch an expression or the peak of action? And even for static subjects I wouldn't want to risk changing precise framing by doing this.

 

I use a remote release almost every time any camera is on a tripod. I consider this and numerous other things that have been left out on the T to be basic features and feel that Leica is short changing the customer compared to Sony... in the guise that "less is more." Do you think having an extra port under that flap would confuse the Leica customers so much? It certainly would not affect the design. I guess it should be more important to me how the neck strap attaches.

 

The Nex 6 also has connection to a remote App on my phone... but typically that is not how I want to work... it takes several steps to get the wifi connection and the software running, then it is awkward to use a camera while also holding on to a phone... when you simply need a physical button to push. And when the battery in my phone dies, then what?

 

BTW, there is DSLR remote software that connects Canon cameras to an Android phone app via USB and this works really well as it loads the app and is ready to go instantly as soon as you connect the cable.

 

OK, compared to the Nex 6, the T has a nicer finish, presumably better kit lens (although better lenses are available for the Nex,) simpler controls (good or bad depending on your view) and is sold as a status symbol. Is there a single feature besides GPS (EVF needed,) on the T that is not on the Nex?

 

For the price of $525 ($74 less than the Visoflex alone) the Nex 6 gives you a built in EVF of similar if not the same quality, a tilting LCD, several additional connectors, the ability to use a flash while using the EVF, all kinds of customization of the display and shooting methods, a 16-50 more compact stabilized lens, (thus a much more compact package especially compared to a T with the EVF,) better video features, electronic level, sweep panorama, several special modes that let you minimize noise or blur in low light, focus peaking, magnified focus anywhere on the chip, Digital Magnified Focus can come on automatically when moving the focus ring on AF lenses, a similar sensor that also has PDAF to help reduce hunting, and probably more if I bothered to do some research.

 

If Sony can do all of this for $525 how can Leica justify charging $599 for the EVF alone? Yes I know they don't have the economy of scale and it is not even hand polished. They made sure this time that you couldn't put the less expensive Olympus VF4 on it. Yes the Leica one adds GPS.

 

I just saw this on the Leica site, "Forgot to bring along a memory card? No problem – just use the built-in 16 GB memory of the Leica T." So a selling point is aiming it to the kind of photographer who forgets to put a memory card in the camera before going out with it.

Edited by AlanG

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