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Anyone figure out why the 240 freezes up?


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I had some of my freezes while focussing with EVF/LV in Autozoom-Mode. Leica wrote me today that they could reproduce the failure and that it is a software problem and will be fixed with the next FW-Update. Pressing LV, Play, Iso, Menue or Set would help in that special case.

Do you really want to high-jack this thread and rehash all of the serious problems with the faulty A7R? Hello guest! Please register or sign in to view the hidden content. Hallo Gast! Du willst die Bilder sehen? Einfach registrieren oder anmelden! This is a Leica forum and I for one am very interested in whether or not this problem is mostly solved, as I actually own the M (and like a lot of folks here returned their A7r).

Jaap   It is not "if there is a problem". There IS a problem. One should be able to use this M240 with or without EVF, with or without LV, with or without C of S mode or any other way it was designed to be used, without lockups.

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Due to the sense of 'deja vu' I haven't bothered to plod through these posts till now .......

 

...... but I am struck by the consistent complaints of the 'missed shots' in the same sentence as 'lock up' ........

 

In 18 months and 15000 images I 'think' I can recall it happening twice ...... and I say 'think' because it made minimal impact ....... and I am certain it ocurred when I was frantically fiddling with settings, snapping and chimping trying to catch a fleeting subject...... and I was not unduly surprised I had scrambled the cameras brains.

 

Whilst I am not defending Leica I think lots of these events are due to pushing the cameras limited processing/multithreading power beyond it's capabilities by rapid usage ...... you don't 'miss' lots of shots with a 'lock up' under leisurely photo taking .......

 

All Leica's digital offerings (T included) are underpowered on the processing and data throughput front.... and I think all these issues emanate from that.

 

As I have said elsewhere in the forum, unless Leica can match Sony's Bionx or Nikon's Exspeed speed and low power consumption in the next M iteration then no amount of extra features (higher iso, image stabilisation, auto sensor cleaning, AF lens support etc) will keep current users onboard .....

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Due to the sense of 'deja vu' I haven't bothered to plod through these posts till now .......

 

...... but I am struck by the consistent complaints of the 'missed shots' in the same sentence as 'lock up' ........

 

In 18 months and 15000 images I 'think' I can recall it happening twice ...... and I say 'think' because it made minimal impact ....... and I am certain it ocurred when I was frantically fiddling with settings, snapping and chimping trying to catch a fleeting subject...... and I was not unduly surprised I had scrambled the cameras brains.

 

Whilst I am not defending Leica I think lots of these events are due to pushing the cameras limited processing/multithreading power beyond it's capabilities by rapid usage ...... you don't 'miss' lots of shots with a 'lock up' under leisurely photo taking .......

 

All Leica's digital offerings (T included) are underpowered on the processing and data throughput front.... and I think all these issues emanate from that.

 

As I have said elsewhere in the forum, unless Leica can match Sony's Bionx or Nikon's Exspeed speed and low power consumption in the next M iteration then no amount of extra features (higher iso, image stabilisation, AF etc) will keep current users onboard .....

 

Your experience with this issue has not been mine. I have two M240s, and they have both locked up at inopportune times, resulting in missed shots. The annnoyance factor has been high, as these incidents have usually required me first to remove a quick release plate, and second to remove the bottom plate; these steps are required because of Leica's ingenious M240 design making the battery and SD card inaccessible unless the whole bottom plate is removed. Whatever is going on with the M240 lock-up problem, it should not be happening. I suspect as yet undiscovered firmware bugs are to blame. It is a problem that has been around since the M240 was first introduced. My second M240 was purchased only a few months ago, and suffers from the same lock-up problems as my first M240. There are too many reports of this problem from M240 users for Leica to ignore. Hopefully they are working on discovering the source of the problem and fixing it. If they do not do so, then people like me can choose from a whole world of cameras and camera systems manufactured by other companies that do not suffer from such basic "amateur hour" problems. Leica glass is legendary. Too bad the electronic end of things seems to have so many problems.

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Your experience with this issue has not been mine. I have two M240s, and they have both locked up at inopportune times, resulting in missed shots. The annnoyance factor has been high, as these incidents have usually required me first to remove a quick release plate, and second to remove the bottom plate; these steps are required because of Leica's ingenious M240 design making the battery and SD card inaccessible unless the whole bottom plate is removed. Whatever is going on with the M240 lock-up problem, it should not be happening. I suspect as yet undiscovered firmware bugs are to blame. It is a problem that has been around since the M240 was first introduced. My second M240 was purchased only a few months ago, and suffers from the same lock-up problems as my first M240. There are too many reports of this problem from M240 users for Leica to ignore. Hopefully they are working on discovering the source of the problem and fixing it. If they do not do so, then people like me can choose from a whole world of cameras and camera systems manufactured by other companies that do not suffer from such basic "amateur hour" problems. Leica glass is legendary. Too bad the electronic end of things seems to have so many problems.

 

Your comments sound hauntingly familiar except that I am now on my 8th M240. This last one I will not open until after a very sandy & windy trip starting any day. However, since I often tripod and have the same issues as you with removing everything on the bottom of the camera just to aleviate the lockup, it has gotten to the point of me just being pissed off with Leica.

 

I even had an L bracket machined so I now do not have to remove it from the MF grip. I just twist the MF grip off camera base with thumb wheel, remove camera body from MF grip and L bracket while they are still attached to tripod, remove battery, reinsert or change battery and off I go again until it happens again in another 20-30-40-50-or 60 minutes. ( I use the L bracket with L on the right side of camera so RF viewing is pleasant experience with L bracket.)

 

No FW .15 did not stop my lockups, but I do believe (or want to believe) that they are less frequent since the latest FW update.

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Last time mine locked up (just before 2.0.1.5) - camera turned on, took 3 pictures over 2-3 minute period. Had live view on for one. When to take a fourth about a minute later with LV - and it locked up. This was indoors at ~76º F. No fast button pushing... matter of fact, no button pushing.

 

Before that, about a month prior, shooting at night in 85º F temps using LV. LV had been enabled for ~1 minute. That was enough for heat build-up. Locked up. Had to do the battery dance and it was fine. No more live view for the rest of evening.

 

All my lock ups are directly associated with using LV or the EVF. EVF seems more problematic. Total lock-up count has been ~4 times. I've had two M-240's. Can't say one was any more or any less problematic.

 

Since 2.0.1.5 no lockups, but I also have not done any shooting with the EVF / LV outside other than a random 10-15 seconds here and there. I've shot indoors using Live View for a minute here and there, and thus without issue. So, I'd say things are better, but not willing to make the leap of faith that things are "solved".

 

Got a new M-P last week, but it's vertical RF adjustment was off, so it's on its way to New Jersey. I'm hoping there have been some production line improvements and the M-P is more heat tolerant. But, since it's the same sensor, that wish is probably more fantasy than reality.

 

If I do not use live view / EVF, then things are fine. I have not had a lock-up of any type when using the M-240 as a RF camera.

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This ons is starting to give me a statistical headache. There are clearly a number of affected cameras out there divided in the EVF related group and general lockup group And a few that experience both.

Yet there are tens of thousands of these cameras in use that seem not to lock up routinely.

With some users having the same problem over and over on replacement cameras I fail to find an explanation.

I mean the odds against getting eight locking up cameras in a row are staggering to the point where it must be apparent in all cameras.

Yet where are the complainants?

Edited by jaapv
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This would indicate that there is no sample variation involved (in the camera, that is).

 

I wonder if all reported camera stalls are really that. I myself experienced a similar phenomenon several times when the camera did not wake up from touching the shutter release. It turned out that the EVF had gone to sleep independently of the camera, and that turning it off and on did the trick. If I observed that correctly, it's still far from optimal but not the fundamental denial of service we're discussing.

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This would indicate that there is no sample variation involved (in the camera, that is).

 

I wonder if all reported camera stalls are really that. I myself experienced a similar phenomenon several times when the camera did not wake up from touching the shutter release. It turned out that the EVF had gone to sleep independently of the camera, and that turning it off and on did the trick. If I observed that correctly, it's still far from optimal but not the fundamental denial of service we're discussing.

 

Thanks Philipp. I would classify your example under use pattern.

Not many folks pay as much attention to detail as you do.

So it may look the same to some.

 

I observed a problem on my M9 where under certain circumstances when touching the shutter release the camera seemed dead.

However, switching the camera off and on brought it back to life. Very similar and, of course, no EVF involved.

So, I took a note of which of my actions had caused that problem to avoid it in the future.

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Last time mine locked up (just before 2.0.1.5) - camera turned on, took 3 pictures over 2-3 minute period. Had live view on for one. When to take a fourth about a minute later with LV - and it locked up. This was indoors at ~76º F. No fast button pushing... matter of fact, no button pushing.

 

Before that, about a month prior, shooting at night in 85º F temps using LV. LV had been enabled for ~1 minute. That was enough for heat build-up. Locked up. Had to do the battery dance and it was fine. No more live view for the rest of evening.

 

All my lock ups are directly associated with using LV or the EVF. EVF seems more problematic. Total lock-up count has been ~4 times. I've had two M-240's. Can't say one was any more or any less problematic.

 

Since 2.0.1.5 no lockups, but I also have not done any shooting with the EVF / LV outside other than a random 10-15 seconds here and there. I've shot indoors using Live View for a minute here and there, and thus without issue. So, I'd say things are better, but not willing to make the leap of faith that things are "solved".

 

Got a new M-P last week, but it's vertical RF adjustment was off, so it's on its way to New Jersey. I'm hoping there have been some production line improvements and the M-P is more heat tolerant. But, since it's the same sensor, that wish is probably more fantasy than reality.

 

If I do not use live view / EVF, then things are fine. I have not had a lock-up of any type when using the M-240 as a RF camera.

 

Trust the M-P I have yet to even open does not have instant problems like you found. I dare say I would send mine back to the dealer for $8k if I found an issue like that instead of waiting for a Leica NJ return which can take weeks.

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Your comments sound hauntingly familiar except that I am now on my 8th M240. This last one I will not open until after a very sandy & windy trip starting any day. However, since I often tripod and have the same issues as you with removing everything on the bottom of the camera just to aleviate the lockup, it has gotten to the point of me just being pissed off with Leica.

 

I even had an L bracket machined so I now do not have to remove it from the MF grip. I just twist the MF grip off camera base with thumb wheel, remove camera body from MF grip and L bracket while they are still attached to tripod, remove battery, reinsert or change battery and off I go again until it happens again in another 20-30-40-50-or 60 minutes. ( I use the L bracket with L on the right side of camera so RF viewing is pleasant experience with L bracket.)

 

No FW .15 did not stop my lockups, but I do believe (or want to believe) that they are less frequent since the latest FW update.

 

You've had eight cameras that lock up and continue to buy more? Wow. That is true dedication. I had one lockup within the first month of ownership in 2013 with old firmware and using EVF. None since. I wonder if there is something unique about the work you do that contributes to 8 cameras behaving this way.. I would not have had your patience.

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I have also experienced lock up a number of times. Maybe 10 times in total over the last 4 months. Both before and after the newest firmware. The pattern, it seems, is when I shoot consecutive shots very fast in single mode. No live view and no EVF. With at least two different SD cards. Normal European temperatures in the low to mid 20`s celsius. Removal of battery and it fires right up again.

 

//Daniel

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You've had eight cameras that lock up and continue to buy more? Wow. That is true dedication. I had one lockup within the first month of ownership in 2013 with old firmware and using EVF. None since. I wonder if there is something unique about the work you do that contributes to 8 cameras behaving this way.. I would not have had your patience.

 

I am too much committed to Leica with all the lenses I currently have. I do use LV and the EVF most often for landscapes since I have but one good eye and use this approach for accurate framing on lenses wider than 28mm which I tend to use for landscape about 80% of the time. For street, the RF works well.

 

While using the EVF I often will do multiple images for later stitching )or for safety) and often do three exposures per shot, not braketing with the camera. For the $ Leica charges there should be NO problems like this lock up issue. They just have not designed the camera correctly for what they themselves say one can do with the camera. Time will tell if the 2GB buffer will help for my purposes.

 

I recall my last summers meeting at Solms about this issue and that of the cable relase problem. Turns out even though they declined knowing about any problems with the cable release, it was later determined that a supplier had incorrectly coated the thread holes on a batch or two (I guess) causing cable releases to hang sideways when screwed into the cable release hole and breaking off prematurely. Leica NJ fixed one of my M's after it was found as a problem by Solms. I probably spent over $200 to replace damaged cable releases-6 on one 3 week trip.

 

They also declined to admit to lock ups last summer, even thoiugh I had one in the showroom while Stefan Daniel was within ear shot. Only when they figure how to fix lockups will they admit the issue exists and I dare say it will not be a recall as the cost to Blackstone would not be acceptable to them, just like the cable release issue was not officially "announced" that I know of.

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I do not think the dig at Blackstoke is realistic. A shareholder is normally not involved in operational decisions, nor does a minority shareholder have the final word.

A bit hard to do a general recall too if only a few random users report a fault.

Edited by jaapv
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