Filter Frustration: mixed messages from Solms

[Guest sirvine]

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Well, despite Occam's Razor, it seems somewhat plausible to me that B&H would seize the opportunity to hold the inventory for sale before the shipments reach Leica's customers, since many (like myself) are impatient enough to buy a few from them.

 

This assumes, of course, that B&H acts like the Wal-Mart of photo retail, pushing around their OEMs pretty hard to squeeze every dollar. It's a little hard to imagine Wal-Mart refusing orders on religious holidays and the sabbath, though. Haha...so much for that theory!

[B&W]

I got my 39 and 46 weeks ago.

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[B&W]

People who want everything at everytime should go for Japanese products build somewhere in Asia...

 

The Proforma-Invoice shipped with the filters says: Cntry of Manuf,: Japan;)

[argomazov]

Hi,

 

with some disbelief on my part, having read about the looong delays in this and other threads, today FedEx ringed my bell with an unexpected package from leica.

 

Of course they were my two 39mm IR-cut filters.

 

I registered in late March and I am in Europe. I confirm that the country of manufacture is Japan, as stated by the pro-forma invoice.

 

I am not sure what order Leica is using for shipping the filters, but possibly the country each user resides in has an effect on the delay: maybe import problems?

 

Cheers,

Luca

[jlm]

here is one of my last interchanges:

 

 

Dear Mr Milich,

>thank you for your email. I understand that it is hard to wait for

>something you need. The high order incoming causes a longer delivery

>period than we would like to offer. The only thing I can tell you is

>that the delivery period for the filters will be approximate about 3

>month. We ask for your understanding as the shippment of filters is

>executed by an external company.

>Thank you very much!

>Kind regards

>Jessica Schwanzara

>

>-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----

>Von: john milich [mailto:jm@milich.com]

>Gesendet: Montag, 23. April 2007 22:55

>An: Herold, Andrea

>Betreff: tri-elmar

>

>I have received a notice indicating you have received my order for the

>16-18-21 Tri-elmar with finder under the 30% discount offer. I realize

>the lens is in short supply, but can you estimate a delivery time?

>

>I also have on order the 55mm and 46mm UV/IR cut filters. Can you

>estimate delivery for those? It is especially frustrating to see that

>several dealers now have the 46mm and other sizes in stock before you

>have shipped to the M8 owners who have had filters on order from very

>early on.

>

>thanks for your response.

>

>john milich

 

 

for the record, I recieved my camera in december and ordered filters in january. Popflash and B&H have the 46mm, and March buyers of the M8 are getting their filters, however, nothing but the above response suggesting 3 months for me.

[photolandscape]

If you look at a number of my earlier posts about Leica's customer relations issues, this one will seem redundant. I have read all of the rationales and apologies devoted Leica customers have posted in support of the company--Leica is small, Leica means wells, Leica isn't Nikon or Canon, Leica this, Leica that--and for all of the issues we've encountered as excited, new M8 users.

 

But none of that changes the all too clear fact that Leica either doesn't get it, or doesn't care enough about these issues. If I were Mr. Lee, one of my major efforts would be to greatly improve customer relations and learn to deal with serious business crisis issues. Now. No more of the stiff upper lip, no more ignoring reality, no more waiting for problems to evaporate. Doesn't work that way in today's global economy. Feedback, negative or positive, is invaluable if one chooses to listen to it and apply the lessons learned.

 

All companies stumble. What separates the best from the rest is how they respond. Sticking one's head in the sand is not a legitimate strategy. Please Leica, evaluate the experience of the past six months with the release of the great M8--the IR issue, the delayed firmware, the AWB problems, splotchy sensors, electrical quirks and all the rest--and learn from them and just as important, let us know what you've learned and what you are doing to ensure these things won't continue. It is so damned simple. Why not do it?

 

I will be happy to relocate to Solms (sorry though, I don't know German) to head up this effort. Or, failing that, please find someone with the proper experience and who is fluent in German to make it happen.

 

Don't forget, there isn't a single person I'm aware of here who doesn't want Leica to succeed, grow, prosper, and continue for decades to come. But Leica must do what must be done to correct these ongoing, destructive issues. It is a two-way street. We are buying, using, and evaluating your products and freely sharing our experiences, good or bad. Leica needs to return the favor--listen, process, and communicate. Time is of the essence.

[HaraldL]

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If you look at a number of my earlier posts about Leica's customer relations issues, this one will seem redundant. I have read all of the rationales and apologies devoted Leica customers have posted in support of the company--Leica is small, Leica means wells, Leica isn't Nikon or Canon, Leica this, Leica that--and for all of the issues we've encountered as excited, new M8 users.

 

But none of that changes the all too clear fact that Leica either doesn't get it, or doesn't care enough about these issues. If I were Mr. Lee, one of my major efforts would be to greatly improve customer relations and learn to deal with serious business crisis issues. Now. No more of the stiff upper lip, no more ignoring reality, no more waiting for problems to evaporate. Doesn't work that way in today's global economy. Feedback, negative or positive, is invaluable if one chooses to listen to it and apply the lessons learned.

 

All companies stumble. What separates the best from the rest is how they respond. Sticking one's head in the sand is not a legitimate strategy. Please Leica, evaluate the experience of the past six months with the release of the great M8--the IR issue, the delayed firmware, the AWB problems, splotchy sensors, electrical quirks and all the rest--and learn from them and just as important, let us know what you've learned and what you are doing to ensure these things won't continue. It is so damned simple. Why not do it?

 

I will be happy to relocate to Solms (sorry though, I don't know German) to head up this effort. Or, failing that, please find someone with the proper experience and who is fluent in German to make it happen.

 

Don't forget, there isn't a single person I'm aware of here who doesn't want Leica to succeed, grow, prosper, and continue for decades to come. But Leica must do what must be done to correct these ongoing, destructive issues. It is a two-way street. We are buying, using, and evaluating your products and freely sharing our experiences, good or bad. Leica needs to return the favor--listen, process, and communicate. Time is of the essence.

I think they're working very hard in Solms these days. A lot of the problems discussed on this forum are the result of a digital M-camera we all wanted as fast as possible.

If still noteworthy I received two e39 filters last week.

[thpeters]

They understand English perfectly. I am probably the most loyal and tolerant M8 user on the forum, but this takes it one too far for me as well.

I sent them the following mail:

 

This message was from Jaap:

 

Hello Jaap,

 

Not a biggie, but there are a lot loyal and tolerant M8 users....my 2 cents.

 

Theo

[bradreiman]

Filter Frustration-The grown men being cry-babies thread

[carstenw]

Filter Frustration-The grown men being cry-babies thread

I hope you are joking more than it sounds like here. I also don't like the complaints, but this counter-complaint is hardly made from the grown-man POV, or?

[Shootist]

Filter Frustration-The grown men being cry-babies thread

 

And Bradley you are a Richard Head.

 

This quote from jlm's post of a reply from Leica sums it up.

 

We ask for your understanding as the shippment of filters is

>executed by an external company.

 

This is totally unacceptable. Why isn't Leica AG handling the shipping of the promised filters. That external company should be fired.

[jaapv]

They understand English perfectly. I am probably the most loyal and tolerant M8 user on the forum, but this takes it one too far for me as well.

I sent them the following mail:

 

This message was from Jaap:

 

Hello Jaap,

 

Not a biggie, but there are a lot loyal and tolerant M8 users....my 2 cents.

 

Theo

 

Of course, Theo, but I have been battling the trolls since early November...

I don't want this to turn into a Leica-bashing thread. Up until now I never had anything but impeccable customer service. I saw my mail was read- long past working hours- by Attila van Gyimes, so I'll probably hear from Leica tomorrow on this matter.

[dkamp]

I received my two, chrome, E39 filters today. Delivery took about one month from my M8 registration and request.

[Bill Sievers]

Filters? I don't need no stinkin filters!

[seiden]

I am surprised that no one has started a legal action against Leica! They put a camera on the market that has serious color problems, seemingly without realizing that the problems exist. Then in response to the discovery, they make an excuse to justify the design. Seemingly had they anticipated the problem to begin with, as you'd think any company with a sophisticated R&D department would, they would have had a solution ready at the time the product was shipped. Here we are months after purchase, having ordered filters that we haven't received, with no indication at the time of order that they didn't have them to ship. To add further insult, user Forum messages suggest that the filters may not even correct the color problem.

 

I also have to wonder why they will only give us 2 free filters. I have 5 M lenses. I paid to have three upgraded. I have used Leicas for 25 years. The reward I get for being a loyal user is that I have to purchase additional filters because the M8 has a color problem. I have to pay extra because Leica brought something to market that requires assistive devices. I'm guessing that were I to purchase a new lens the filter won't be included in the price. You'd think that all new lenses would automatically be shipped with a filter.

 

The very least Leica could do is supply anyone with an M8 free filters for every M lens he/she owns and to provide them with every new lens.

 

If as the Forum suggest the filters do not totally remedy the situation, at the very lease Leica should warn future buyers of M8's of the problem.

[stunsworth]

I am surprised that no one has started a legal action against Leica! They put a camera on the market that has serious color problems, seemingly without realizing that the problems exist. Then in response to the discovery, they make an excuse to justify the design.

 

Quite how a legal action that could bankrupt the company and put us all in the shit would 'help' is beyond me. The issues surrounding the M8 are well know. If they are unacceptable to an individual they they should either return the camera or not buy it in the first place. This is old ground that we're covering here.

 

The supply of filters is out of Leica's hands, they don't make them. I'm sure they are as embarrassed about the situation as others are angry.

[jaapv]

I am surprised that no one has started a legal action against Leica! They put a camera on the market that has serious color problems, seemingly without realizing that the problems exist. Then in response to the discovery, they make an excuse to justify the design. Seemingly had they anticipated the problem to begin with, as you'd think any company with a sophisticated R&D department would, they would have had a solution ready at the time the product was shipped. Here we are months after purchase, having ordered filters that we haven't received, with no indication at the time of order that they didn't have them to ship. To add further insult, user Forum messages suggest that the filters may not even correct the color problem.

 

I also have to wonder why they will only give us 2 free filters. I have 5 M lenses. I paid to have three upgraded. I have used Leicas for 25 years. The reward I get for being a loyal user is that I have to purchase additional filters because the M8 has a color problem. I have to pay extra because Leica brought something to market that requires assistive devices. I'm guessing that were I to purchase a new lens the filter won't be included in the price. You'd think that all new lenses would automatically be shipped with a filter.

 

The very least Leica could do is supply anyone with an M8 free filters for every M lens he/she owns and to provide them with every new lens.

 

If as the Forum suggest the filters do not totally remedy the situation, at the very lease Leica should warn future buyers of M8's of the problem.

 

This post seems a bit influenced by the mountaindwellers in your country It would be worth your while to go back by 5 months in the forum. To answer your post in detail would be to rehash a zillion of other threads. I suggest to use the camera as it should be and only then to form an opinion on its qualities and shortcomings.

[j. borger]

The reward I get for being a loyal user is that I have to purchase additional filters because the M8 has a color problem. .

You have to buy the filters because you obvious WANT to use an M8 .... or did somebody put a gun to your head when you bought or odered one?? .... In that case i would take the guy with the gun to court....

Jeeze ... glad that "American legal action nonsens" did not make it over the ocean yet....

[larry]

I've read some incredibly wonky things on this forum but this one is the prize winner:

 

 

I am surprised that no one has started a legal action against Leica! They put a camera on the market that has serious color problems, seemingly without realizing that the problems exist. Then in response to the discovery, they make an excuse to justify the design. Seemingly had they anticipated the problem to begin with, as you'd think any company with a sophisticated R&D department would, they would have had a solution ready at the time the product was shipped. Here we are months after purchase, having ordered filters that we haven't received, with no indication at the time of order that they didn't have them to ship. To add further insult, user Forum messages suggest that the filters may not even correct the color problem.

 

I also have to wonder why they will only give us 2 free filters. I have 5 M lenses. I paid to have three upgraded. I have used Leicas for 25 years. The reward I get for being a loyal user is that I have to purchase additional filters because the M8 has a color problem. I have to pay extra because Leica brought something to market that requires assistive devices. I'm guessing that were I to purchase a new lens the filter won't be included in the price. You'd think that all new lenses would automatically be shipped with a filter.

 

The very least Leica could do is supply anyone with an M8 free filters for every M lens he/she owns and to provide them with every new lens.

 

If as the Forum suggest the filters do not totally remedy the situation, at the very lease Leica should warn future buyers of M8's of the problem.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Shootist]

I've read some incredibly wonky things on this forum but this one is the prize winner:

 

Well to a point I have to agree with seiden, NOT about the legal action, about filters.

I have recently bought 4 new Leica lenses, 28/2.8, 35/2, 50/2 and a 75/2, It would be nice to have Leica supply the needed IR cut filters for these new lenses for registered M8 owners as for taking color images they are totally needed. Now for supplying filter for older lenses or those bought used NO I don't think Leica should be responsible for the filters.

In any event if Leica was to supply them I'd probably be DEAD by the time they showed up.