Mixalis Posted January 9, 2014 Share #1 Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) I am currently working on a test of the LEICA C as a follow-up to my X Vario review. I would be very interested in comments from owners (and owners of the Panasonic LF-1) with particular reference to 1) IQ versus the D-Lux 6, 2) Competitors such as the RX100, 3) the usefulness of the viewfinder, 4) the stepped zoom feature. Plus, of course, any general comments on handling, convenience, etc. Thanks. Edited January 9, 2014 by Mixalis Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 Hi Mixalis, Take a look here Leica C under test--comments welcome. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
isaac Posted January 9, 2014 Share #2 Posted January 9, 2014 Hello Mike! I am currently working on a test of the LEICA C as a follow-up to my X Vario review. I would be very interested in comments from owners (and owners of the Panasonic LF-1) with particular reference to 1) IQ versus the D-Lux 6, 2) Competitors such as the RX100, 3) the usefulness of the viewfinder, 4) the stepped zoom feature. Plus, of course, any general comments on handling, convenience, etc. Thanks. I have bought the Leica C in November last year and already done some hundred pictures with it. When the Panasonic LF-1 was announced and available in stores, I tried some pictures - misfortunately in JPG - and was far away from being satisfied. After having the camera available in the Leica Shop here in Vienna, I tried again, but only raws (RWL). The difference was enormous, but I fear, it was more a matter of using raw than JPG. 1) I never had any D-Lux, so I cannot give any verdict. 2) I also never had any RX100 (why should I?) 3) the viewfinder is useful, even in its tiny layout, if ambient light does not allow to use the LCD on the backside or "concealed photography" is neccessary 4) the stepped zoom feature gives this little gem a fealing like having a "serious" camera, I have it always switched on. Using LR 5.3, the image quality could be raised to a level, one would expect it is - at least - from a (µ)FT camera and prints in 4x6 are hardly to distinguish from M8/9 mainly in details and color representation. If one accepts some grain like in old style photography, even high-ISO (up to 1600) are wonderful (if you know, how to tweak in LR). Bottom line: JPGs ooc are simply a mess and even worse than from my C-Lux 2.. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mixalis Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share #3 Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) Thanks, Harald. All very useful and I will bear in mind. Your comment on jpgs is particularly valuable. I tend always to use RAW but will look info this. Edited January 9, 2014 by Mixalis Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pintpot Posted January 19, 2014 Share #4 Posted January 19, 2014 Hi Mike I've had my C since end of October 2013 - I only shoot RAW but will try Jpeg and pass any observations on to you. I like the stepped zoom feature and use it from time to time but for the most part I use the camera on aperture priority. I've found the using the front rotating wheel very useful on this mode. I use the camera viewfinder all the time and only use the screen to review, or when using on a tripod. A friend from my club wondered - how big will the it print to? so I printed off a couple of A3's and the comment was - well! no problem there then! most impressive! The Lightroom 5 download is a real statement as to how Leica view the C as a serious addition to their range. I'd like to see a solution for a cable release rather than an 'app' (no Iphone) cheers! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mixalis Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share #5 Posted January 19, 2014 Hi MikeI've had my C since end of October 2013 - I only shoot RAW but will try Jpeg and pass any observations on to you. I like the stepped zoom feature and use it from time to time but for the most part I use the camera on aperture priority. I've found the using the front rotating wheel very useful on this mode. I use the camera viewfinder all the time and only use the screen to review, or when using on a tripod. A friend from my club wondered - how big will the it print to? so I printed off a couple of A3's and the comment was - well! no problem there then! most impressive! The Lightroom 5 download is a real statement as to how Leica view the C as a serious addition to their range. I'd like to see a solution for a cable release rather than an 'app' (no Iphone) cheers! Thanks, Tony, all valuable stuff. I am collating this thread and may well add a few quotes to the finished report. Incidentally, while I know all the normal reasons, why did you choose the Leica C over the LF-1? I can make a good case for the Leica but this always begins to sound like some sort of excuse since the Panasonic is virtually the same camera. What are your views? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 19, 2014 Share #6 Posted January 19, 2014 I chose the Panasonic for the simple reason that it was the same camera for less money. As I use it as a last-ditch backup I have no interest in extra software or red dots. Btw, the Panorama function sucks… 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pintpot Posted January 19, 2014 Share #7 Posted January 19, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks, Tony, all valuable stuff. , while I know all the normal reasons, why did you choose the Leica C over the LF-1? I What are your views? While the look of the C was not so much an issue, I do prefer the colour and general style of it over the Panasonic. The Lightroom 5 software was something I wanted plus the passport was important also, And as I have now been using my Leicas over all my other kit (from 5x4 down to Sony DSLR) there was no way I was going to get a compact camera by any other maker. Simple as that! Regards 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted January 20, 2014 Share #8 Posted January 20, 2014 If your review is going to claim some IQ improvement in the Leica version, please back it up with clear and directly comparable photographic evidence! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mixalis Posted January 20, 2014 Author Share #9 Posted January 20, 2014 If your review is going to claim some IQ improvement in the Leica version, please back it up with clear and directly comparable photographic evidence! No, I am not. I can see no reason to suggest the camera is better than the LF-1 except in cosmetics. It all comes down to a matter of choice. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted January 20, 2014 Share #10 Posted January 20, 2014 I should be very interested to hear comments on the JPEG output. I am looking for a replacement for my wife’s ageing V-Lux 20, as I think the life of these little P&S cameras is rarely much more than 4 to 5 years, with the usual failure being the lens extension mechanism. The V-Lux 20 may last a bit better as I have finally persuaded my wife to keep it in a case and not just chuck the bare camera into her hand bag. She has no interest whatsoever in getting involved in RAW and conversions, so it is an essential that any camera I get her produces reasonable JPEG’s, which the V-Lux does. If the JPEG’s are adequate, I would probably get her a C rather than an LF-1 for the simple reason that I would then get less sideways looks at my M240 and various lenses Wilson 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
prk60091 Posted January 20, 2014 Share #11 Posted January 20, 2014 I do not think the OOC jpeg's are 'up to snuff'. One positive (?) benefit of that observation is that I started to really learn RAW processing and the RAW developed images are very good. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted January 20, 2014 Share #12 Posted January 20, 2014 I do not think the OOC jpeg's are 'up to snuff'. One positive (?) benefit of that observation is that I started to really learn RAW processing and the RAW developed images are very good. There is zero chance that my wife will learn RAW image processing, so that is not good news on the JPEG front. I could get her a V-Lux40 but I know she would prefer to have a camera with a viewfinder. The Fuji X’s are too big and the C seemed to fit the bill. Wilson 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mixalis Posted January 20, 2014 Author Share #13 Posted January 20, 2014 There is zero chance that my wife will learn RAW image processing, so that is not good news on the JPEG front. I could get her a V-Lux40 but I know she would prefer to have a camera with a viewfinder. The Fuji X’s are too big and the C seemed to fit the bill. Wilson Unfortunately my review probably will not devote much attention to JPG output; I tend to prefer RAW and do not use in-camera JPGs with any of my cameras. However, this isn't the first time I've heard negative comments about the C's OOC jpegs so I do not hold out much hope. As for viewfinders, you are very limited in choice if you want that size of camera. It's one of the main reasons I would choose the LF-1 or C over, say, the Sony RX100 which benefits from the larger sensor. The Fuji X20 is another contender. Although the viewfinder is optical rather than digital it does display some information. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted January 20, 2014 Share #14 Posted January 20, 2014 Mike, The Fuji X20 is a fair bit bigger and a lot heavier than the C (353gr against 195gr). Too big and too heavy for SWMBO I fear. I wonder if I just buy the C and say nothing about the JPEG quality, she will not notice. She rarely prints anyway but just looks at images on a 22” screen. Wilson 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mixalis Posted January 20, 2014 Author Share #15 Posted January 20, 2014 Mike, The Fuji X20 is a fair bit bigger and a lot heavier than the C (353gr against 195gr). Too big and too heavy for SWMBO I fear. I wonder if I just buy the C and say nothing about the JPEG quality, she will not notice. She rarely prints anyway but just looks at images on a 22” screen. Wilson Yes, but if SWMBO finds out she will never let the matter drop. Caveat emptor! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted January 20, 2014 Share #16 Posted January 20, 2014 (edited) Yes, but if SWMBO finds out she will never let the matter drop. Caveat emptor! What we have decided to do for our forthcoming trip to India is take a risk on the V-Lux20. I have put a tiny bit of silicon watch oil on the outside of the lens extension tubes, motored them in and out a few times and then wiped any visible oil off the tubes. They seem to be motoring in and out much more smoothly than they were. If it dies on the trip, my wife will just take over my Olympus EP-5 back up camera, which if you put it in either scene or program mode and JPEG fine, is basically point and shoot and get a replacement on our return. Sadly we will not have a long enough stop over in Doha, Qatar on the way out, to hit their duty free, where I understand the prices are very attractive and they stock Leica compacts. I asked if I could order over the phone, buy by card and they could arrange delivery to our onward Qatar A/W flight but the answer was no. I know Dubai duty free will do this for Emirates passengers in business and first class. Wilson PS. I am surprised Leica have not done a deal with someone like Mont Blanc to sell the Leica Compacts and X cameras in their duty free shops. Edited January 20, 2014 by wlaidlaw 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mixalis Posted January 20, 2014 Author Share #17 Posted January 20, 2014 What we have decided to do for our forthcoming trip to India is take a risk on the V-Lux20. Sounds like a good plan. Have a great trip. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted January 21, 2014 Share #18 Posted January 21, 2014 I was just looking at Panasonic’s forthcoming cameras and the TZ60 looks very interesting with a 24-720mm EFOV lens, 18MP CMOS sensor and an EVF. My guess is that this may be the basis of the V-Lux 50. In which case I would wait for that for my wife. Ticks all the boxes for what she is looking for. Wilson 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuny Posted January 21, 2014 Share #19 Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) Wilson - I just sent a PM to you regarding a camera for your wife. I assumed she'd want a very small one since you were mentioning the C. If she'd be happy with the V-Lux 4 size I most heartily recommend it or its next version. Two cautions, though: 1. Then entire line, from the first pre- D-Lux Panasonics up to the current ones have a diopter setting wheel that is a bit too easy to change when moving the camera in and out of bags. It will still autofoucs fine, but what you see through the viewfinder before reajusting is much like after you've had your pupils idlated at an opthomologist's office. 2. The Autofocus/Macro/Manual focus switch is also a bit too easy the move accidentally. Otherwise, that's all I've used since Christmas 2012 (thank you, Barbara), except for my non-Leica underwater camera. Edited January 21, 2014 by stuny 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted January 21, 2014 Share #20 Posted January 21, 2014 Wilson - I just sent a PM to you regarding a camera for your wife. I assumed she'd want a very small one since you were mentioning the C. If she'd be happy with the V-Lux 4 size I most heartily recommend it or its next version. Two cautions, though: 1. Then entire line, from the first pre- D-Lux Panasonics up to the current ones have a diopter setting wheel that is a bit too easy to change when moving the camera in and out of bags. It will still autofoucs fine, but what you see through the viewfinder before reajusting is much like after you've had your pupils idlated at an opthomologist's office. 2. The Autofocus/Macro/Manual focus switch is also a bit too easy the move accidentally. Otherwise, that's all I've used since Christmas 2012 (thank you, Barbara), except for my non-Leica underwater camera. Stuart, Thanks for the kind suggestions. I think the single digit V-Luxes would be too big. She would be looking for something near to the size of her current V-Lux 20. If the TZ60 (ZS40 in the USA) is released as the V-Lux 50, that would be near perfect for her needs. I have wondered if Leica specifies better quality rotary switches than Panasonic does. My kids have had Panasonics and the selector switches always seem to lose their detents and freely rotate into the wrong setting. This did not happen on my wife’s PanaLeica C-Lux or V-Lux 20. The D-Lux you suggest has too short a zoom. Wilson 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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