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Black Summicron Collapsible


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....

 

But what do you think about such a description of another Summicron coll., seen on Ebay:

 

Leica M Summicron 50mm Prototyp oder Vorserie SerNr.10..00 Bj 1952 MINTY A- cond | eBay

 

Lot of fun !!!

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Is the bidder of the final price of US $ 16,100 with 964 transactions not more of a dealer? The initials s .. h are not unknown to the worldwide Leica trade, but of course this could all be purely coincidental ... Hello guest! Please register or sign in to view the hidden content. Hallo Gast! Du willst die Bilder sehen? Einfach registrieren oder anmelden!

This is a doubt I have too, but I really am NOT in the "ebay ecosystem" so things that look odd to me can be normal for others... my view is that the well known specialized auction houses (and Vienna at the top, probably) have a "selling power" that exceeds the "reaching power" of ebay, but they ask also higher fees (I think) and do pretend sureness for what they sell , expecially for rare items : in this case, much of the originality is tied to the warranty card (the item in itself can surely b

Lot of fun !!! Hello guest! Please register or sign in to view the hidden content. Hallo Gast! Du willst die Bilder sehen? Einfach registrieren oder anmelden!

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Lot of fun !!!

 

It seems a bit early, but this is my opinion:

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This offer was ended by the seller because the item is no longer available.

 

 

Leica M Summicron 50mm Prototyp oder Vorserie SerNr.10..00 Bj 1952 MINTY A- cond | eBay

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This is a doubt I have too, but I really am NOT in the "ebay ecosystem" so things that look odd to me can be normal for others... my view is that the well known specialized auction houses (and Vienna at the top, probably) have a "selling power" that exceeds the "reaching power" of ebay, but they ask also higher fees (I think) and do pretend sureness for what they sell , expecially for rare items : in this case, much of the originality is tied to the warranty card (the item in itself can surely be a DIY paintjob ...good quotation, Chris ) , on which I have not any valuable opinion (can it be faked from an old original ? probably... old typewriters abound; is it easy to find an original card, blank ? Dunno ; is an old original, written, easy to be erased ? Dunno)

 

Starting from the point that this item, if original, is really rare and valuable, I can only think of what I would do in case I have it and want to sell :

- Contact Peter Coeln or another of the same league, provide detailed pictures, story behind etc...

- Depending on the answers, in case I would even send the item to them... with a sure carrier...

- Depending on the further answers, I could decide if

* Negotiate with them a base price for the next auction, and related details

* (unprobable) accept a direct cash offer from them, if they do one

* Get back to me the item - go on ebay

 

But repeat, that's MY mood (a people who never sold anything on ebay) : I have the feel that if I start with an attempt on ebay, just to probe the market, I am, in a certain sense, "burnt out" for a second chance with auctioners , who surely keep record of the Big Auction Site... the inverse approach seems more reasonable to me, counting on the discretion of professional sellers.

 

Anyway... at the current offfer (1525 US$) I would surely buy it, knowing to afford a certain risk...(after all, it's anyway a nice Summicron) ; at double of it or above, I surely won't buy it.

 

I perfectly understand all your considerations.

I know very well both Ebay and the Auctions world. It's not rare to find that something sold on ebay for a certain price, you find later ( even years, I have a huge database) sold by a famous auctioneer for a lot more. There are professionals "smart people" doing this giving a lot of time. It's a type of hunting that you can not improvise, but those who have flair earn good.

Is this the case? Well, this is another story...

 

Best Wishes

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The more I look at the pictures the less convinced I am.

It appears the previous owner never collapsed the lens, the centre tube is nearly mint.

They also look to have fiddled a lot with the knurling around the infinity lock to wear it so much, funny I just push mine in

The wear on the rings is remarkably even and the white front engraving looks really fresh, of course it would be being behind the UV filter, except that filter is very fresh compared to the front lens ring wear.

 

Perhaps the seller has done themselves no favours with such a detailed listing

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Yes, I noticed those same things Chris. The missing paint on the infinity stop is the most damaging clue that the lens may be a fake. But I have seen Leica painted items lose there paint in all sorts of fashions.The bayonet is brass with no chrome ... which is not uncommon ( sabears taught me that ) ..... The tube does show signs of ware in the pictures .... you have to click on them to see the larger size photo. I am very interested in purchasing the lens on eBay ...... so I have been really looking hard at it. I have a few e39 black filters already and to give the seller the benefit of doubt, the filter is not made of brass, it is made of anodized aluminum .... which is a much more durable finish than paint ...... also the filter may be newer than the lens. Also if you look at the sellers selling history you can see that he has done some re-finishing of M3's, he just sold an M3 that he painted white ( my God !!! ) ..... and he has also done an M3 in black. But when he paints an item he clearly states that the item was re-finished. Looking at his selling history he has a lot more authentic items that he has sold versus painted items. And he has 100% positive feedback .... plus he offers a 14 day return policy ... so these are the reasons that I still feel safe to attempt to purchase the lens. That was my pep talk to myself .... haha ...... plus ... if I get the lens and don't like what I see ... I can return it to the seller.

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The bayonet is brass with no chrome ... which is not uncommon ( sabears taught me that ) .....

The bayonet appears to be black painted (which I find odd in itself - brass yes, black paint on a bayonet which will wear off and could so easily get inside a camera...?). And, if you look at the surface of the lens flange which rotates against the camera as the bayonet is turned to locate the lens and finally lock it into place, it shows (handling?) edge wear but no virtually no surface wear (one scratch only). Now this is not what I would expect given the condition of the rest of the lens which shows 'reasonable' wear from apparent use. Caveat emptor methinks, but then again I'm not an expert, just pointing out what would trouble me.....

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Yes, I noticed those same things Chris. That was my pep talk to myself .... haha ...... plus ... if I get the lens and don't like what I see ... I can return it to the seller.

 

I re-looked at the auction example and the barrel wear was comparable, I suppose it's how high you want to go to actually buy and handle it to convince yourself.

I read the e-bay "trick" is to ask the "system" for a refund and return on the grounds "not as described" no further wording. Apparently this is then automatic, if you go into detail the other party can request expert opinions etc.

I agree the feedback appears to reflect honest dealing and really there are so few like this to compare with who really knows? I have certainly never handled one and would never put myself forward as an expert.

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The private seller can check my cash when we both go to a bank of his choice.

At the same place I can check carefully before giving the money to him, whether the Leica article has the qualities described on Ebay.

If not, I've just wasted the miles driven and the time spent, which is why I make such purchases only in my local area.

 

 

And if it turns out to be stolen or subsequently faulty you have no leg to stand on, you paid cash, you inspected the goods, there is no 30 days period of grace, you bought it. Why do you think Ebay discourage cash sales?

 

I'm not sure why you want me to comment on the Ebay text you pasted? It seems like the perfect trap for a 'knob head' to enter into, but is hardly an example of regular Ebay practice?

 

Steve

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If a buyer doesn't like the item they purchased they simply just have to state that the description was wrong. I sold a lens on eBay years ago that I considered to have perfect glass. The buyer ended up wanting to send the item back to me because he said that there was haze in the lens. I got the lens back and I said I couldn't see any haze .... The buyer told me that I had to shine a very bright LED flashlight through the lens to see the haze ... Seemed ridiculous to me ... But I ended up shining a light through the lens and when I did I could see plenty of dust and a bit of haze. I don't believe there is a lens on earth that won't show some issues when shining LED lights through it. It happened to me again with another lens and the buyer said that there was some cleaning marks on the lens .... I know that there wasn't any marks on the lens when I sent it to him .... But when I got it back it had plenty of marks .... I believe he marked up the lens just so he could return it. Basically it's my experience that a buyer can and will return an item by any means necessary if they decide they don't want the item.

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Hallo Sail222, I understand you are really interested in this BP summicron.

In this case I'm confident you will find in the Leitz registers the annotation regarding it, if any.

You must contact Leica, is something that would make even the seller, IMHO.

 

best wishes.

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And if it turns out to be stolen or subsequently faulty you have no leg to stand on, you paid cash, you inspected the goods, there is no 30 days period of grace, you bought it. Why do you think Ebay discourage cash sales?

 

I'm not sure why you want me to comment on the Ebay text you pasted? It seems like the perfect trap for a 'knob head' to enter into, but is hardly an example of regular Ebay practice?

 

Steve

Damage should be able to recognize before buying during the visual inspection.

Therefore, this method of acquisition falls out of cameras for me.

Before purchasing I ask Leica, if the lens has been reported as stolen.

Ridiculous deals like the quoted, unfortunately are not isolated cases.

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No question, IMHO, it is forgery.

 

jc_braconi , I greatly value your opinion as well as the others on the forum. Please tell me what convinces you that it is a forgery. And also, Sabears - who do I contact at Leica for information ?? Many Thanks to you all & Merry Christmas (I am taking a five minute break from building the biggest Lego set that was ever made with my 5 year old boy)

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jc_braconi , I greatly value your opinion as well as the others on the forum. Please tell me what convinces you that it is a forgery. And also, Sabears - who do I contact at Leica for information ?? Many Thanks to you all & Merry Christmas (I am taking a five minute break from building the biggest Lego set that was ever made with my 5 year old boy)

 

Hallo, you have a message...

 

Best wishes

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Thank You Sabears .... you continuously have been so helpful and friendly. A grand fellow !! But unfortunately I believe the lens has gotten a bit too pricy for me ..... auction has reached $8100 USD ...... This will be fun to watch though. Regards

pushed on by 0 or 1 evaluation

I know very well this world ...hallas...

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