gyoung Posted December 24, 2013 Share #61 Posted December 24, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Why would it be second best, you are focusing on the same point, in fact the live view would give more accurate movement of the FLE than the rangefinder pretty well all the time the lens adjustment was out Gerry Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 Hi gyoung, Take a look here Bad Nocti - Mr Magoo still alive and working at Leica. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
beoon Posted December 24, 2013 Share #62 Posted December 24, 2013 Here’s my certificate. Wilson Wilson, I purchased a Noctilux f0.95 on the 12th Dec second hand from Dale Photographic in Leeds. My test certificate is signed by the same person as yours. My lens is fine with my M9. Dale are selling off the Leica collection of one of their customers who sadly passed away. The Noctilux lens was purchased new in June 2013 by the original owner, so after speaking to Leica UK they are transferring the remaining Passport cover and Leica warranty to myself, the lens itself is as good as brand new. I guess I was lucky to get an almost new lens second hand so soon after the original sale and at a price much lower than list. I sincerely hope you get yours sorted, it will be worth the wait I am sure. Best wishes Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted December 25, 2013 Share #63 Posted December 25, 2013 Why would it be second best, you are focusing on the same point, in fact the live view would give more accurate movement of the FLE than the rangefinder pretty well all the time the lens adjustment was outGerry Hello Gerry In a lens with FLE there are parts (glasses) moving according to the distance scale. If the distance scale is not adjusted correctly, the lens is not in its optimal condition for the real distance. For instance, the lens "thinks", it is at 3 meters, because the scale says so. But the subject is in reality perhaps at 20 meters. The problem often arises with lens adapters. The adapter mostly is too thin, the lens camera filling distance, then infinity is found at a somewhat smaller distance on the scale. Without FLE no problem. If the adapter would be too thick, infinity cannot be reached, that would be very much worse. The Leica technical data tell, if a lens has a FLE design. FLE requires very much effort in the design/construction, it would be bad to throw this effort ($$$) away. Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted December 25, 2013 Author Share #64 Posted December 25, 2013 Jan, If the image is in focus on the EVF or LCD, then the final image will be in focus, irrespective of what the focus scale says or the RF image convergence. The EVF is reading from the centre of the actual sensor which is taking the image. In reality is only very expensively set up professional cine lenses on which you can rely absolutely on scale focus, as that is how they work it. In rehearsal all the positions are marked on the ground in chalk, and it is the job of the “focus puller” to measure the distance from the subject to the focus plane and note it down. In a take, the focus puller then adjusts the lens to the distances from his focus story card to the noted distances. It is very rare for the cameraman to adjust focus. He might know it was not right and they will have to adjust and correct in subsequent takes. I used to watch fascinated from my office window, while they were filming period dramas in Spitalfields in London. I also used to talk to the cameramen during lunch hour (about 12 to 3 pm!) Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted December 25, 2013 Share #65 Posted December 25, 2013 Jan,If the image is in focus on the EVF or LCD, then the final image will be in focus, irrespective of what the focus scale says or the RF image convergence. The EVF is reading from the centre of the actual sensor which is taking the image. Wilson That is clear, in principle. It would be correct, if your lens would not change itself according to the distance scale. You wrote, that your lens is about 20 m off. Your lens "thinks", it is at 20m (the scale), if your subject is at infinity. Due to the FLE the glasses (the elements) in your lens have a (somewhat) different setup according to the distance scale. The lens optimizes itself for a specific distance setting. So your EVF signals sharpness (scale 20m) for a subject at infinity. But your lens is not in its optimal state for infinity. It would deliver its best performance for a distance of 20m. Your lens is about 0.1mm too near to the sensor. That is a lot. Nice christmas. Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted December 25, 2013 Share #66 Posted December 25, 2013 Your lens needs a reading glass of 0.05 diopter. Cine lenses seem to have no autofocus. So if the cameraman has to follow a person, he must be good. Especially , because cine works with small DOF (high speed lenses). Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted December 25, 2013 Share #67 Posted December 25, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Jan, the point is that if the fle elements are correctly geared to the focus scale and the image is sharp on the evf all is well. Its most likly that it is the adjustment of the focus helicoid connection to the cam that moves the r/f is out, in which case when the two r/f images conincide the image will be out of focus AND the fle elements out of position. Its always possible that the connection between the floating elements and the focus helicoid is wrong but I would have thought less likely? Happy Christmas to all our readers as they say, Gerry Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted December 26, 2013 Share #68 Posted December 26, 2013 Gerry You are right of course. It is most likely, that the rangefinder mechanism has to be adjusted. The live view should be correct. Thank you! Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted December 27, 2013 Share #69 Posted December 27, 2013 I'd rather a machine did it. It can't have an opinion, it doesn't get tired, it doesn't want to go for a smoke, it doesn't listen to music, it doesn't want to scratch its arse. Right ! And have Mr. Magoo calibrate that machine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted December 27, 2013 Author Share #70 Posted December 27, 2013 On one of my visits to Solms a few years ago (2007 I think), I was a bit puzzled to see a large English St George’s flag at the end of the main assembly hall. I asked what it was for and did they have a bunch of England football supporters working there? I was told it was part of the lens focus checking system. I asked why they did not use one of the Zeiss machines, the K8, K9 or double Schlieren slit laser collimators? They showed me a group of machines all wrapped up in polythene and admitted they had not really got on with them. Someone else told me more recently that they have now started to use them. I would imagine that a Zeiss technician comes in to service and calibrate them, assuming the machines are Zeiss. The other company that makes or at least used to make such machinery was Olympus, as that is what my local photographic technician uses to collimate lenses. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted December 30, 2013 Author Share #71 Posted December 30, 2013 I have just been on the phone this morning to Solms (their first day back after Xmas) and they say that the focus on the Noctilux is so critical it has to be matched to the camera - hmmmmm! So that means it may not work properly on my other M’s.......and there was me thinking that the whole idea of an interchangeable lens system was that pretty much any system lens would work on any system camera. They have said that since it seems clear that my M240 is in correct adjustment (I have just borrowed a new 135 APO Telyt to double check), they will not alter the camera but only adjust the lens to suit. They claimed that the fine tuning adjustment is nothing more than many new lenses receive before they leave the factory, which is probably correct, just a pity my lens was not among them. They also said that it is only 1 in 1,000 Noctluxes that need to come back for fine tuning and BTW, there are still fairies at the bottom of the gardens in Solms. Now awaiting details of UPS collection of M240 and Nocti. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 30, 2013 Share #72 Posted December 30, 2013 Don’t worry, Wilson, it will be tolerance matching, both camera and lens will remain within the standard. Maybe the exact translation escaped the person you spoke to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted December 30, 2013 Share #73 Posted December 30, 2013 I have just been on the phone this morning to Solms (their first day back after Xmas) and they say that the focus on the Noctilux is so critical it has to be matched to the camera If this was correct, why do Leica dare to sell the Noctilux 'off the shelf'? Surely they should require purchasers to send their M bodies to Solms for the lens to be matched before it leaves the factory! Leica astound me at times, not always in a good way! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted December 30, 2013 Author Share #74 Posted December 30, 2013 If this was correct, why do Leica dare to sell the Noctilux 'off the shelf'? Surely they should require purchasers to send their M bodies to Solms for the lens to be matched before it leaves the factory! Leica astound me at times, not always in a good way! James, The feeling I get is that Leica just hope to strike lucky. Maybe it will be like the old British army SMLE rifle, where a number of design errors amazingly cancelled each other out, more by luck than judgement, and produced a superb battlefield rifle. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted December 30, 2013 Share #75 Posted December 30, 2013 I have just been on the phone this morning to Solms (their first day back after Xmas) and they say that the focus on the Noctilux is so critical it has to be matched to the camera - hmmmmm! So that means it may not work properly on my other M’s.......and there was me thinking that the whole idea of an interchangeable lens system was that pretty much any system lens would work on any system camera. They have said that since it seems clear that my M240 is in correct adjustment (I have just borrowed a new 135 APO Telyt to double check), they will not alter the camera but only adjust the lens to suit. They claimed that the fine tuning adjustment is nothing more than many new lenses receive before they leave the factory, which is probably correct, just a pity my lens was not among them. They also said that it is only 1 in 1,000 Noctluxes that need to come back for fine tuning and BTW, there are still fairies at the bottom of the gardens in Solms. Now awaiting details of UPS collection of M240 and Nocti. Wilson I think that's all speculative bullsh*t. From what you describe this lens is off and when they receive it they will no doubt just shut up, correct it ..... and put some vague german phrase on the documentation that just serves to obscure precisely what they have done...... ....... oh .... and 1 in a 1000 means one every year or two from what production was originally stated to be .... which does sound rather fanciful..... As I said before it is possible that you could adjust the rangefinder to get this to work ok and still keep your other lenses within spec ..... but if it is off on several bodies then that's a pointless exercise..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted December 30, 2013 Share #76 Posted December 30, 2013 There is precedent for matching lens and body, I remember you had to send your Bolex in for matching wuth the wide angle lenses. I also had to have a Mamiya C3 adjusted with the 55 wide angle, not required by Mamiya but we all knew it had to be done to get proper focus. I could be cynical and think that Leica expects most Noctilux to go to people who wouldn't notice the inaccuracy even if they ever took any pictures with it. So they don't waste time adjusting it unless challenged Gerry Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted December 30, 2013 Share #77 Posted December 30, 2013 I have just been on the phone this morning to Solms (their first day back after Xmas) and they say that the focus on the Noctilux is so critical it has to be matched to the camera... Curious indeed as with a critical baselength of only 27mm the 50/0.95 is much less demanding than a 75/1.4 (40mm) or a 90/2 (ditto) let alone a 135/3.4 (54mm) as far as focus accuracy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted December 31, 2013 Author Share #78 Posted December 31, 2013 Curious indeed as with a critical baselength of only 27mm the 50/0.95 is much less demanding than a 75/1.4 (40mm) or a 90/2 (ditto) let alone a 135/3.4 (54mm) as far as focus accuracy. Leica were pretty insistent that the camera had to be off until I told them that I had cross checked with a borrowed new 135/3.4 and a recently serviced and focus checked 90/2.8 (by Malcolm Taylor). Having watched the video another member posted above of UPS using parcels as footballs, goalposts and step ladders, what concerns me is that although I am very confident my M240’s rangefinder is close to perfect at the moment, what will it be like when it arrives at Solms. What will happen to it on the way back to me. I know I knocked the vertical alignment of my M8 off from a 70cm drop onto a carpeted floor, so it does not take a lot. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted December 31, 2013 Share #79 Posted December 31, 2013 Yes RF bodies are another story. I never send mine in if i can avoid it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share #80 Posted January 6, 2014 I have been advised that all has arrived at Solms and gone off for testing. I have also had a personal email from “you know who” saying she is keeping her beady eye carefully on what is happening and will be in touch as soon as she has further news. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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