mmradman Posted December 23, 2013 Share #41 Posted December 23, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Here’s my certificate. Wilson Excellent, LUF should be like 38 Degrees, making pressure, naming & shaming shoddy QC and procurement. Saved the picture of certificate just in case admin decides to remove it. All my M lenses focus well on M9 but still going to check all my certificates, perhaps when buying next lens insist to receive item that comes with trusty signature. If Leica can’t do its own QC than we have no choice but do it ourselves. Last lens I purchased from Red Dot over the phone I asked Elaine (did I get the name right) to check the SEM 21 on my behalf before posting, she obliged but also said it was unusual request as typical buyer likes to be first to open the box. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 23, 2013 Posted December 23, 2013 Hi mmradman, Take a look here Bad Nocti - Mr Magoo still alive and working at Leica. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lct Posted December 23, 2013 Share #42 Posted December 23, 2013 ...typical buyer likes to be first to open the box. Ignorance is bliss. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest borge Posted December 23, 2013 Share #43 Posted December 23, 2013 Well damn. I can't find my test certificate for the lens. It must be in it's original box which currently resides in Solms. Oh well. Mine has serial number 4221480 which is quite similar. I'll post my test certificate when I find it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted December 23, 2013 Share #44 Posted December 23, 2013 I have a question for the OP. Did you pick up your lens directly from the factory? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted December 23, 2013 Author Share #45 Posted December 23, 2013 I have a question for the OP. Did you pick up your lens directly from the factory? No I had arranged to buy an ex-display/demo Noctilux from Foto-Mundus. The morning it was due to be sent off to me, Lutz contacted me to say that a new Nocti had just arrived from Leica and offered me a very attractive deal to upgrade to the new lens, which represented a significant reduction from list price. I accepted thinking stupidly that there were less chances of a new lens having problems than an ex display lens. - Wrong! Foto Mundus would exchange it, except they don’t have another new Noctilux in stock. I would also have to pay return courier to Germany, which insured is over €100. We came to the conclusion that I, as a registered professional with Leica, would probably get a lens more quickly from Leica than Foto Mundus could. Leica also arrange pick up and return. Hence my approach to C-S in Solms. I can, of course, use the lens perfectly well but on my M240 only with live view and focus peaking. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted December 23, 2013 Share #46 Posted December 23, 2013 No I had arranged to buy an ex-display/demo Noctilux from Foto-Mundus. The morning it was due to be sent off to me, Lutz contacted me to say that a new Nocti had just arrived from Leica and offered me a very attractive deal to upgrade to the new lens, which represented a significant reduction from list price. I accepted thinking stupidly that there were less chances of a new lens having problems than an ex display lens. - Wrong! Foto Mundus would exchange it, except they don’t have another new Noctilux in stock. I would also have to pay return courier to Germany, which insured is over €100. We came to the conclusion that I, as a registered professional with Leica, would probably get a lens more quickly from Leica than Foto Mundus could. Leica also arrange pick up and return. Hence my approach to C-S in Solms. I can, of course, use the lens perfectly well but on my M240 only with live view and focus peaking. Wilson Okay. I wonder how the package was handled between the factory and your supplier. In other words, did Joe Bob Schwanz' shipping company throw the box across the room, drop or kick it into the pile? I've built some distribution centers and watched how freight and packages are handled and it ain't pretty. To some of those employees it's a contest to see how much stress they can apply to a shipment. Lenses are not cast iron and it is pretty easy to knock one out of whack. It might not be the fault of QC at all.............. I have no reason to disbelieve the lens went through all the proper testing and QC and was shipped in first class shape. I do have a reason to suspect it was a third party who was responsible. If I picked up a lens from the factory in Solms and it was faulty then I would crucify the manufacturer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted December 23, 2013 Share #47 Posted December 23, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Example: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T3nb0NBvFsg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted December 23, 2013 Share #48 Posted December 23, 2013 Fair enough for a body, especially a rangefinder, but for a lens, do you think one or more bumps can explain front or back focussing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted December 23, 2013 Author Share #49 Posted December 23, 2013 I think lenses are pretty robust. Over the years, goodness knows I have had enough “butter finger” moments and dropped, usually luckily onto carpeted floors. As LCT says, even a small drop will knock your RF out of kilter but not I think a lens. This was forwarded to me in the Leica outer box, which had airbags between it and the inner (outer thin cardboard) and finally actually the lens box. The lens inside its own box is very well protected with a tailored foam cradle. There was no evidence of any ill handling. JD I am afraid your view of the level of Leica QC is much more sanguine than mine. I am now pleasantly surprised to get a new Leica product that works properly out of the box. My strike rate for problems on delivery of new/factory rebuilt Leica lenses or problems that arrived very soon after delivery (loose front on 28 Summicron) is more than 50% on 7 lenses over the last few years. It is getting almost as bad as CV lenses. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecar Posted December 23, 2013 Share #50 Posted December 23, 2013 Example: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T3nb0NBvFsg Oh, and that's just the "last mile" part of the distribution chain. I have seen staff in a sorting center play fetch with expensive laptops... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted December 23, 2013 Share #51 Posted December 23, 2013 Fair enough for a body, especially a rangefinder, but for a lens, do you think one or more bumps can explain front or back focussing? Bumps and throwing a package over a distance or other rough handling are two different things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted December 23, 2013 Share #52 Posted December 23, 2013 I think lenses are pretty robust. Over the years, goodness knows I have had enough “butter finger” moments and dropped, usually luckily onto carpeted floors. As LCT says, even a small drop will knock your RF out of kilter but not I think a lens. This was forwarded to me in the Leica outer box, which had airbags between it and the inner (outer thin cardboard) and finally actually the lens box. The lens inside its own box is very well protected with a tailored foam cradle. There was no evidence of any ill handling. JD I am afraid your view of the level of Leica QC is much more sanguine than mine. I am now pleasantly surprised to get a new Leica product that works properly out of the box. My strike rate for problems on delivery of new/factory rebuilt Leica lenses or problems that arrived very soon after delivery (loose front on 28 Summicron) is more than 50% on 7 lenses over the last few years. It is getting almost as bad as CV lenses. Wilson I understand that. I just think it is a little unfair to blanket blame Leica without actually knowing who caused the error. I think I trust Leica QC more than I do the supply chain QC. All the air bags and foam cradle in the packaging are still at the whim of gravity and the force applied during shipping. Even if it got through pristine there is the possibility of one item out of several hundred being out of adjustment. On the upside Leica fixes these items without much difficulty when asked. That in itself bodes well for the company and I believe constitutes part of the price. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted December 23, 2013 Share #53 Posted December 23, 2013 What I find most depressing is that all these issues are so easily visible with focus peaking but leica still seem to let duds through ...... Unless it has been dropped on the floor during packing ...... I can adjust my m240 rangefinder to be perfect thanks to peaking ...... And even shift the near point to account for focus shift on the noctilux. I know all my lenses are 100% ok thanks to peaking. if I can do it myself with no Leica training then doesn't say much about the diligence or ability of the staff...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeswe Posted December 23, 2013 Share #54 Posted December 23, 2013 There are reports here that we are currently witnessing a "glut" of new Noctilux lenses surfacing at German dealers that are offered at unusually highly discounted prices. Honi soit qui mal y pense ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted December 23, 2013 Author Share #55 Posted December 23, 2013 There are reports here that we are currently witnessing a "glut" of new Noctilux lenses surfacing at German dealers that are offered at unusually highly discounted prices. Honi soit qui mal y pense ... I wouldn’t call what I got a massive discount but since the demise of H.A.Baker in Lewes as a premier dealer, where I had a 20 year long special relationship, the discount was better than I would get at any UK dealer. I posted elsewhere that I wondered if this was a sign of Leica sales slowing a bit in Germany. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted December 23, 2013 Share #56 Posted December 23, 2013 Ignorance is bliss. Bliss for Leica or end user? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted December 23, 2013 Share #57 Posted December 23, 2013 There are reports here that we are currently witnessing a "glut" of new Noctilux lenses surfacing at German dealers that are offered at unusually highly discounted prices. Honi soit qui mal y pense ... Rather odd ...... The original wisdom was that noctiluxes were assembled by a small team of specialist technicians taking a couple of days to assemble and test them ....... Hence the low output and waiting lists...... ....... Possibly this crew are now attempting to produce some 50 apos that actually work properly and noctilux production is in the hands of magoos as Wilson suggests .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted December 23, 2013 Share #58 Posted December 23, 2013 Perhaps they should outsource all production to Panasonic? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daure Posted December 24, 2013 Share #59 Posted December 24, 2013 "Vertrauen ist gut, Kontrolle ist besser" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted December 24, 2013 Share #60 Posted December 24, 2013 I can, of course, use the lens perfectly well but on my M240 only with live view and focus peaking. Wilson The lens has floating elements. That means, that live view is second best in this case. Sorry, I did not realize this in my earlier post. Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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