wlaidlaw Posted August 30, 2014 Author Share #81 Posted August 30, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Indeed. However the actual instruction book with the lens says that it is a retrofocus design - not a retrofocus like design. I have to confess that in fifty years, I have never read the instruction book that came with a lens. Camera yes, lens no. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 Hi wlaidlaw, Take a look here What happened to the “surprise” Zeiss ZM Lens. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Peter Branch Posted August 31, 2014 Share #82 Posted August 31, 2014 Can you therefore have a “non-retrofocus-like” design? I could not find a correct term for this, hence my coining of the term “prime focus” to mean the foregoing. Wilson When I was involved with such things at work there were three basic terms; Conventional lenses, Telephoto lenses & Retrofocus lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted August 31, 2014 Author Share #83 Posted August 31, 2014 When I was involved with such things at work there were three basic terms; Conventional lenses, Telephoto lenses & Retrofocus lenses. Peter, Just thinking about the example Joerg quoted, the Zeiss 50mm/f2 ZM Planar, as being a non-retrofocal or “conventional” design (and what a great design it is too, with one well known pundit saying he could detect little to no difference between images taken with it and the vastly more expensive new 50mm APO Summicron). In the past I have also had the 50mm Contax Planar in f1.7, f1.4 and f1.2 guises. Now the design of these have similarities to the ZM Planar but obviously something has changed to alter the flange focal distance from Leica M, 28.8mm to the 45.5mm of the Contax CX/Y mount. Would I be correct in saying therefore, that the Contax Planars are a retrofocal design? This is because the rear elements of the optical configuration have been specifically set up to move the focal plane backwards. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timde Posted August 31, 2014 Share #84 Posted August 31, 2014 Does anyone have an idea whether Zeiss will announce or even supply the long awaited new lens for Leica M? Regards, Siriuslux I get the impression that Zeiss has moved on ... they are doing interesting things with Sony and have a rumored new range of manual focus lenses for the E-Mount (Loxia). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted August 31, 2014 Author Share #85 Posted August 31, 2014 I get the impression that Zeiss has moved on ... they are doing interesting things with Sony and have a rumored new range of manual focus lenses for the E-Mount (Loxia). It goes to show that CEO’s should learn to engage their brain prior to starting their mouths. Nothing irritates people more than being gee’d up for an important announcement only to be disappointed (Leica C - even though I have now bought one for my wife) or nothing happens at all, like the non-existent ZM lens. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted August 31, 2014 Share #86 Posted August 31, 2014 I suspect the ZM lens sales have decreased considerably when Leica lens inventories improved. It seems many bought Zeiss when they couldn't conveniently find the Leica lens they really wanted. Now that Leica are in the dealers it makes the market less appealing to Zeiss. Most who buy Leica want all Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted August 31, 2014 Author Share #87 Posted August 31, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) I actually bought my ZM Planar after two bad 50 Summicrons. One was just plain soft and the other had an incorrectly ground RF cam. I should have wondered why they were both for sale soon after being new. I bought my 25 Biogon, as it was slightly more rectilinear than the 24 Elmarit, which as I was using it at the time mainly for Yacht interiors, saved me PP work. I think the sales of ZM lenses have dropped off because the range of lenses has not been extended other than a couple of pancake models and the existing lenses have never been updated or improved. The 35/f2 Biogon needs its wide open performance improving and the range needs more fast lenses other than the specialist 50 Sonnar. The 15mm is I believe no longer made although stocks remain and the fast 85mm was dropped some time ago. If they really wanted to surprise and delight the market, they should introduce an M fit 28-75 f4 zoom for the M240. I think that could sell like hot cakes. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indergaard Posted August 31, 2014 Share #88 Posted August 31, 2014 I get the impression that Zeiss has moved on ... they are doing interesting things with Sony and have a rumored new range of manual focus lenses for the E-Mount (Loxia). Yup - all of these lenses are apparently going to ship within the next 16 months: 2014: Zeiss FE 16-35 F4 ZA OSS Zeiss FE 85mm F1.8 ZA OSS Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA Zeiss FE 24mm F2.0 ZA 2015: Zeiss FE 135mm F2.0 ZA Zeiss FE 21mm F2.8 ZA Zeiss FE 50mm F1.2 ZA They are all proper Zeiss lenses too, not Zeiss branded Sony lenses (like the FE 55mm F1.8 for example). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted August 31, 2014 Author Share #89 Posted August 31, 2014 I suppose since the Zeiss Ikon camera is no longer made, they may feel that part of the raison d’être for the ZM range has disappeared. As a company Zeiss seems to change its mind and direction more than most and have very little staying power. Typical I suppose of a company that is run by committees rather than having someone with vision at the helm. Just to give an example, I needed a new lens for my Zeiss vari-focal polarised prescription glasses, after one lens was scratched by a flying stone from a strimmer/brush cutter (very glad I was wearing glasses as the ricochetting stone came flying up underneath the safety visor). The lenses were only 4 months old and when I originally bought them, the lenses were a new formula from Zeiss. Four months later they had dropped the lens I had bought and changed it for a new formula again. Luckily the Boots Opticians’ insurance agreed to pay up for both lenses to be replaced with the new formula. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted August 31, 2014 Share #90 Posted August 31, 2014 I suppose since the Zeiss Ikon camera is no longer made, they may feel that part of the raison d’être for the ZM range has disappeared. As a company Zeiss seems to change its mind and direction more than most and have very little staying power. Typical I suppose of a company that is run by committees rather than having someone with vision at the helm. Just to give an example, I needed a new lens for my Zeiss vari-focal polarised prescription glasses, after one lens was scratched by a flying stone from a strimmer/brush cutter (very glad I was wearing glasses as the ricochetting stone came flying up underneath the safety visor). The lenses were only 4 months old and when I originally bought them, the lenses were a new formula from Zeiss. Four months later they had dropped the lens I had bought and changed it for a new formula again. Luckily the Boots Opticians’ insurance agreed to pay up for both lenses to be replaced with the new formula. Wilson If I told you the effort was realigned towards Touit and Autofocus lenses due to anticipated sales volume from the mirrorless crowd would you believe me? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted August 31, 2014 Author Share #91 Posted August 31, 2014 If I told you the effort was realigned towards Touit and Autofocus lenses due to anticipated sales volume from the mirrorless crowd would you believe me? JD, Yes I would believe you and I am sure you are correct until the next fashionable trend comes along, maybe clip on zoom lenses for smart phones. I now see far more people using phones than cameras to take photos. As long as you only want to post selfies on Facebook, Twitter or some “Sleb” website, they probably do just fine. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indergaard Posted August 31, 2014 Share #92 Posted August 31, 2014 If I told you the effort was realigned towards Touit and Autofocus lenses due to anticipated sales volume from the mirrorless crowd would you believe me? The ZA line of lenses for the E-mount is not going to be autofocus lenses. They're all manual lenses with electronic feedback for aperture info to the camera only. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted August 31, 2014 Share #93 Posted August 31, 2014 The ZA line of lenses for the E-mount is not going to be autofocus lenses. They're all manual lenses with electronic feedback for aperture info to the camera only. The ZA zooms and Touit are autofocus. This is where the development money is going. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indergaard Posted August 31, 2014 Share #94 Posted August 31, 2014 The ZA zooms and Touit are autofocus. This is where the development money is going. The ZA zooms are Zeiss-branded but Sony manufactured lenses. The manual lenses (the primes) are in-house Zeiss developments and manufactured (by Cosina probably, though). I would guess that the development money from Zeiss is going into their in-house primes, seeing as there are many more of them compared to zooms down the line. Anyway, the E-mount ZA line-up looks very interesting! If they can make equal or better than ZM quality manual focusing lenses at about the same price point for the A7* platform then they have a winner. Access to cheaper camera bodies that these lenses will be adapted to will result in good sales numbers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted September 1, 2014 Share #95 Posted September 1, 2014 I am quite sure it is not a retrofocus lens since the rear element is behind the bayonett plane (which is 44mm from the sensor) and the focal length is 55mm, so the condition for retrofocus lens (Schnittweite < focal length) is not met. We already have a nice thread about "retrofocus or not" here: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/barnacks-bar/292980-lens-design-terminology-logic-more-moved.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted September 2, 2014 Share #96 Posted September 2, 2014 Do not knock Zeiss for being rudderless. It is the consumers who buy into the stuff camera companies decide to produce. As far as a digital ZM goes, it is of great optical/sensor challenge and they were not willing to make the investment or perhaps the only solution was found and patented by Leica. The best solution would be telecentric wides and they would have to be large. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share #97 Posted September 2, 2014 Tobey, As someone who worked with Zeiss about 10-14 years ago, I can tell you that their photographic division is the most dithering, dilatory and indecisive company, I have even come across. If you look at Zeiss’ history since WW2, when it became a trust run by committees, they have a consistent record of failing to develop product properly (Contax RF’s), being in the wrong market at the wrong time (folding MF cameras), giving up on a product just as the world was starting to use them (Contarex, Contaflex SLR’s), being slow to market and too narrow a range of product (Contax RTS), using the wrong people to make their electronics (Kyocera), failing to listen to their beta testers (Contax ND), dumping the digital G3 and bringing out a new RF film camera, just as the world went digital (Zeiss Ikon) and so on and so on. If they had tossed a coin, they would have made better decisions than the management committee has done. I am a Zeiss enthusiast but sometimes I want to go to Oberkochen and bang their heads against a wall. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted September 2, 2014 Share #98 Posted September 2, 2014 But their lenses are awesome Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share #99 Posted September 2, 2014 But their lenses are awesome I agree, especially the Contax SLR lenses on the M240 and very good value nowadays. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
padam Posted September 2, 2014 Share #100 Posted September 2, 2014 http://blogs.zeiss.com/photo/en/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2014/09/part4.jpg Maybe the one on the right is the new ZM lens? The mount looks similar to the other ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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