50 Cron or Lux for Newbie?

[algrove]

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The first time I used my 50 Cron I was really smitten with the warmth of color it produced as that look is more to my liking. The 50 lux to me does not give me that same feeling of warmth of image.

 

Also with the better ISO with the M240 you can easily over come the 1 stop difference between the two lenses with ISO adjustments.

[Guest borge]

Or from a more pratical standpoint...

 

Do you need to shoot at F/1.4? If yes, you gotta save for the summilux.

If you can get by without shooting F/1.4, stick with the summicron.

 

The biggest difference between these lenses are not the 1 stop of aperture. (f/1.4 vs f/2). The biggest difference is in the rendering characteristics and the "look" that the Summilux gives. The Summicron will always look neutral, but if you want something with more character the Summilux will give it in spades compared to the cron in my opinion.

 

So forget the aperture difference and rather focus on the rendering and signature differences.

 

I have personally used all three (no the APO cron but the latest non-apo), and owned a Summilux 50 ASPH for a while.

I loved the rendering I would get from the Lux wide open. So much so that I sold both my 35 FLE and 50 ASPH and bought a Noctilux 0.95 ASPH and have never been happier (I have to say that I didn't use the 35 FLE at all almost, I don't like it's bokeh characteristics and I strongly prefer the 50mm focal length over 35, which made my decision quite easy compared to if I really liked the 35mm focal length).

[algrove]

The biggest difference between these lenses are not the 1 stop of aperture. (f/1.4 vs f/2). The biggest difference is in the rendering characteristics and the "look" that the Summilux gives. The Summicron will always look neutral, but if you want something with more character the Summilux will give it in spades compared to the cron in my opinion.

 

So forget the aperture difference and rather focus on the rendering and signature differences.

 

I have personally used all three (no the APO cron but the latest non-apo), and owned a Summilux 50 ASPH for a while.

I loved the rendering I would get from the Lux wide open. So much so that I sold both my 35 FLE and 50 ASPH and bought a Noctilux 0.95 ASPH and have never been happier (I have to say that I didn't use the 35 FLE at all almost, I don't like it's bokeh characteristics and I strongly prefer the 50mm focal length over 35, which made my decision quite easy compared to if I really liked the 35mm focal length).

 

To be clear which lens due you mean by "non-apo"? Do you mean the 50/2 #11826 -non-ASPH or the 50/1.4 pre-ASPH #11868? Not being critical just want to understand which lens you kept after buying your Noctilux. Thanks.

[Jeff S]

The biggest difference between these lenses are not the 1 stop of aperture. (f/1.4 vs f/2). The biggest difference is in the rendering characteristics and the "look" that the Summilux gives. The Summicron will always look neutral, but if you want something with more character the Summilux will give it in spades compared to the cron in my opinion.

 

And if I showed you 50 anonymously printed photos using a sampling of each, you'd be correct as often as anything else dealing with pure chance.

 

To the OP...only way to know is to use them....shooting your own pics, and printing them using your own controlled workflow. You can rent lenses here, or borrow from a dealer.

 

Jeff

[Guest borge]

To be clear which lens due you mean by "non-apo"? Do you mean the 50/2 #11826 -non-ASPH or the 50/1.4 pre-ASPH #11868? Not being critical just want to understand which lens you kept after buying your Noctilux. Thanks.

 

Summicron non-apo. The Summilux is not branded as an APO lens (even though it technically is) so I would never refer to it as a apo

 

I kept none but the new one.

[Guest borge]

And if I showed you 50 anonymously printed photos using a sampling of each, you'd be correct as often as anything else dealing with pure chance.

 

To the OP...only way to know is to use them....shooting your own pics, and printing them using your own controlled workflow. You can rent lenses here, or borrow from a dealer.

 

Jeff

 

If they were shot at f/2 and up, then yes, maybe. Although I can see the difference between a Summilux ASPH and Summicron shot at f/2. I have shot the same scenes side-by-side with both lenses and the rendering difference is there.

 

If the Summilux was shot wide open it would be very easy to spot the difference. At f/4 and up it would be almost impossible, of course.

My point is that the question between the summilux and summicron should not be "do you NEED f/1.4?". But rather, do you want the look that the Summilux gives at f/1.4 which the Summicron can't give?

[Jeff S]

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I'll stand with my comment.

 

BTW, your first sentence is particularly funny, given that you said the extra stop isn't the distinguishing factor.

 

Jeff

[IkarusJohn]

Mike,

 

I started with a 35 Cron, added the 75 Cron, then got completely taken by the 50 Summilux ASPH. It remains one of my favourite lenses.

 

If you want a more detailed review of the 50 Cron, head over to Thorsten von Overgaard's site. His preferred 50mm lenses are the Summicron and the Noctilux - he might give you an alternative perspective.

 

Having both the Summilux and the Noctilux (and the Summitar), I have no need for the Summicron (either version).

 

The first image below is taken with the Summilux ASPH, the second the Noctilux (both with the M9).

 

Cheers

John

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[Mike Lavigne]

The biggest difference between these lenses are not the 1 stop of aperture. (f/1.4 vs f/2). The biggest difference is in the rendering characteristics and the "look" that the Summilux gives. The Summicron will always look neutral, but if you want something with more character the Summilux will give it in spades compared to the cron in my opinion.

 

So forget the aperture difference and rather focus on the rendering and signature differences.

 

I have personally used all three (no the APO cron but the latest non-apo), and owned a Summilux 50 ASPH for a while.

I loved the rendering I would get from the Lux wide open. So much so that I sold both my 35 FLE and 50 ASPH and bought a Noctilux 0.95 ASPH and have never been happier (I have to say that I didn't use the 35 FLE at all almost, I don't like it's bokeh characteristics and I strongly prefer the 50mm focal length over 35, which made my decision quite easy compared to if I really liked the 35mm focal length).

 

thanks.

 

you are tempting me to throw caution to the wind and sell out for the Noctilux. or at the very least go for the 50 ASPH. i might even return the 50/f2, and then trade the 35 FLE back for a Noct. it's hard to deny the magic of what that lens does. looking at the pictures the weight and size of the lens seems less significant.

 

enjoyed the linked pics. very nice.

[Mike Lavigne]

 

To the OP...only way to know is to use them....shooting your own pics, and printing them using your own controlled workflow. You can rent lenses here, or borrow from a dealer.

 

Jeff

 

Jeff,

 

thanks,

 

your advice is spot on...except....as a newbie to this stuff it's going to be awhile before i'm going to be able to really understand what i'm doing enough to judge properly. i'm going to have to 'grow' into whatever lens i own until i can connect the dots. i could rent a few lenses but i don't think i can do them justice right now. it's the path i've choosen. maybe not ideal.

 

i have a 'workflow', but it is pathetic. i'm working on getting that up to speed too.

 

a better way would be to start slow and work my way up to this level of gear so i'm better equiped to judge for myself. but that's not the path i'm on. i'm jumping into the deep end and so i'm having to rely on other's perspectives. i'm not defending my approach, just explaining.

[01af]

... you are tempting me to throw caution to the wind and sell out for the Noctilux.

Owning a Summilux-M 50/1.4 Asph (which I am very happy with), I resisted the Noctilux-M 50/0.95 Asph's siren call for almost two years before I surrendered. A couple of days later, the price went up by 500 Euros ... and half a year later, another 500 Euros. Never regretted the purchase for a single minute.

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike,

 

I started with a 35 Cron, added the 75 Cron, then got completely taken by the 50 Summilux ASPH. It remains one of my favourite lenses.

 

If you want a more detailed review of the 50 Cron, head over to Thorsten von Overgaard's site. His preferred 50mm lenses are the Summicron and the Noctilux - he might give you an alternative perspective.

 

Having both the Summilux and the Noctilux (and the Summitar), I have no need for the Summicron (either version).

 

The first image below is taken with the Summilux ASPH, the second the Noctilux (both with the M9).

 

Cheers

John

 

beautiful pictures. lots of love in those.

 

i've read Thorsten's reviews on both the 50 f/1.4 ALPH and the 0.95 Noctilux a couple of times. they are part of my thinking direction already.

[algrove]

Mike

 

I can tell you have developed a real bad case of GAS. I feel sorry for you.

[Jeff S]

i have a 'workflow', but it is pathetic. i'm working on getting that up to speed too.

 

Each person has his/her own path, and the good news is that you seem to have a good perspective on things. I'll just add that, since I switched to digital 5 years ago (after 40+ years with film and darkrooms), I have gained FAR more benefits in terms of print quality by myriad tweaks to my workflow (software, hardware, materials and techniques) following the actual picture taking than I have from any camera or lens change. This includes papers, inks, profiles, LR improvements, and lots more, all of which cost far less than the Leica gear. No different than my film days.

 

One step at a time. You'll grow into your gear. My suggestion, though, is that once you buy it, just stick with it for a while, and spend your time on the rest of the process (including, of course, the picture part) rather than endlessly chasing more gear. The forum is a bad place for those lacking conviction to hang out.

 

Jeff

[Guest borge]

I'll stand with my comment.

 

BTW, your first sentence is particularly funny, given that you said the extra stop isn't the distinguishing factor.

 

Jeff

 

The extra stop isn't the distinguishing factor in regards to one extra stop of light gathering capabilities.

Yes, you get one extra stop of light. But the rendering that extra stop offers is more significant than the extra stop of light.

[Guest borge]

thanks.

 

you are tempting me to throw caution to the wind and sell out for the Noctilux. or at the very least go for the 50 ASPH. i might even return the 50/f2, and then trade the 35 FLE back for a Noct. it's hard to deny the magic of what that lens does. looking at the pictures the weight and size of the lens seems less significant.

 

enjoyed the linked pics. very nice.

 

Sorry, didn't mean to tempt you. I wouldn't start with the Noctilux as my first 50mm.

 

I tried the Summicron for about a month before I decided not to buy it (from a friend that loaned it to me for free). I found it to flare very easily, and many shots were ruined because of the flare and ghosting which seemed to happened in situations that I have never experienced flare or ghosting previously - with any lens. And the lens was mint. There was nothing wrong with it. If you search around you will find that this is a common issue with the Summicron.

 

So I decided to purchase the Summilux. The unwated flare and ghosting was the main reason: not the extra stop of light or the signature that the lens offers. I quickly became addicted to shooting wide open, though. The 50 ASPH and 35 FLE together almost costs the same as Noctilux, so I sold both and got a Noct since I never used the 35 FLE anyway since I just don't like that lens. Couldn't be happier.

 

The Noct is my only lens at the moment, and I don't see the need for any other 50mm at all. It's not that big and heavy. Just get a comfortable strap and you won't really notice that much of a difference. And by comfortable strap I don't mean those thin and flat leather straps with sharp edges that dig in to your neck - which seems to be very popular in the Leica community

 

But then again, I wouldn't start with a Nocti. It's not everyone's cup of tea. And it's by no means a perfect lens at all. The purple fringing caused by this lens when shot wide open is just horrible. It's easy to fix though, but the Summilux is better in this regard. You can stop the Noct down of course to minimize it, but... why?

 

If you have the possibility to rent these lenses and compare them, I would advise you to do that.

 

Good luck with your choice!

[IkarusJohn]

The title to this thread, and Mike's comments since, and Borge's about starting with a Noctilux, have been bothering me a bit.

 

You slap a lens on your camera, and no aperture ring or focus ring is any harder to turn than another - they don't require particular expertise.* Similarly, the Noct works well at all apertures, provided you understand the difficulty of working with a very shallow depth of field (as I've posted elsewhere, not as shallow as the AA Summicron 90 wide open, and about the same as the AA Summicron 75 and a host of other lenses) and chromatic aberration wide open, and diffusion if you stop down too far. In general terms, the Noct is a lot like the Summilulx once you get past about f/2.

 

I guess what I'm saying is buy what you can afford and what you like the look of. A Super-Elmar, Elmarit or Summicron is no easier or harder than its Summilux equivalent. You understand focal length - get the lens with the rendering you like the most.

 

Weight and size is an issue for some - it isn't for me. Besides, Leica glass does tend to hold its value, and Leica does keep rorting its customers by putting the price up (actually, to be fair, part of the reason for putting up the price, I suspect, is to put pressure on the HK grey market).

 

Cheers

John

 

*Actually, some find the focussing ring on the 50 Summilux ASPH stiff because it is an FLE lens, and some also find the short throw lenses like the AA Summicron 75 and APO Summicron 50 hard to focus. Despite its reputation, I didn't get on with the 75 Summicron, but I love the 75 Summilux and AA 90 Summicron - each has a longer throw.

[tobey bilek]

1.4 is better at 2.0, nicer bokeh, render like my 75 Summicron. Nice balance of qualities. This will be another 40 year design.

[Mike Lavigne]

The title to this thread, and Mike's comments since, and Borge's about starting with a Noctilux, have been bothering me a bit.

 

in what way 'bothering'?

 

You slap a lens on your camera, and no aperture ring or focus ring is any harder to turn than another - they don't require particular expertise.* Similarly, the Noct works well at all apertures, provided you understand the difficulty of working with a very shallow depth of field (as I've posted elsewhere, not as shallow as the AA Summicron 90 wide open, and about the same as the AA Summicron 75 and a host of other lenses) and chromatic aberration wide open, and diffusion if you stop down too far. In general terms, the Noct is a lot like the Summilulx once you get past about f/2.

 

good feedback.

 

I guess what I'm saying is buy what you can afford and what you like the look of.

 

well said. and what I will likely do.....whether the 50 Summilux or Noctilux? they both have the look.

 

A Super-Elmar, Elmarit or Summicron is no easier or harder than its Summilux equivalent. You understand focal length - get the lens with the rendering you like the most.

 

yes. my mind keeps coming back to this.....'the rendering you like the most' at the expense of practical considerations.

 

Weight and size is an issue for some - it isn't for me.

 

it will be harder to get use to using, but I can live with that.

 

Besides, Leica glass does tend to hold its value, and Leica does keep rorting its customers by putting the price up (actually, to be fair, part of the reason for putting up the price, I suspect, is to put pressure on the HK grey market).

 

Cheers

John

 

*Actually, some find the focussing ring on the 50 Summilux ASPH stiff because it is an FLE lens, and some also find the short throw lenses like the AA Summicron 75 and APO Summicron 50 hard to focus. Despite its reputation, I didn't get on with the 75 Summicron, but I love the 75 Summilux and AA 90 Summicron - each has a longer throw.

 

thanks John.

 

very timely and helpful comments.

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[Guest borge]

*Actually, some find the focussing ring on the 50 Summilux ASPH stiff because it is an FLE lens, and some also find the short throw lenses like the AA Summicron 75 and APO Summicron 50 hard to focus. Despite its reputation, I didn't get on with the 75 Summicron, but I love the 75 Summilux and AA 90 Summicron - each has a longer throw.

 

My Summilux focusing ring was a bit stiff and "grippy" when I got it.

I sent it in and got it adjusted, and it came back from Solms buttery smooth.

 

The Summicron was much more ergonomic. Easier to focus. Larger focusing grip (I am one of those that actually don't like using the tabs for focusing as I find it to be very unprecise compared to twisting the barrel itself). In reality it is easier to precisely focus the nocti at 0.95 than it is to focus the summilux at 1.4 due to the throw and ergonomic design. That's my only gripe with the lux. Other than that it's a superb lens on all accounts. And the Summicron is a breeze to focus.