Paul J Posted November 6, 2013 Share #21 Posted November 6, 2013 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Point taken about the lenses and adapters. While I subscribe to a back up camera, it seems in this instance that the cost of Leica does not make it so easy to have a back up. It would be nice if you could rely on the body to work reliably in the same way a Canon or Nikon is made. ie. With strength. My Canons have worked faultlessly for 7 years of ridiculously heavy use. Never needing any attention, never needing a warranty extension all for a fraction of the cost. THey work and you can rely on them. My Leica has needed to be sent off to be repaired twice in two years. Electronically and structurally delicate with rangefinder calibration dropping out, the USB port fell out, the sensor has been replaced, the lack or a decent SD card slot with adequate shielding has been problematic, the expensive batteries, that are not that old are problematic and cause corruptions and lock ups. The camera experiences frequent lock ups for a bunch of reasons it seems sometimes if it just wants to. There is no way I would ever rely on Leica which is ridiculous given the amount of money we spend on them. It has let me down on the job on one occasion which proved messy and then there's the warranty service turnaround which is also unreliable and too lengthy. And now the temperature issues? And £5K lenses that fog? Gimme a break. You feel that chunky brass top plate and bottom plate and you feel like they are built like a tank but they are not. They are fragile and flimsy underneath and you need to treat them with great care. And even then you are likely to face problems (in my experience at least) It's not all bad, I have three systems and 4-5 bodies in my bag but the Leica gets the most use because I love the pictures from it's lenses. THey are totally unique and I do love them. I also love the user experience. But the reliability makes them very temperamental and untrustworthy and I don't buy this whole "that's trust the way they are because they are hand made" "they are like a mistress" "they are like a high performance sports car that breaks down" it's a small electric device that costs a fortune and Leica need to work on their reliability and create structurally and electronic sound products because the nice pictures and user experience sometimes just aren't enough. These should be tools that people can rely on just like cameras such as Canon etc that cost a small faction of the cost. I do worry about the long term reliability of these cameras and In my experience, I have either been unlucky or the cameras are not up to the task of heavy use. The €290 warranty extension is mandatory making the cost of the camera even more over long term. So owning this camera for 7 years costs another €1450 on top. As you can see it's a bit of a sore point! Edited November 6, 2013 by Paul J 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 6, 2013 Posted November 6, 2013 Hi Paul J, Take a look here First M only event. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
01af Posted November 6, 2013 Share #22 Posted November 6, 2013 So far I used my M on four major events (or five, depending on how to define 'major'). Fired several hundred frames on each, and 1,100 on one of them. Also used the EVF occasionally, and (gasp!) video once. Absolutely no let-downs whatsoever. Always carry my M9 as a back-up but haven't touched it once. So maybe you've got a lemon ... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted November 6, 2013 Share #23 Posted November 6, 2013 The €290 warranty extension is mandatory making the cost of the camera even more over long term. So owning this camera for 7 years costs another €1450 on top. As you can see it's a bit of a sore point! I didn't know that the warranty could be extended for more than one additional year. That is my understanding anyway. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted November 6, 2013 Share #24 Posted November 6, 2013 I didn't know that the warranty could be extended for more than one additional year. That is my understanding anyway. Oh. Oh dear. Well thanks for letting me know but that is a worry. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pieterpronk Posted November 6, 2013 Share #25 Posted November 6, 2013 As with the temperature problem thread, this obviously is not Leica's problem or fault. It's either the use of non-Leica lenses (obviously this is begging for problems) or the photographer's fault for taking a precious Leica camera outside it's safe-zone of relaxed personal travel photography or if one is really cutting edge, "street photography". At least bring two more noctilux equipped Leica camera's when you're doing something as hazardous and challenging environment as a charity concert. I think Leica should put this in the manual: please use a real camera if getting results is important to you. But seriously this is quite a sad and ugly account of the performance of the "Milestone" camera, and most of the disappointment seems to be directed at the photographer? With this additude of it's customers it's no wonder Leica keeps making camera's with bugs. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted November 6, 2013 Share #26 Posted November 6, 2013 I didn't know that the warranty could be extended for more than one additional year. As far as I know, it cannot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted November 6, 2013 Share #27 Posted November 6, 2013 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) It's possible I have a melon. I actually hope I do because I love the system, but I have my doubts. After 2 years of heavy use I am not left with the impression, with experience, that these cameras are up to the task. I will keep trying for now and keep my spare cameras with me but I hope I have better luck on my next body and I hope the new M is more ruggedly constructed and electronically stable. There's an increasing amount of feedback in the forum that suggest otherwise though. It's tricky because I don't actually want to shoot another system. Edited November 6, 2013 by Paul J Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted November 6, 2013 Share #28 Posted November 6, 2013 The AF of the A7r may be disappointing in this type of situation. How so? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Essemmlee Posted November 6, 2013 Share #29 Posted November 6, 2013 It's interesting that we only ever get to hear about the problems with the Leica M gear on here. I've owned an M8. M8.2, M9, Monochrom and a(n) M240. To date I have not had a single problem with any of them. No lock ups, no missing pixels, no SD card issues; nothing at all. I read these posts with wonderment at all of the problems but no matter how I try I just can't get one;) I did have a slight issue with the strap provided with the Monochrom but Leica sent a new one in days. I believe there are very many more owners without problems than those with. However I accept the OP had a problem at the concert, which shouldn't have happened with any modern camera. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted November 6, 2013 Share #30 Posted November 6, 2013 How often do you shoot with the cameras Essemmlee? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted November 6, 2013 Share #31 Posted November 6, 2013 Oh. Oh dear. Well thanks for letting me know but that is a worry. One year is all they offer, I do believe. Also your €290 is for the M9. M9P=€299. M-E=€480. And the most expensive and last on the list as of yesterday for a one year warranty extension the Monochrom=€680! I asked last week if the M240 will be added to the list and the price. No reply as of yet. Maybe since there have been so many problems on this M (and continue to be many unresolved problems) that a one year warranty extension will cost $6950 (the price of a new camera). 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted November 6, 2013 Share #32 Posted November 6, 2013 It's possible I have a melon. I actually hope I do because I love the system, but I have my doubts. After 2 years of heavy use I am not left with the impression, with experience, that these cameras are up to the task. I will keep trying for now and keep my spare cameras with me but I hope I have better luck on my next body and I hope the new M is more ruggedly constructed and electronically stable. There's an increasing amount of feedback in the forum that suggest otherwise though. It's tricky because I don't actually want to shoot another system. If you have a lemon, then I have 4 lemons so far. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted November 6, 2013 Share #33 Posted November 6, 2013 (edited) My Grey M9 was a disaster. My black M9-P was tolerable, but not perfect. My M240 has locked up 3 times on me now. I would suggest that "some are ok, some are shit" is still not an acceptable position for a company selling 7000USD cameras. Edited November 6, 2013 by dwbell 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 6, 2013 Share #34 Posted November 6, 2013 So it would be OK for a company selling 3500 $ cameras? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted November 6, 2013 Share #35 Posted November 6, 2013 So it would be OK for a company selling 3500 $ cameras? Please refer to the previous comment on classic Jaap tangential diversion and obfuscation techniques. They no longer interest me. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 6, 2013 Share #36 Posted November 6, 2013 You don't get the point. Price has nothing to do with it. If one sells a product it should work- period. Regardless of price. I find the addition of "for a 7000 $ camera" a bit silly. For some folks - not me- that is cheap. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted November 6, 2013 Share #37 Posted November 6, 2013 (edited) I think Jaap is saying it shouldn't even happen for a $3500 camera. Edited November 6, 2013 by Paul J Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted November 6, 2013 Share #38 Posted November 6, 2013 It's interesting that we only ever get to hear about the problems with the Leica M gear on here. I've owned an M8. M8.2, M9, Monochrom and a(n) M240. To date I have not had a single problem with any of them. No lock ups, no missing pixels, no SD card issues; nothing at all. I read these posts with wonderment at all of the problems but no matter how I try I just can't get one;) I did have a slight issue with the strap provided with the Monochrom but Leica sent a new one in days. I believe there are very many more owners without problems than those with. However I accept the OP had a problem at the concert, which shouldn't have happened with any modern camera. Perhaps you should read the VERY MANY THREADS about lockups, lug nut replacement, initial color output problems on the M240. Early M9's had similar issues with color problems and then there were cracked sensors and still are. I sent my MM into service for a cleaning because of streaks on images since I do not clean my sensors myself and they found the Monochrom sensor was cracked and had to be replaced. I guess you are in the minority since you have only had a strap replaced. Are you a collector who looks at his gear and seldom takes photos or are you a heavy user like many of us here? I have over 36k exposures on my M9P and have not used it for nearly over a year now. Between my first two M240, I put 13k exposures on them in 6 months. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted November 6, 2013 Share #39 Posted November 6, 2013 You don't get the point. Price has nothing to do with it. If one sells a product it should work- period. Regardless of price. I find the addition of "for a 7000 $ camera" a bit silly. For some folks - not me- that is cheap. You know the bit where I said "I'm no longer interested"? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted November 6, 2013 Share #40 Posted November 6, 2013 (edited) If one sells a product it should work- period. Regardless of price. . That is the point they DO NOT work-period. Sure I can trip the shutter, but not always so to me that does NOT count as working without qualification like your quote "If one sells a product it should work-period". I have $500 P&S cameras that work better than the M240 according to your definition-period. Sure one can get a lemon from time to time, but I am on my 4th M240 and so far they all misbehave by having shutter lockup mostly with and sometimes without EVF. I even had it happen in the Solms showroom while taking an image of the huge $1million R lens. Maybe that money would have been better saved and then spent on M240 R&D, QC, QA or whatever you want to call it. Edited November 6, 2013 by algrove Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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