Leica stubborness will hurt sales

[jaapv]

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Francisco - What really is boring is when you and others adopt an air of intellectual superiority over those of us who simply can't comprehend the wisdom of the position you take in a polarised discussion. The reality is that actually we all understand your position because it is easy to understand, those of us adopting a view opposed to yours just fundamentally disagree agree with your views. Personally I think your opinions given in this thread are bad for Leica's business, and bad for Leica M8 customers, does this make me stupid for not sharing your outlook? Maybe I cannot draw on the immediate resources that others can to pay the Leica wide angle tax on a full set of exclusively Leica wide angle lenses, should I or others in a similar position be discouraged from expanding the M8 user base?

 

Thirty years ago I could not afford to get into the Leica system, and because of equipment decisions I made then, none of my extensive equipment expenditure in the last thirty years went to Leica.

 

..................Chris

 

Come on, Chris, lets not get personal. Without disagreement aforum has no point

 

Walther Adler I noticed had a great motto with his post:

 

Gerade weil alle im selben Boot sitzen, dürfen sie nicht auf derselben Seite sein.

 

Precisely because we are in the same boat, we cannot sit all on the same side.

[sdai]

Precisely because we are in the same boat, we cannot sit all on the same side.

 

I should have waited for a sec before I submitted my last post, Jaap. That's a great reminder. LOL

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[terrycioni]

What I am doing is writing Zeiss and CV to see if they have given any consideration to the whole coding issue - perhaps talking with Leica AG about licensing the coding of their lens for use on the M8 and or future Leica M bodies.

 

I realize this does not address the older Leica lenses we all love but a starting point none the less. Recently CV modified their Nokton 35mm F1.2 to better work on the M8 - and they say the upgrade is free (but for shipping) to those who currently own the lens. So there is acknowledgment by CV that the M8 has special needs

 

I wonder if both are looking at branding their own Digital RF bodies and if so, they will likely not be to worried about accommodating the M8. My guess is the M8 has created additional sales for both companies....and they are watching this with some interest. If Leica software codes lenses Zeiss/CV will save any additional cost to their bottom-line(s).

 

It is all so much fun! PAX to all.

 

Cheers. Terry.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Terry I think this is a good idea and said this awhile back at least ask them and get some feedback so we know were we stand on it. Can't hurt to ask, thanks for making the effort

[LJL]

Terry,

Good luck wiht your efforts, and please do keep us informed. I would love to see CV come up with a simple solution to allow more of their lenses to be used. I have the CV 35/1.2 Nokton, coded it first try, and it works wonderfully. Very nice lens. Seems like CV could go back to creating screw mount adapters without the cutout, or with an elongated depression where the coding would go, and leave it to folks to fill with paint. (Individual wells, like John Milich is considering would be ideal...)

 

With respect to Zeiss....I have a sample set of one to talk from. I got a replacement mount from Zeiss for my ZM 25/2.8. The replacement mount brings up the 24/35 framelines on the M8, rather than the 28/90 framelines. Works like a charm. The only caveat is that this mount, and I suspect all Zeiss ZM mounts have a screw directly in the area for all coding needed for the M8. I was able to cover that screw with some white enamel paint, and it works. Not as elegant as nicely machined wells again, but serviceable. Zeiss would have to redesign the mount to move the screw, and the all lenses for that mount would have to be redrilled for the new mount screw also. As I said, only a single data point, but I suspect it is common for the ZM mount.

 

Would love to know otherwise, and if there is some movement by CV and Zeiss toward making replacement part for their lenses that are more "M8 code-friendly". Would be great.

 

LJ

[larry]

Terry,

 

My hat's off to you for your constructive effort.

 

Larry

[FMB]

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Francisco - What really is boring is when you and others adopt an air of intellectual superiority over those of us who simply can't comprehend the wisdom of the position you take in a polarised discussion. The reality is that actually we all understand your position because it is easy to understand, those of us adopting a view opposed to yours just fundamentally disagree agree with your views. Personally I think your opinions given in this thread are bad for Leica's business, and bad for Leica M8 customers, does this make me stupid for not sharing your outlook? Maybe I cannot draw on the immediate resources that others can to pay the Leica wide angle tax on a full set of exclusively Leica wide angle lenses, should I or others in a similar position be discouraged from expanding the M8 user base?

 

Thirty years ago I could not afford to get into the Leica system, and because of equipment decisions I made then, none of my extensive equipment expenditure in the last thirty years went to Leica.

 

..................Chris

 

I'm grateful for your opinion about me and my arguments,

 

Francisco.

[FMB]

So after 338 posts in this thread, many of you jumped the gun and hit the reply button don't even have a clue to what's going on and what the matter is about LOL

 

May I kindly suggest you do not reply if:

 

1. You're absolutely happy with what you have now;

2. You don't understand what the coding is for and how it works

3. why CV and ZM can't/won't code their lenses

4. you only use the latest and greatest asph lenses

 

?

 

If you're bored go grab a beer or coffee ... how hard is that?

 

Thank you for your advice. I'll do.

 

Francisco.

[ChrisC]

Come on, Chris, lets not get personal. Without disagreement aforum has no point

 

Jaap - Thank you for your reprimand. Perhaps if you go back and re-read Francisco's post No. 335 you might sense, like I did, that he was being emphatic,superior, and bellicose, and had decided to withdraw from the thread because those of us who disagree with him do not 'understand' him. That was too lofty for my taste precisely because a forum is a place for healthy disagreement; so I made my first post in this lengthy thread which I have mostly found interesting. Rather than being 'personal', as you suggest, I thought the gist of my post suggested support for a range of expressed views; it's the diversity of views expressed in this forum that makes it so educational for me. I thought you might know that, so maybe I have expressed myself poorly.

 

..................Chris

[sean_reid]

Hi,

 

I guess everybody is bored by now....

 

What I don't understand is why people are only knocking on LEICA, asking to "open" the coding for others as well.

 

Would it not be more logic to ask CV and Zeiss to help with the coding?

 

CV could easily make a new adapter with the correct coding space. They only need to recess the area, so a Sharpie coding would not go away or they leave space for a sticker with the correct coding.

On M-mount lenses CV or Zeiss could also add the recessed area for hand coding and everyboy would be happy.

 

In my opinion the support should come from the manufacturer who wants to have the best performance on the M8. Just modifying the mount is by far easier and more logic than writing a new firmware and it would come from the right part of the market.

 

 

So what's about writing to CV now?? Or contacting Zeiss???

 

Best regards

 

Karl-Heinz Fink

 

Hi Karl-Heinz,

 

Once again, companies other than Leica are not currently at liberty to use the 6-bit code in their products.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[sean_reid]

What I am doing is writing Zeiss and CV to see if they have given any consideration to the whole coding issue - perhaps talking with Leica AG about licensing the coding of their lens for use on the M8 and or future Leica M bodies.

 

I realize this does not address the older Leica lenses we all love but a starting point none the less. Recently CV modified their Nokton 35mm F1.2 to better work on the M8 - and they say the upgrade is free (but for shipping) to those who currently own the lens. So there is acknowledgment by CV that the M8 has special needs

 

I wonder if both are looking at branding their own Digital RF bodies and if so, they will likely not be to worried about accommodating the M8. My guess is the M8 has created additional sales for both companies....and they are watching this with some interest. If Leica software codes lenses Zeiss/CV will save any additional cost to their bottom-line(s).

 

It is all so much fun! PAX to all.

 

Cheers. Terry.

 

Hi Terry,

 

I appreciate the thought and the effort but, as I've posted many times, CV and Zeiss are not currently at liberty to use Leica's 6-bit coding. Needless to say, this is something I began discussing with the various companies late last summer.

 

Best,

 

Sean

[sean_reid]

Terry I think this is a good idea and said this awhile back at least ask them and get some feedback so we know were we stand on it. Can't hurt to ask, thanks for making the effort

 

This was all done a long time ago. I've begun to wonder if I've been typing in invisible ink and don't know it. <G>

 

Best,

 

Sean

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Heck i have no memory. LOL

[jaapv]

Hi Karl-Heinz,

 

Once again, companies other than Leica are not currently at liberty to use the 6-bit code in their products.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

That is clear, Sean, but nobody is stopping them to make it easy for their customers to do their own coding, for instance making a depressed part in the flange where model paint can be applied without wearing off, or extending their adapter so a bit of private Dremel Tool work will create a code...

[finkaudio]

Hi Karl-Heinz,

 

Once again, companies other than Leica are not currently at liberty to use the 6-bit code in their products.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

Dear Sean,

 

they don't have to . I know that it is not legal to code a lens, but why should it not be possible to add a recessed area? The problem with the Sharpie is that is goes away very easy. If the coding area would be slightly recessed, everybody could use a Sharpie and a sticker to play with it. Just leaving a recess in a mount should not be dangerous.

 

Look at my modified adapter:

 

 

This was my fist try and we did it far too deep. The recess only needs to be deep enough to take a sticker or carry the Sharpie markings without touching the mount surface on the camera.

 

So Zeiss or CV only need to add a small modification without any coding. It's still the end user who performs the coding . And the same could be done for the adapter. CV modified the 35mm for the M8 - so what

 

Best regards

 

Karl-Heinz

[finkaudio]

That is clear, Sean, but nobody is stopping them to make it easy for their customers to do their own coding, for instance making a depressed part in the flange where model paint can be applied without wearing off, or extending their adapter so a bit of private Dremel Tool work will create a code...

 

 

 

Mmmh, same thinking :D : , but 4 minutes earlier. But OK, Netherland is closer to the US compared with Germany.

 

ATB

 

KH

[jlm]

help is on the way.

 

see:

http://www.leica-camera-user.com/digital-forum/22041-cv15mm-ir-uv-cut-filter-firm.html

[Guest flatfour]

I think quite the reverse. generally speaking. Protecting a niche market maximises profits. (Maximum profits don't necessarily come from maximum sales.) Leica should be stubborn on this issue.

[sean_reid]

Dear Sean,

 

So Zeiss or CV only need to add a small modification without any coding. It's still the end user who performs the coding . And the same could be done for the adapter. CV modified the 35mm for the M8 - so what

 

Best regards

 

Karl-Heinz

 

Zeiss and CV can make various changes to their lenses that don't relate to the coding. More on the well idea later but I don't see that happening.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[RSL]

I think quite the reverse. generally speaking. Protecting a niche market maximises profits. (Maximum profits don't necessarily come from maximum sales.) Leica should be stubborn on this issue.

 

That's what Steve Jobs thought too... in the beginning.