90mm Elmarit-M or Tele Elmarit or Summicron

[Daniel Halmer]

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Dear Leica community,

 

relatively new to the Leica M world I am thinking about adding a 90mm to my yet small set of glass (50mm Summarit, 35mm Summicron Asph.), especially to take on a 3 months South America trip. I use an M9-P (and a D-Lux 5 as back-up).

 

I read a lot in this forum, blogs, Ken Rockwell/Steve Huff (I know!) etc and my thoughts are as follows:

 

(1) Tele Elmarit (thin) is the smallest and lightest and, therefore, prone to serve as a travel companion.

 

(2) Tele Elmarit is (i) wide open a little bit inferior in terms of optics and (ii) stopped down to f4 equal to the Elmarit M and Summicron but as a relative beginner I will hardly ever notice the difference. (That said, I must say I did see a big difference between a Summaron 35mm/f2.8 and my Summicron 35mm/f2 asph, for whatever that's worth.)

 

(3) The price for a Tele Elmarit in a good condition ranges between EUR 700-1000. My impression is that the price as gone up since 2009.

 

(4) Most reviews say the Elmarit M is better than the Summicron and much smaller and lighter and if the f2.0 isn't absolutely necessary the Elmarit is the better option. We see similar used prices for both.

 

I am not 100% sure how I would use the 90mm but my plan is to not only use it for portraits but also for landscape and street photography (why not).

 

Now, my questions are:

 

(1) Are my thoughts correct?

 

(2) What would you recommend?

 

(3) I have an offer for a Summicron M in good condition and an Elmarit-M (haven't held it in hands but allegedly good condition as well) both for EUR 850. Reasonable?

 

Many thanks.

 

Greetings from Munich

Daniel

[wda]

Since you want it for travel, why not consider the Summarit? You know from your 35mm how good the lenses are. The older lenses will probably need to be coded, whereas I believe all later Summarits already are.

 

Welcome to the forum!

[algrove]

I own all three and some in multiple copies. I discuss 5 90's here.

 

-Best APO Summicron #11884 also like the Pre ASPH #11136

-Next Elmarit-M #11807- I like the size and common filter thread with many other Leica lenses.

-Last Tele-Elmarit #11800 due to is being prone to flare-Must use the long hood #12575.

 

You did not mention the 90/4 Macro which is a superb lens (better than #2 and #3 above IMHO) and ideal for travel since ot collapses to about 35/2 size. It also has the benefit of macro capabilities and comes with a small 90 attachment for the VF which I have found comes in very handy for low lying closeup work.

[Daniel Halmer]

Since you want it for travel, why not consider the Summarit? You know from your 35mm how good the lenses are. The older lenses will probably need to be coded, whereas I believe all later Summarits already are.

 

Welcome to the forum!

 

Thanks! I have a 50mm (not 35mm) Summarit and I must say the build quality appears to be lower than the Summicron. Ken Rockwell doesn't recommend a Summarit at all. Since there are so "authoritative" statements out there I was inclined to believe him...

[Daniel Halmer]

I own all three and some in multiple copies. I discuss 5 90's here.

 

-Best APO Summicron #11884 also like the Pre ASPH #11136

-Next Elmarit-M #11807- I like the size and common filter thread with many other Leica lenses.

-Last Tele-Elmarit #11800 due to is being prone to flare-Must use the long hood #12575.

 

You did not mention the 90/4 Macro which is a superb lens (better than #2 and #3 above IMHO) and ideal for travel since ot collapses to about 35/2 size. It also has the benefit of macro capabilities and comes with a small 90 attachment for the VF which I have found comes in very handy for low lying closeup work.

 

Many thanks! Do I take it you prefer the pre asph. Summicron to the Elmarit M. Is that even considering size and weight? Honestly, do you really see differences in picture quality for any practical purposes?

 

Thanks

Daniel

[250swb]

The Elmarit M wins on weight and size, and balances nicely with the body. Not only that, but it is one of Leica's best lenses. I have no particular fondness for the 90mm generally, but I sold my 90mm Summicron many years ago after realising one day that I couldn't remember when I'd last used it, such was the all round performance of the Elmarit M. It also has a very classic rendering, creamy smooth transition between tones, so very nice for portraits.

 

Steve

[wda]

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Thanks! I have a 50mm (not 35mm) Summarit and I must say the build quality appears to be lower than the Summicron. Ken Rockwell doesn't recommend a Summarit at all. Since there are so "authoritative" statements out there I was inclined to believe him...

Daniel, I think it is unwise to rely on one critic's summaries. LFI and Puts are more positive about the four modern Summarit lenses. Few members here have suffered from poor build quality and reported it. Occasional loose aperture setting ring for example. I have the 75 Summarit which I subsequently 'upgraded' to a coded 90 Elmarit-M for my M9 and agree the latter is superior in build but heavier. Surprisingly I had grown to like my 75mm lens so much (bought for my M8) that I still use it often as a twin to a 35mm lens in a 2-lens light kit for some travel. I would not hesitate to take it when touring.

[01af]

Ken Rockwell doesn't recommend a Summarit at all.

I don't recommend paying attention to Ken Rockwell at all.

 

As a matter of fact, the Summarit-M is the most recommendable 90 mm lens. It's smaller and lighter than the Elmarit-M and all the Summicrons, has the best hood, and performance is slightly better than the Elmarit-M's and only second to the mighty Apo-Summicron-M Asph's, again by a very small margin. In fact, in terms of sharpness the Elmarit-M, Summarit-M, and Apo-Summicron-M Asph are so close to each other you'd need to look very carefully at the results to tell them apart. Only when you desperately need an even smaller and lighter 90 mm lens then you might consider the Tele-Elmarit, the Tele-Elmarit-M, or maybe even the Macro-Elmar-M.

 

Strange how this Ken Rockwell dork was able to blow the Summarit line's reputation with just one single incompetent web article. His website looks very good and his language is straight so this tricks newbees into thinking he was competent. Those who actually own, and use, the Summarit-M lenses usually appreciate them very much, once they get over their styling being slightly different from most other modern M lenses. My first Summarit-M lens was the fantastic 35 mm, and shortly after that, I bought the other three, too. The only reason to prefer other lenses over the Summarits is when you really need lenses faster than 1:2.5.

[pgk]

I have the Elmarit-M which is an extremely good lens and I like using it and it produces excellent images. I have owed Summicrons (not the asph) and I prefer the Elmarit-M in both performance and handling.

 

That said if I didn't have the Elmarit-M I'd probably go for the Summarit. The current Summarits are all modern designs of non-asph lenses with very high performance. Leica's current range of lenses are ALL extremely good and Summarits are anything but cheap despite being amongst Leica's lower cost offerings. I have used 35 and 75 Summarits and both felt very well made and performed very well indeed. I'd be shocked if the 90 wasn't similar in performance terms. 01af's post is worth taking note of.

[luigi bertolotti]

The 90 I use are 2 (owm many others, indeed.. ) :

- Elmarit-M, the last

- Old Tele Elmarit (Not - M)

 

And a Summarit 75

 

Elmarit-M is absolutely excellent at any aperture : no light even if well handling (btw, is the chrome...)

 

Tele Elmarit "dwarf" is THE BEST in handling, carryng etc... not significant differences from the above from f 5,6 on ; not so good at 2,8.

 

Summarit is excellent in IQ... but ny item, after 2 years, has became loose in the front part : its build quality imho is really someway not on Leica standards.

[01af]

Summarit is excellent in image quality ... but my item, after two years, has became loose in the front part—its build quality imho is really someway not on Leica standards.

Just because you had a loose front part!?

 

I keep hearing from loose front parts, whacky 6-bit codes, or screwed-up aperture blades with all kinds of Leica lenses. In particular the Summicron-M 28 mm Asph is notorious for the former issue. Just one or two anecdotal reports are no reason to challenge the Summarits' build quality in general.

[exile]

As a user of an Elmarit-M, I don't see how you could regret spending 850euro on one. The only other 90mm that interests me is the macro elmar, but that is considerably more expensive and of course a stop slower.

 

For travel to South America, I would recommend a wide angle 21-24mm + your 35'cron + the 90mm you end up with, and some insurance to cover at least the camera body and 35'cron.

Enjoy!

[Carduelis]

I would recommend a 90 mm Tele Elmarit thin lens as a lightweight lens (approx 220 g) for travelling and it is possible in the UK to obtain them for about £300-£400 if you shop around, though I do not know what the situation is in continental Europe. I have always used it at f5.6 and above and the sharpness has been very good. I have tended to use it more on my back-up Ricoh GXR camera which effectively gives me a very ergonomically usable and lightweight 135 mm lens. If you do decide to buy one, make sure it is in good condition because there has been issues over etching of lens elements in them.

[jdlaing]

Since you want it for travel, why not consider the Summarit? You know from your 35mm how good the lenses are. The older lenses will probably need to be coded, whereas I believe all later Summarits already are.

 

Welcome to the forum!

 

+1 on the Summarit.

[Carduelis]

Think this link might be of interest:

 

In praise of the smallest M travel kit

[Daniel Halmer]

Many thanks to all who replied and shared their insights. I did consider the Summarit but found it was much more expensive (north of EUR1k) and a bit more bulky than the TE - so I found a TE for EUR 565 and hope the condition will be ok:

 

Leica M 90mm 1:2,8 Tele-Elmarit-M | eBay

 

Best

Daniel

[Guest Emile de Leon]

TE is fine..

I bought one new in 1989..still have it..soft wide open for portraits..small/tiny for a 90..

Mine has some haze now..

so friggin what..

Still takes sharp pics..

For me the perfect 90..

[algrove]

Many thanks! Do I take it you prefer the pre asph. Summicron to the Elmarit M. Is that even considering size and weight? Honestly, do you really see differences in picture quality for any practical purposes?

 

Thanks

Daniel

 

Frankly based on size and weight the 90 Elmarit-M is nearly the perfect 90. Mandler designed it and that I like about it. Slide out hood and E46 filter size just more benefits. For the internet any 90 will do. For large 36x48 prints I would use the APO Cron 90. But how many people print that large? Not many at all.

[tobey bilek]

90 4.0 macro is a gem, starting at F4.0 . Mine is always with me.

 

After that, buy for required speed. Only the 90 2.0 APO seems good on digital. First TE is old and not as good as Elmarit of same vintage. Thin TE from 1980 frequently have element separation and they can not be repaired. Use caution. 2.8 is not razor sharp like newer lenses. 4.0 macro out performs it at all stops. Advantage is TE is cheap.and light.

 

People like the last 90 2.8. I think they are only ok. I know they are soft at close distances as is the thin TE and 90 pre APO and 90 APO. 90 APO needs a redesign with floating elements.

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[Printmaker]

I have both the Elmarit M and a Tele Elmarit. The Tele was my constant companion for about 25 years, riding in a jacket pocket always ready to swap places with my 35 Summicron should the need arise. Then one day I noticed it was getting soft. A slight haze had appeared between the elements. I bought the 90 Elmarit M and was pleasantly surprised at the gain in sharpness and contrast. This new 90 was an absolutely wonderful lens. However, it was too heavy to put in a jacket pocket. So now I am a bag man... unless I trade it for a 90 Summarit... nah, no way. It's too good. Maybe I'll get a Fogg Harp belt pouch for my 90 Elmarit M.