just4fun Posted October 15, 2013 Share #1 Posted October 15, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello, I need your opinion on this issue. I just bought a beautiful 8.5 Summarex f1.5 appear to be in MINT condition, nothing looks bad and I am using it fine on M4/3 for Video. But, when I try with M9, I always have focus shift really bad and NEVER able to get the focus right unless I intentional ship the focus off a bit on the right or left.... Note that my lens is m39 version and I use "both" 50-75 and 28-90 adapters. My question is there another special Adapter for use with that lens? I am not sure the lens need calibration (unlikely) but if it need one, I would like to know what exact adapter should I use with it and I have a feeling neither 50-75 and 28-90 are not right for it... because when I use 90mm frame line, Camera thinks it's a 90mm lens but in reality it's not I remember I had this same problem before with TLM Canon 85mm Serena and gave up buying that lens... Please help! Appreciate any input Regards Sonny Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 Hi just4fun, Take a look here Help with 8.5cm SUMMAREX use with M9. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
UliWer Posted October 15, 2013 Share #2 Posted October 15, 2013 There is no adapter for 85mm but the adapter for 90mm-lenses should do. You have to consider that the viewfinder-frames for 90mm are already too tight for their proper lenses, so just imagine a littel bit more on your photos than the frames show. Exact focus of the lens - normally - has nothing to do with the adpter; even if you use one which does show wrong frames, your focus should work as it is presumed to. Though there are exceptions, since some adapters are not exactly 1mm thick. So I'd recommend to try a second adapter first before you draw any conclusions about the lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted October 15, 2013 Share #3 Posted October 15, 2013 What do you mean with "focus shift"? A 1.5 lens with 85mm is not easy to focus with a pure rangefinder camera. Did you make your test shots using a tripod? Do you know somebody having a camera with live view (M240, Ricoh GXR, NEX)? Is the focus correct at infinity (trees or buildings far away)? Is a second picture unsharp, if you change the focus a minor amount? Does the focus of the picture changes for a subject at a distance of say 1.5 meter, if you only change the f-stop from 1.5 to 2.8 or 4? Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted October 15, 2013 Share #4 Posted October 15, 2013 Focus shift is changing focus going from 1.5 to 4.0 . Or does the lens just simply focus wrong. the latter can be fixed. The former not as many older high speed lenses did this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
just4fun Posted October 15, 2013 Author Share #5 Posted October 15, 2013 Thanks for all the help! Here are the follow up... I did try the lens again today using Adapter with 28-90mm frame. I use tripod and carefully try to get the focus right but the image is still blurry... After the 2 image in the RF mach, I shift the focus to the left a little (few cm) then I get good focus image.Focus at Infinity also looks fine. I also try to change aperture during the test and the focus is still the same (blurry) I went from f1.5 to f4 from 1.5m distance. I use the lens on both my Blackmagic Pocket Camera and Sony Fs700 and do get perfect image via live view. So, Do I need to buy a more expansive Adapter? The one I am using right now look solid, with 6 bit code and made by Fotodiox with Pro grade (more expansive) - The same Adapter works fine with my other LTM lens such as 50mm RadioActive and Newer 50mm summicron SE for Japan market. Thanks again for the the help and response!!! Regards Sonny Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted October 16, 2013 Share #6 Posted October 16, 2013 1. Get yourself a Voigtlander LTM-M adapter (the newer version II or the older version I will work just fine) This adapter is the best and most safe to start from. Depending on which camera you use, I advice either a 50/75 or a 28/90 adapter. On my M8.2, I would use a 28/90. On my M9 and Mono, I would definitely use a 50/75, as this is a better match for the field of view, the lens provides at "normal range" on these cameras, which have calibrated frame sizes for a subject distance at 1m. 2. Verify, that your camera's rangefinder adjustments are good. The easiest way to do so is by using several different fast, modern Leica mount lenses, which are likely to be good (recently purchased Leica lenses or known, verified lenses, …) Test the camera with these lenses at widest aperture close up, at medium range and infinity. Are the photos sharp? 3. Do the same with the Summarex. From what you wrote already and my experience with vintage very fast lenses, it is not unlikely, that you Summarex needs work (re-calibration), but lets just eliminate the other issues first ;-) Another thing to understand is, that an 85/1.5 lens is VERY difficult to focus on a Leica M with the rangefinder. Even when perfectly fit with good eyes, it is not unlikely, that your keeper rate of shots in good focus is significantly lower than with a slower or shorter lens. Always keep this in mind and don't put yourself under pressure. Focussing such a lens with a live view camera is a lot easier, as one can easily examine the factual focus with the magnified view directly from the sensor. In my experience ALL super fast vintage lenses, that moved over my bench needed work, when demanding critical focus on a modern digital M. The needed tolerances for adjustment and our expectations for perfectly sharp pictures Today are simply a lot more demanding than the circumstances these lenses were designed for many decades before. The lens you have is a very interesting one. It definitely can be brought into reliable, fine condition. Don't give up on the lens! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted October 16, 2013 Share #7 Posted October 16, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) 1. Get yourself a Voigtlander LTM-M adapter(the newer version II or the older version I will work just fine) This adapter is the best and most safe to start from. /QUOTE] Menos If the focus at infinity is ok, the problem cannot be the adapter. I suppose, he means the first LTM-Summilux and with the Japan-Cron the one for the IIIg. These lenses seem to be OK too. Is it necessary that the rangefinder mechanism inside the Summarex has to be adjusted? An address in California to do this? Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orient XI Posted October 16, 2013 Share #8 Posted October 16, 2013 I also recently purchased an 85mm Summarex. I append a series of photographs taken from f/1.5 to f5.6. Thesewere taken using an M9 on a monopod with the sensor set at ISO640. The lens was focussed by rangefinder on the spine of The Leica Way ~1.5m (5 feet) distant.To complete the picture I took similar series of test photographs using my 90mm lenses (Summicron Ib, Summarit, and Elmar) from their maximum apertures to f/5.6. The Elmar was focussed using the lens head + OUAGO (aka 16467) mounted on a Visoflex III for no better reason than it avoided dismantling the set up. The last time I posted a series of photographs in the forum they appeared in random order; I'm hoping for better luck this time! Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/214723-help-with-85cm-summarex-use-with-m9/?do=findComment&comment=2443211'>More sharing options...
Orient XI Posted October 16, 2013 Share #9 Posted October 16, 2013 Next installment Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/214723-help-with-85cm-summarex-use-with-m9/?do=findComment&comment=2443215'>More sharing options...
jankap Posted October 16, 2013 Share #10 Posted October 16, 2013 Hello,Note that my lens is m39 version and I use "both" 50-75 and 28-90 adapters. My question is there another special Adapter for use with that lens? Sonny I forgot to answer this question. The frames in the M-cameras are hardwired. In the lens barrel (in your case in the adapter) there is a bar, that links to the frame changer. There are 3 pairs of frames: 50-75, 28-90 and 35-135. Other frames do not exist, no 85mm and no 40mm. If you use the 75mm frame for the 85mm your pictures will be cropped (about 12%), using the 90mm frame your pictures will show more than the frame (about 5%). The important parameter of your adapter regarding focus is the thickness (1mm). If the focus at infinity is OK, the adapter is OK. I fear, your Summarex has to be adjusted. In the mouth of the camera is a small wheel and your lens moves this wheel in or out, as you change the distance. Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitz Posted October 16, 2013 Share #11 Posted October 16, 2013 The Summarex was not the sharpest lens in the Leitz line-up at that time. It in no way compares to a Summicron. The fastest way to be sure of the lens is to take it to a camera repair shop with a collimator. The focus check only takes a few minutes. The price is normally free, but the repair man does expect to get the repair if the lens needs adjustment. This lens is well worth the cost to put it back in adjustment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted October 17, 2013 Share #12 Posted October 17, 2013 Try a focus bracket with the 85 and see if it improves. Old lenses tend to haze up and that ruins the image. If this a haze problem, it is well advanced. screw to M adapter that are off brands can be wrong thickness and thus throw off focus. While not the best lens, you is not producing proper results. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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